I think the religious values are an interesting factor. Of course there is a lot wrong with it especially if it becomes bigoted, but after the travelling parts of the west of the USA for a month I have to say of all fastfood joints the best food an service was at Chick-Fil-A, the second best was at In-N-Out. Both chains are privately owned by religious christian families.
The other places also franchise locations so there is another middleman looking to make money, which of course has to come from food quality either by way of ingredients or lower employee pay.
I think it comes down to continuity of leadership style. A public company spends some of its attention engaging in a popularity contest on Wall St, a private company can focus solely and entirely on Main St.
You can have the same folks, with the same obsessions, for a long time, unwilling to change the formula.
They're into the low thousands. That's certainly much smaller than McDonalds, but it's large enough that I'd expect similar operational challenges to have kicked in - there's still going to be multiple layers of indirection between individual store management and any central leadership effort to get them in line.
Chick-Fil-A’s employees are very much better than all other fast food employees, even though probably 90% that I see are teenagers.
Comparing them to McDonalds or Wendy’s or others is like comparing a bee hive to a bunch of kids browsing their phones.
I thought they must pay more, but they pay about the same, according to a friend who manages one. I would like to see a good comparison as how they get such good employees, having a guaranteed weekend day off seems like a plus. Other than that, maybe their ownership structure and philosophy makes a difference.
When I grew up in the 90s and 00s, I think McD/Burger King/Wendy’s/Subway and similar fast food joints all dropped their quality to animal feed levels to try and outcompete each other on low price.
I haven’t and still won’t eat at those places, but that allowed Chipotle/Chick Fil A/other higher priced places to move in that offered edible food (at least in the areas that had people who could afford it).
Yep, food quality is a big thing that distinguishes Chickfila from the rest. Burger King because inedible many years ago, and McD, Wendy’s, Subway while not as bad as Burger King still hovers around that level and are significantly worse than Chickfila.
Chick-Fil-A hires middle class high school kids from more affluent areas who aren't burnt out on years of work in a dead end fast food job. I don't have evidence but I bet significantly more of their employees end up leaving fast food for higher paying (probably salary) jobs after a few years. I also bet they have more true part time employees compared to other chains which uses predatory tactics to keep you below the full time threshold and benefits.
I bet that’s part of it. I live in the burbs and all the other places are also full of teens (McDonald’s, Burger King, Wendy’s, Popeyes, etc). Those places seem like their teens suck a lot more (don’t know my order, don’t know their menu, don’t smile, don’t say “my pleasure,” don’t make me feel like they care if I exist).
When I visit locations downtown the employees seem to be much more full adults, but same character differences.
> The chain subsequently reversed their stance on the matter and actually redeemed themselves on social media.
“The matter” referred to here is their stance on LGBT rights, and they “actually redeemed themselves”?
What does that mean? That they now have a positive view in the LGBT community? That > 30M people in the US who said they boycotted them have come around?
There’s a entire 3000 word Wiki entry on what the author breezes past:
They dropped funding for directly anti-LGBT groups.
"30M non-customers" (extrapolated from a telephone survey) claiming to be willing to boycott based on a fad is not substantial.
As your linked article shows, the controversy generated massive free publicity and revenue increases for CfA.
It's similar to the angry conservatives who are saying they'll stop watching the NFL because they are becoming more permissive of kneeling and the like. The NFL will continue making money hand over fist, and if not for the pandemic, they'd likely still fill stadiums every Sunday.
So that everyone knows what you're talking about, the "anti LGBT" groups included the Fellowship for Christian Athletes (which exists in most every high school) and the Salvation Army.
Well extrapolate that situation and imagine every business refused to hire you. That’s the situation these “woke” people are trying to avoid to help your lazy, ungrateful butt.
> that’s the situation these “woke” people are trying to avoid
No - LGBT rights are secured through sustained organization enacted through the democratic process.
Berating people over a freaking chicken sandwich isn't going to enact LGBT rights. This type of activism is a pernicious purity cult that accomplishes little and directs energy that could be used for advancing real causes into petty shaming and conspicuous consumption.
I agree 100% with your core point though - we need neutral corporatios that don't pick sides, races, ethnic groups, preferential treatement, politics, etc.
That also includes making a BLM, LGBT, etc. statement forcefully as some ultra-left-wing interest groups want.
For example, if a company does not make a BLM supporting statement, that should not mean they're racist. They just don't want to get into the mess and I respect that.
The problem is on both sides. Extreme-left and Extreme-right. On HN (and largely all left wing media), we tend to ignore wrongdoings and insane tactics of the former (blindfully), whilst bashing the latter (rightfully, I don't oppose).
>That’s the situation these “woke” people are trying to avoid to help your lazy, ungrateful butt.
That's basically the crux of this whole absurd "movement." People bending over backward to maintain a high level of outrage on behalf of some other person who hasn't even asked for your help. Trying to bully or silence other people into adhering to whatever the flavor of the month is. Then you move on to your next outrage fix.
And the end result is unequivocally negative. Donald Trump is absolute proof of the absurd stupidity and failure of this "movement."
But keep fighting the good fight. The far right needs you more than you could possibly imagine.
Whoa. Personal attacks are not cool, and neither is taking HN threads further into flamewar. I realize the GP was provocative and also on the flamebait side, but the site guidelines ask you not to take the bait: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html — and certainly not to post like this.
I totally agree it feels like there is a rise of a new morality. The only problem is it doesn't have the pressure valve of repentance and forgiveness like previous Judeo-Christian religions, so once a sin is committed the only choice is excommunication. Joyless is exactly the right term for this sort of social fabric.
We need neutral corporations that don't pick a stance against/for ethinic groups.
Why do right-wingers (and left-wingers) want corporations to pick sides? They should just operate within the law, hire truthfully regardless of race and only based on credentials, treat everyone equally and do their thing. I don't understand why Chick-fil-A openly wants to promote and donate anti-LGBT groups. What's that to do with their core business? It brings no benefit.
I find this deeply offensive and probably illegal depending on how they hire their workers.
Companies and corporations should be absolutely neutral and operate within the bounds of law. The focus of everyone should be in changing laws if they're against it.
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[ 1.5 ms ] story [ 55.0 ms ] threadYou can have the same folks, with the same obsessions, for a long time, unwilling to change the formula.
Comparing them to McDonalds or Wendy’s or others is like comparing a bee hive to a bunch of kids browsing their phones.
I thought they must pay more, but they pay about the same, according to a friend who manages one. I would like to see a good comparison as how they get such good employees, having a guaranteed weekend day off seems like a plus. Other than that, maybe their ownership structure and philosophy makes a difference.
The only difference I've noticed is the CfA employees are more fake-perky and managers are more nitpicky.
CfA is a bit like Apple -- a smaller company that only operates in high-revenue areas so can spend more on the offering.
I haven’t and still won’t eat at those places, but that allowed Chipotle/Chick Fil A/other higher priced places to move in that offered edible food (at least in the areas that had people who could afford it).
When I visit locations downtown the employees seem to be much more full adults, but same character differences.
Make of that what you will.
Edit: I should note, these employees were all between the ages of 19-25.
Think that has an effect on the workspace?
“The matter” referred to here is their stance on LGBT rights, and they “actually redeemed themselves”?
What does that mean? That they now have a positive view in the LGBT community? That > 30M people in the US who said they boycotted them have come around?
There’s a entire 3000 word Wiki entry on what the author breezes past:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick-fil-A_and_LGBT_people
"30M non-customers" (extrapolated from a telephone survey) claiming to be willing to boycott based on a fad is not substantial. As your linked article shows, the controversy generated massive free publicity and revenue increases for CfA.
Because they make delicious food. It's a fast food joint.
I'm so done with all the joyless, puritanical woke-scolds.
Whether I decide to purchase and eat a freaking chicken sandwich and fries is not a matter of LGBT rights!
I've eaten chick-fil-a and bought goya for years...and will continue doing so in spite of pretty much any controversy.
Because otherwise life is joyless if every consumer decision I make is at the mercy of some ever-changing cult-like extreme moral binary.
No - LGBT rights are secured through sustained organization enacted through the democratic process.
Berating people over a freaking chicken sandwich isn't going to enact LGBT rights. This type of activism is a pernicious purity cult that accomplishes little and directs energy that could be used for advancing real causes into petty shaming and conspicuous consumption.
I agree 100% with your core point though - we need neutral corporatios that don't pick sides, races, ethnic groups, preferential treatement, politics, etc.
That also includes making a BLM, LGBT, etc. statement forcefully as some ultra-left-wing interest groups want.
For example, if a company does not make a BLM supporting statement, that should not mean they're racist. They just don't want to get into the mess and I respect that.
The problem is on both sides. Extreme-left and Extreme-right. On HN (and largely all left wing media), we tend to ignore wrongdoings and insane tactics of the former (blindfully), whilst bashing the latter (rightfully, I don't oppose).
That's basically the crux of this whole absurd "movement." People bending over backward to maintain a high level of outrage on behalf of some other person who hasn't even asked for your help. Trying to bully or silence other people into adhering to whatever the flavor of the month is. Then you move on to your next outrage fix.
And the end result is unequivocally negative. Donald Trump is absolute proof of the absurd stupidity and failure of this "movement."
But keep fighting the good fight. The far right needs you more than you could possibly imagine.
Why do right-wingers (and left-wingers) want corporations to pick sides? They should just operate within the law, hire truthfully regardless of race and only based on credentials, treat everyone equally and do their thing. I don't understand why Chick-fil-A openly wants to promote and donate anti-LGBT groups. What's that to do with their core business? It brings no benefit.
I've seen businesses in Berkeley, CA like this one: https://www.shopwomenmade.com/
I find this deeply offensive and probably illegal depending on how they hire their workers.
Companies and corporations should be absolutely neutral and operate within the bounds of law. The focus of everyone should be in changing laws if they're against it.