HN Explorer

Ask HN: Should HN be apolitical in the current environment?

4 points by biolurker1 ↗ HN
“maybe I’ll sign an executive order that you cannot have him(Biden) as your president.” Trump 20/9/2020.

Until when turning a blind eye is prudent? This is hopefully one of the most educated and forward looking places online. Should bright minds discuss and try to avert disasters? This was said from the head of the most powerful nuclear power. It's an outright anti-democratic statement.

22 comments

[ 1.7 ms ] story [ 50.2 ms ] thread
JMTQp8lwXL
There is no doubt there are questions we should be asking about the integrity of our democratic institutions. However, the guidelines are pretty clear about HN not being a political soapbox. The retort might be, but threats to democracy aren't political soapboxing, and I'd tend to agree-- the existence of free speech allows a place like HN to flourish. But there are many, many avenues for having these sorts of discussions with intellectuals, outside of HN.
chrisco255
Trump said that clearly as a joke. I watched the rally and it should still be ok to make jokes, last time I checked.
biolurker1
What's the limit of a joke? Putin saying he will Tsar bomb NY would qualify as a joke, if he said that smiling?
krapp
It doesn't matter. If Trump signed such an order, it wouldn't do anything - executive orders aren't laws. Doubtless Trump sees himself as America's Putin, but he isn't.

Trump is a narcissistic, bloviating, venal ass, and everyone, including his allies, are well aware of it by now. Stop being distracted by the things he says that don't matter and focus on the things he does that do. Trump's militant response to protestors (and its disturbing amount of public support), his actions against WeChat and TikTok and threats against companies he feels personally slighted by, his stacking the Supreme Court, etc. That stuff matters. This doesn't.

biolurker1
So you agree with the topic title but not my particular example?
krapp
Honestly, given the size and diversity of HN's userbase, I think the title is too broad to have any meaningful answer.

I have to echo kkoncevicius' comment above - there are worthwhile political discussions to be had on HN, and those shouldn't be caegorically off topic, but this isn't one of them.

And either way, this is a discussion forum, and what happens here is diversion, not action. If your goal is actual political change, then people should get out and vote, and get more involved in civics and local politics. Trump was elected because a fraction of eligible voters (itself a fraction of the total population) bothered to show up, and the solution to people like Trump is an educated and involved electorate who actually cares to hold politicians to a minimal standard.

chrisco255
I'm a highly educated and highly intelligent Trump supporter. It's incredibly offensive and condescending that people assume that Trump supporters are ill-informed. The other candidate can barely piece together a sentence reading from a teleprompter. He's 25 years past his prime and he wasn't that great in his prime. I'll take continued peace in the middle east, pro American trade deals, law and order, first and second amendment rights. Over half the country leans conservative.
biolurker1
If you are highly intelligent you can get factual data that your president is lying actively and has lied and ditortd truth in thousands of cases. This has nothing to do with the other candidate. The argument suffices on its own. So it's either you are misinformed or your education and intelligence are somewhat relative or that you like Liars. These are the only three choices in this context.
chrisco255
I followed the three years of the so-called investigation that had to do with Trump's alleged links to Russia. That turned out to be a complete fraud perpetrated by the DNC and their cronies in the FBI and the CIA. Let that sink in. The DNC literally made up an accusation about a duly elected president, the Obama administration used that lie to conduct illegal spying activity on the president, and then worked up the whole nation about this lie for THREE YEARS. Then they wiped their phone records to cover their bullshit: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/sep/11/robert-muel...

There are few things more dangerous for democracy than using the police power of the government to go after your political opponents. That is corruption of the highest order. It's toxic, it's dangerous, and it will fucking destroy this country. And the number of people that are still completely ignorant of this travesty is astounding. Yet that's the world we live in. The media has devolved into a completely partisan shitshow.

You're sadly misinformed by yellow journalism. I will continue to proudly support President Trump. I'm pro-peace, pro-2A, pro free speech, pro law and order, pro life, pro-energy, pro-prosperity, etc. I don't very much like crime and anarchy and ruin and corruption and cronyism. Looking at Democrat run debacles like Portland, Seattle, Chicago, and NYC, you really still think they deserve power? I don't think so. And neither does the sane half of the country.

Biden has had 45 years in the highest offices in Washington. He was corrupt before he was senile.

biolurker1
But it's factual that Trump has make false statements thousands of times. Do you deny that?

Also what does this have to do with Trump being undemocratic?

P.S you forgot pro environnement since Trump abolished all treaties. Good luck to us.

born_a_skeptic
Politicians lie, so get over it. Trump just isn't as good as the others because 1) he doesn't give a fuck and 2) they've had more practice. And honestly, I don't care if what he says isn’t accurate all the time. Nobody is accurate 100% of the time.

I care that he is doing what is best for the United States and based on his track record, for the most part I think he is.

[deleted]
(comment deleted)
DenisM
I see that you have chosen to ignore the part about "peace in the middle east, pro American trade deals, law and order, first and second amendment rights", and instead double-down on attacking the intelligence of your opponent.

This isn't great optics, not for you and not for your allies.

chrisco255
Before he joked about Biden's mental condition, he signed an executive order saying it was ok to joke about Biden's mental condition, so he's in the clear, from a legal perspective.
spicyramen
That was a joke, I watched his rally. Why take jokes so seriously? And yes this is about tech not political opinions, anyways living in SV, you can't be conservative, and is just an echo chamber, so yes let's keep this apolitical and talk about tech, there are other forums to discuss politics
biolurker1
Until one day SV is part of an authoritarian regime that the President took over as he specifically said has the power to do so? Would you dismiss jokes from other such présidents before they assumed total power? That's naive at least
KKPMW
Real threats and serious political discussions have their place, but this is just political theatre before the upcoming election.

> This is hopefully one of the most educated and forward looking places online.

If a person would think this remark about executive order was made as a threat, or that it has a real possibility of passing, or even if the current president is serious about acting on it, I would subconsciously exclude that person from the "one of the most educated" group.

lostlogin
> but this is just political theatre before the upcoming election.

If the option was there for the taking, would he do it?

JMTQp8lwXL
I disagree with the assertion that characterizing attacks on democratic institutions is a form of political theatre. It is similar to classifying them as 'jokes' (as has been done in other comments): it ignores the context in which the statement was made in a somewhat myopic way. I understand people like the President because he will "tell it like it is", which might mean using simple language when engaging in foreign policy, or having uncommon views on public policy. His attacks are credible, unfortunately. Courts have ruled against Trump's executive orders and actions much more frequently than past presidents, suggestive that his actions and words are quite intentional.
erentz
I sympathize with what you’re saying. There are points at which actively avoiding politics is being complicit with what is happening. But I think to understand that people need to have more interest in history, and really have strong democratic values. If people don’t and won’t then they will just continue to rationalize and find excuses for everything while the pot slowly continues to boil. Too many people seem think that democracies end and authoritarian regimes happen in big/quick and obvious events. Too many people value power more than democracy and think power by any means will only hurt their “enemies.” So many ignore or foolishly support the slide into authoritarianism. The situation here in the US is complex with so many factors at play, and not all of it is unique. There seems to have been a surge in authoritarian sentiment in many countries over the past decade. To ignore it is peril IMO. But I don’t know how HN could be the place to address this. It would require strong moderation. It would require HN (the community) to first even agree that we have a problem.
poormystic
If you feel that the power of democracy is insufficient to assure you of your safety in speaking freely you might conclude that the democracy is a sham and further that you might be safest keeping your mouth shut. What motivates people to seek public justice? Is justice more important to you than self-interest? If your values drive you to publicly attack injustice despite your personal interests then attacking injustice is what you must do. Yours is a question you could answer by referring to the values by which you live. Those who would serve Justice often exhibit great courage, while, perhaps, those who do not respond to the call gain wealth at the cost of self-disgust.