Many of us were old enough to have lived during a time where smartphones did not exist. My thoughts are... it is nice to have access to a great pocket-sized camera and communication device, though it is also nice to turn it off once in a while.
Exactly so. Though life was more annoying without a mobile phone for example (failed rendezvouz?) it happened. It's not helpful to demonise the tech rather than managing it and yourself candidly IMHO.
> Though life was more annoying without a mobile phone
I disagree. My feeling is that life was much better, more "human" without mobile phones. I hate how everyone walks around staring down at their phones instead of looking at the world. It's like an addiction. It reminds me of the ST:TNG episode "The Game". People don't even acknowledge each other's existence anymore.
Face-to-face interactions (pre-pandemic) ceased to exist, attention spans dropped precipitously, laziness increased (I can't be bothered to go out anywhere when I can have it delivered to my door by a "gig worker".) It's truly become a dystopia. If you weren't alive or an adult in the years before smartphones, you may not realize what a dystopia this is in comparison. I'm not even idolizing the past — there were certainly plenty of problems in the past — but this is even worse, and none of the past problems were solved either.
One of the unacknowledged advantages of desktops computers is that you can't take them everywhere. You have to leave desktop computers on the desktop. You eventually have to get up, get away from the computer, and interact with other humans in person. I also feel that mobile phones decrease personal independence. The smartphone becomes a "crutch" that you don't know how to live without. You can't even function adequately without a smartphone in your hand or pocket.
When you read and reply to people's comments on the internet, aren't you acknowledging their existence? When you browse the work that they created aren't you looking at the world?
I'm afraid you're missing the point. When I say people don't acknowledge each other's existence, I mean people literally within a few feet/meters of each other, who could easily see and/or speak with each other if they made even the bare minimum of effort.
When another person is in your physical presence, it's almost like you're deliberately ignoring them when your eyes are glued down on the smartphone. It's personal rudeness, a diss. "You're not even worth raising my head and saying hi."
The people on the phone are effectively only a few centimetres away, nevermind feet. So shouldn't it be even more rude to ignore internet messages?
The internet isn't some kind of fake virtual reality... it is just a communication tool. The draw to use it is created by real people sharing real ideas. I think this idea that people who are physically closer to you deserve more of your attention is misguided.
> shouldn't it be even more rude to ignore internet messages?
Who says you have to ignore internet messages? It took you a half hour to reply to my comment, and that's fine. That leaves plenty of time to acknowledge a person IRL.
The internet will still be there when we get home from being outside. That's one of the advantages of the internet.
A phone is just a computer, just like any other device. What do you have specifically against it? You can just keep it turned off except when you need to use it for 2FA.
This will depend on the solution - a common Enterprise solution, RSA SecureID SoftToken, includes the ability to IMEI lock the app on the user (I am not sure if this is required or optional, I'm an end-user not RSA admin) to ensure it only runs on company provisioned mobiles (many companies use further solutions such as MobileIron on all provisioned devices for fleet management).
It makes me so mad that companies require phones for MFA. I get distracted by my phone easily and when I tried switching to a yubikey, they told me that my business case for switching wasn't good enough. So frustrating
Never had one, never will. My wife has, my kids too, I don't. Clients get hold of me via e-mail or IM, family through landline. If I am unavailable immediately then tough luck, I love not be at anybody's finger tips if I go for a stroll in a park, for example.
Problem is if you have one then at least one person becomes important enough to "make you", the boss / a family member / a friend you feel you're in debt etc. I see that plenty around me. Pretty sure if I'd have one that person would become my wife for me. Don't get me wrong, I love my wife but I also love the freedom of not being at her disposal 24/7.
I leave my phone at home, or off when I want to, but the single biggest improvement of privacy and peace comes from "downtime" (iOS > settings > Screentime > Downtime). From 20:00 till 06:00 I will not receive any messages from apps.
On top of that "do not disturb" (iOS > settings > Do not disturb) hits at 20:00 and ends at 07:00 where no one can call me (except for those who are in my favourites).
I grew up without one, but came in fully to the working world of 'always on'.
It took me 6 months of 'non corporate work' to get used to the idea of not receiving emails all the time.
It becomes part of your identity and you feel lost without it.
But then you regain something lost - peace of mind.
I can't even imagine what it means to grow up 'fully connected' - sometimes I think that young people must be excessively neurotic, and would be afraid of 'quiet' and think that what was normal for all of human history is now, in one generation - 'bizarre'.
I recommend getting an Android and not using apps. Don't have notifications, but if you want to check something you can.
And it will take 6 months to get used to, but afterwards, you might not be able to fathom going back to the noise.
I see what you are saying, but the notification is actually a big deal. The notification is the 'trigger' to set us off to 'read the thing' which gives us our little dopamine hit. It's hard to resist, and it takes up a lot of mental noise.
Even the possibility of getting notifications is stressfull.
The difference between having a phone on, where people can contact you - vs - phone dead or 'no phone' is definitely noticeable. 'Knowing you don't have to check' is an extra level of peace.
it seems that if i shut my mouth its all fine but as soon as its time for a conversation there is constant disruption and derailment from the continuity of a conversation, effect is a shallow conversation or series of mini conversations made of half phra [BRRING!! BRINNG!!] hey someone just liked a post from yesterday, what was that we were talking about.
Depends on your lifecycle. I honestly couldn't imagine living in a big city without map/taxi/metro apps. I love getting lost, but not on a daily basis.
My life improved measurably once I got a phone. Many events happen more or less spontaneously and people will message me in the moment if I want to join something. Since joining facebook and whatsapp I have become a much more social person (in real life).
I don't use facebook for posting, just for messaging. I don't install works apps (teams) on my phone, so if I get a notification, it's usually positive/meaningful one. I mute all group chats.
This is how I keep my phone a positive object in my life.
I did this intentionally for a few years about five years ago and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. The only reason i ended up getting a phone afterwards was to develop mobile software.
As i notice myself get too attached to my device i miss those peaceful years. At the very least leave it behind when you go on holiday if possible.
I want to try this once. But I'm so much into WhatsApp, Instagram. It will be kind of digital detox. I had deleted twitter and Facebook 6yrs back that was once of the best decision I had made. Now I'm kind of addicted to that Insta feed and Youtube feed. I will be deleting Insta account. But hope will come over the need of WhatsApp and other cool apps and ditch phone completely.
But if you suddenly need a document and you have been out for some work, and you don't have mobile to receive it ? This is the only thing I'm not able to cover it up. Rest if I ditch I can come over it.
> But if you suddenly need a document and you have been out for some work, and you don't have mobile to receive it ?
That’s an easy one: my personal phone = no work use whatsoever. And if they offer to pay for it (they won’t), then I’ll decline so it stays my phone rather than my work’s whistle.
My phone melted down last week and spent a long weekend without it. It was very refreshing, and tempted to stay phone-less, so kind of regret that I used the warranty and received a new one.
What a coincidence that I just wrote about the brief experience a few hours ago: https://ivanluque.com/unphoned/
They sold batteries on trains? I remember there used to be a pay phones on some German trains but they were using the analogue C network, which shut down in 2000.
I just gave in and made the switch to a smartphone. It's getting tough to find dumbphones that aren't limited to 3g, which Verizon (my carrier) is turning off that also have a QWERTY keyboard. If you can live with T9, you have a lot more options.
Last time I got a new phone (2015 or 2016), most of the QWERTY phones were just crappy or outdated smartphones. I found a slider with QWERTY that is apparently 3g only. Everybody hated the voice quality.
This time around, I gave in and got an iPhone SE. I hate the distraction, but I wasn't willing to live with T9 for texting.
I don't own a smartphone, and the main reason is that I don't want to spend all my day staring at screens. Thus, I have resisted the idea of buying one for more than a decade now. The thing is that I don't really need it. If it comes to maps, my car has an excellent GPS system. Music I don't need to listen to outdoors. E-mails and such well I have my PC and if I'm not at work what's the point of being bothered, it's not like I'm a medical doctor or anything remotely essential.
I own a Kindle for books, which helped a lot with my Internet addiction and the lack of focus, and for communication I have a dumb mobile phone with a battery that lasts for weeks.
Realistically speaking the only reason I'd buy a smartphone these days is for photos. Anything else is just fucking useless. I can't do work on a smartphone, and I don't even want to. I enjoy having time off of any electronic device because it helps my brain unwind and adds quality to my life.
Or just turn it onto airplane mode for most of the time. You get the benefit of having something with you to take notes, photos, videos, etc but none of the constant connection and availability anxiety.
What I did is disable all notifications and ringtones. Calls go to voicemail and if people leave a message I’ll call back on my own time, otherwise I won’t. Only my SO has audible ringtones and notifications so I know that if the phone rings it’s worth answering.
I don’t install apps if I can help it, I havE gotten rid of Facebook twitter etc a long time ago and will use the browser for the rest. If they go out of their way to make the browser experience shitty on mobile (Reddit, linked in), well, more power to them I’ll only use my computer with ad blocking instead.
And of course I’ll never install my works chat app on my phone, nor will they ever get my phone number.
But I do find having a smartphone is convenient. Maps at the tips of your fingers when you’re lost, calling places when you’re on the go and need to ask or change something, gps for the bicycle, transit pass for public transportation and trains, music on the go... it feels like by disabling all notifications, no social networks presence, and no native apps if I can help it, then I have the best of both worlds. Oh and nextdns.io for ad blocking on the iPhone, it works everywhere except in the YouTube app and for websites that inject google ads after the page has loaded (only a couple of websites as far as I’m concerned)
Maybe the rule should be: no phone while at home? Lock it on arrival or something. All the practical/non-attention-sucking benefits of phones happen outdoors I reckon
I downloaded maps for offline use but I hated it and really missed having decent navigation at the push of a small button in my hand.
For music I used a 2008 iPod video. I actually still prefer it when riding my motorcycle.
I was shocked at how much I still needed the iPad for MFA via google authenticator / Microsoft auth / Authy because the Yubikey I bought didn’t work with most sites. This was a couple years ago. YMMV.
I wish I’d blogged about it. I ended up going back to a cheap Android after a couple months of missing a decent camera then go frustrated with the speed of the phone and went to a pixel and then back to iPhone.
When I have been without a phone it’s demonstrated how much I really need one for the simplest things like a calendar, a timer, a flashlight, a camera. A lot of that a dumb phone can do. But navigation is the deal breaker.
That said I think $1000 phones is stupid. I am very happy with the new iPhone SE
If your goal is to take back your attention and stop being a slave to messages and notifications, you can always turn them off and uninstall just those apps. I've been running in 24/7 "do not disturb" mode for the last few years, and it's been a game changer. I use my device on my terms when I want to, not when other people or apps want my attention. All notifications are silent and do not light up my lock screen. All calls go directly to voicemail with no ring. My ring tone and message tones are set to silent audio files, in case I missed something. Any app that I find myself compulsively going into gets uninstalled.
Also, leaving Facebook about ten years ago and never picking up any of the alternatives was a critical step toward taking back my attention.
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[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 165 ms ] threadI disagree. My feeling is that life was much better, more "human" without mobile phones. I hate how everyone walks around staring down at their phones instead of looking at the world. It's like an addiction. It reminds me of the ST:TNG episode "The Game". People don't even acknowledge each other's existence anymore.
Face-to-face interactions (pre-pandemic) ceased to exist, attention spans dropped precipitously, laziness increased (I can't be bothered to go out anywhere when I can have it delivered to my door by a "gig worker".) It's truly become a dystopia. If you weren't alive or an adult in the years before smartphones, you may not realize what a dystopia this is in comparison. I'm not even idolizing the past — there were certainly plenty of problems in the past — but this is even worse, and none of the past problems were solved either.
One of the unacknowledged advantages of desktops computers is that you can't take them everywhere. You have to leave desktop computers on the desktop. You eventually have to get up, get away from the computer, and interact with other humans in person. I also feel that mobile phones decrease personal independence. The smartphone becomes a "crutch" that you don't know how to live without. You can't even function adequately without a smartphone in your hand or pocket.
When another person is in your physical presence, it's almost like you're deliberately ignoring them when your eyes are glued down on the smartphone. It's personal rudeness, a diss. "You're not even worth raising my head and saying hi."
The internet isn't some kind of fake virtual reality... it is just a communication tool. The draw to use it is created by real people sharing real ideas. I think this idea that people who are physically closer to you deserve more of your attention is misguided.
Who says you have to ignore internet messages? It took you a half hour to reply to my comment, and that's fine. That leaves plenty of time to acknowledge a person IRL.
The internet will still be there when we get home from being outside. That's one of the advantages of the internet.
> The internet will still be there when we get home from being outside
And won't the physical space outside still be there after you decide you're done talking on the internet?
It's impossible to overstate how useful GPS is.
That said, one could always get a dedicated GPS device instead of using a phone.
Maps are useful (and I think they're more useful in paper or schematic form optimized to particular use case), but GPS is really just a nice to have.
Obviously, that does not work for the doorlock.
A better idea is to just turn it on for 2FA, then turn it off again.
Other sibling mentioned IMEI pinning, but I assume the emulator can spoof IMEI.
I am all for a separate physical device, just not a phone.
On top of that "do not disturb" (iOS > settings > Do not disturb) hits at 20:00 and ends at 07:00 where no one can call me (except for those who are in my favourites).
So basically my phone is dead > 20:00 till 07:00.
Best of both worlds to me.
I have thought about porting my number to Twilio or similar, and having a stationary phonebooth that can send and receive mms messages, as well.
See: https://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/how_to...
It took me 6 months of 'non corporate work' to get used to the idea of not receiving emails all the time.
It becomes part of your identity and you feel lost without it.
But then you regain something lost - peace of mind.
I can't even imagine what it means to grow up 'fully connected' - sometimes I think that young people must be excessively neurotic, and would be afraid of 'quiet' and think that what was normal for all of human history is now, in one generation - 'bizarre'.
I recommend getting an Android and not using apps. Don't have notifications, but if you want to check something you can.
And it will take 6 months to get used to, but afterwards, you might not be able to fathom going back to the noise.
Even the possibility of getting notifications is stressfull.
The difference between having a phone on, where people can contact you - vs - phone dead or 'no phone' is definitely noticeable. 'Knowing you don't have to check' is an extra level of peace.
it seems that if i shut my mouth its all fine but as soon as its time for a conversation there is constant disruption and derailment from the continuity of a conversation, effect is a shallow conversation or series of mini conversations made of half phra [BRRING!! BRINNG!!] hey someone just liked a post from yesterday, what was that we were talking about.
It sucked.
Not being communicable where you were and having to depend on fixed places for communication (phone booths, etc) sucked.
Not being able to access some information quickly (maps, etc) sucked. Ok maybe sometimes it was fun, but it overall sucked.
So thanks but no thanks
You can always set your phone to "Do Not Disturb" or "Airplane Mode" if needed. Or, you know, not look at it immediately after getting a notification
You are now given more options regarding daily activity + safety which aren't obligatory.
I was recently thinking what was in my parents heads when I was lost in the mountain storm during regular ski period in 90s.
I don't use facebook for posting, just for messaging. I don't install works apps (teams) on my phone, so if I get a notification, it's usually positive/meaningful one. I mute all group chats.
This is how I keep my phone a positive object in my life.
As i notice myself get too attached to my device i miss those peaceful years. At the very least leave it behind when you go on holiday if possible.
But if you suddenly need a document and you have been out for some work, and you don't have mobile to receive it ? This is the only thing I'm not able to cover it up. Rest if I ditch I can come over it.
That’s an easy one: my personal phone = no work use whatsoever. And if they offer to pay for it (they won’t), then I’ll decline so it stays my phone rather than my work’s whistle.
Last time I got a new phone (2015 or 2016), most of the QWERTY phones were just crappy or outdated smartphones. I found a slider with QWERTY that is apparently 3g only. Everybody hated the voice quality.
This time around, I gave in and got an iPhone SE. I hate the distraction, but I wasn't willing to live with T9 for texting.
Good luck!
I own a Kindle for books, which helped a lot with my Internet addiction and the lack of focus, and for communication I have a dumb mobile phone with a battery that lasts for weeks.
Realistically speaking the only reason I'd buy a smartphone these days is for photos. Anything else is just fucking useless. I can't do work on a smartphone, and I don't even want to. I enjoy having time off of any electronic device because it helps my brain unwind and adds quality to my life.
What I did is disable all notifications and ringtones. Calls go to voicemail and if people leave a message I’ll call back on my own time, otherwise I won’t. Only my SO has audible ringtones and notifications so I know that if the phone rings it’s worth answering.
I don’t install apps if I can help it, I havE gotten rid of Facebook twitter etc a long time ago and will use the browser for the rest. If they go out of their way to make the browser experience shitty on mobile (Reddit, linked in), well, more power to them I’ll only use my computer with ad blocking instead.
And of course I’ll never install my works chat app on my phone, nor will they ever get my phone number.
But I do find having a smartphone is convenient. Maps at the tips of your fingers when you’re lost, calling places when you’re on the go and need to ask or change something, gps for the bicycle, transit pass for public transportation and trains, music on the go... it feels like by disabling all notifications, no social networks presence, and no native apps if I can help it, then I have the best of both worlds. Oh and nextdns.io for ad blocking on the iPhone, it works everywhere except in the YouTube app and for websites that inject google ads after the page has loaded (only a couple of websites as far as I’m concerned)
I downloaded maps for offline use but I hated it and really missed having decent navigation at the push of a small button in my hand.
For music I used a 2008 iPod video. I actually still prefer it when riding my motorcycle.
I was shocked at how much I still needed the iPad for MFA via google authenticator / Microsoft auth / Authy because the Yubikey I bought didn’t work with most sites. This was a couple years ago. YMMV.
I wish I’d blogged about it. I ended up going back to a cheap Android after a couple months of missing a decent camera then go frustrated with the speed of the phone and went to a pixel and then back to iPhone.
When I have been without a phone it’s demonstrated how much I really need one for the simplest things like a calendar, a timer, a flashlight, a camera. A lot of that a dumb phone can do. But navigation is the deal breaker.
That said I think $1000 phones is stupid. I am very happy with the new iPhone SE
Also, leaving Facebook about ten years ago and never picking up any of the alternatives was a critical step toward taking back my attention.