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Airbnb REQUIRES recording you call but if you want to record they REFUSE call

68 points by visualsuccess ↗ HN
Called Airbnb today and they said they are REQUIRED to record me (wont talk to me without it) and will NOT allow me to record them (they will hang up if you try)? Totally unfair, just like their service, VRBO anyone?

29 comments

[ 3.5 ms ] story [ 77.2 ms ] thread
elmerfud
IANAL while this does vary by jurisdiction, it's my understanding that even in two party states the consent is given to record the call and not consent as to which party is doing the recording. So if they ask and you agree, you can also record without telling them because consent has been granted.
SilasX
Nitpick: I think the reasoning -- in jurisdictions where this applies -- is that the presence of a third party listener removes the expectation of privacy (for both parties) and makes recording by either party legal, not that it counts as consent per se.
gsk22
Are you in a two-party consent state [0]? If not, you can legally record the conversation without informing them. I record all phone interactions with corporations by default.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_call_recording_laws#...

cpach
Do you have an Android phone? Call recording is one of the few features that I miss on iPhone.
smnrchrds
Newer Android versions have limited access to call audio similar to iPhone.
cpach
Oh. Does anyone know why they did this?
zackees
If the corporation notifies you that you are being recorded, then that is also the consent you need to record them. Why do you need to give them notice? They already notified you.

Where is it in law that stipulates that it matters who's doing the recording?

MichaelZuo
This is an interesting point, some jurisdictions may indeed only require the notification in an ambiguous way, so regardless of whether it’s 2 way recording or 1 way it may be covered.

Though this raises the question of whether companies that don’t accept 2 way recording but mandate 1 way recordings to their advantage are companies you should do business with.

randomgoose
How do you record the calls automatically? Do you have some app or plugin to do this conveniently?
gsk22
I just use an Android call recording app. I enable it before I call customer support lines, and leave it off otherwise.
smnrchrds
Which app, and what Android version? Do you use a rooted device? The current Android version disabled access to call audio and broke all apps. Have they re-enabled them since?
pontifier
I'm having huge problems with this right now. I was using an automatic call recorder, but my phone camera broke, and my carrier was limiting features due to the age of the phone. I broke down and upgraded. Big mistake! Call recording was utterly broken and will not work on that phone. Bought a different phone the next day... also broken. Can't seem to root either one. I'm out about $400 on this whole ordeal, and still can't record my calls again. I'm about to send Google the bill for these phones and the 12+ hours of my time that's been wasted because apparently Google has made call recording impossible on android 9 and 10.
Spooky23
Make sure to ask the agent where they are sitting.
mvidal01
How do they know if they are being recorded?
o-__-o
Welcome to my concern with current day zoom conferences. I act like I’m on CNBC every time I get on a zoom call
empeyot
They don't. But you'll have trouble to admit possession of a recorded call unless you're sure you legally obtained it. So unless you merely use it for your private training purposes its of limited value.
caseyscottmckay
Every time someone tells me they are recording my call for {quality, customer care, whatever} purposes, I tell them I'm also recording the call and pause to start recording the call. I get hung up on a lot.
Cerium
Often it is a robot that says that, do the robots hang up or do you wait for a human?
caseyscottmckay
No I let the robot says it's spiel, then, after the human connects, I inform the human I am also recording the call.
pxtail
No worries, in new versions of Android google already decided that call recording is not something that common folk is allowed to do.
LexGray
When you say you want to record you are asking for a legal document. Wanting low wage ill trained employees who have difficulties communicating to say things in a way that passes muster for a legal department is expecting a lot of a phone call. I’d blame a litigious society for preventing your record keeping.
empeyot
What follows works 99% of the times with airbnb:

Customer service representative: "For training purposes this call is being recorded. Are you okay with it?"

Airbnb member: "Well, you know if you feel comfortable that we record this call for quality purposes, I'm totally fine with it, no worries."

CSR:"Haha, sure I am. I just have to ask, you know."

AM: "Sure, me too, it's important to me that you're comfortable with it, too. So... here's the issue why I'm calling..."

dmarlow
Instead of saying "we record this call", why not just replace it with "this call is being recorded"?

Seems that little bit more sneaky!

EmilioMartinez
I always wondered, given how disingenuous they are by saying "training purposes", doesn't that weight in in any way during a legal process?

You'd still have yourself to blame if you naively believe everyone, but is it legal to present evidence obtained in bad faith? Can you blatantly lie and say the recording is automatically deleted after a minute, and still present it in a court of law?

Spooky23
It’s not reasonable to list every possible use. Any call center routinely uses call data to train and evaluate agents.
Witeshadow
One way to record calls is to setup a voip number that you can call and put them on three way conference. Voip.ms makes this easy, I've also done it with Twilio. I also live in a 1 party consent state.
jtsiskin
Could you not just flip on your devices screen recorder?
02020202
i never talk when someone records me. there is never a positive outcome of such call. if they want some kind of proof, they can send me an email. when they record you you often agree to things you would normally not or changed your mind later on, since you have no time to think about it. they know what they are doing. so never, ever, be part of such calls. use email, think before replying and you're good.