It's still very relevant, though, and it's actually an interesting data point that after 1.5 years the situation hasn't changed much.
I have very few devices with USB-C connectors, and I have to carry a "dongle bag" with me.
And I'm actually happy that so few devices use USB-C, because if they all did, I would only be able to connect 3 of them to my MacBook Pro, because there are no decent USB-C hubs available.
I'm also fighting a losing battle with the stupid headphone jack dongles. I would have bought one for every headphone that I have, but I actually need TWO, because I switch between an iPhone and an iPad Pro. Those two dongles look identical and I can't count the number of times I ended up away from home with the wrong one. No end of frustration.
I don't get it. Why a separate dongle for everything?
I bought a U$50,-- USB-C expander with pass-through charging for MicroSD, 2x USB-A and HDMI. Done. Cheaper than a 2 meter Lightning cable in some places!
I looked into my dongle bag and it contains: a USB-C expander thingy like you described, but with one USB-A. A hub with 4xUSB-A and a USB-C plug. A thumbdrive with both USB-A and USB-C. Two headphone dongles, one for Lightning and one for USB-C. A USB-C to DisplayPort cable for connecting an external monitor. A USB-C-to-C short cable for connecting an external SSD drive, as well as USB-A-to-C adapter for it, for when I have to connect it to a USB-A system. A USB-C to Ethernet adapter. Two tiny C-to-A adapters.
In other words, USB-C has added zero value for me, and created a need for plenty of new cables, dongles, and adapters/expanders. Relevant: https://xkcd.com/927/
If my MacBook Pro had HDMI, 2xUSB-A and an SD Card slot, and if phones/ipads had headphone jacks, I could cut the size of the dongle bag by 3/4 at least.
On my MacBook Pro 2015 I would have needed the dual thumb drive and SSD cables (unless I wanted to use the faster TB2 port, then I needed a third cable), an Ethernet dongle and still some converters for the Lightning EarPods. But disk speeds would be lower and my power cable wouldn’t be universal.
I do miss HDMI as well. I have an adapter somewhere but I forget about it until I need it
I think Apple is trying to do the "right thing", which is a future entirely of wireless devices, save for power, mostly.
The problem (well, one of them) is not everyone wants BT headphones (and AirPods specifically) or some kind of transparent auto-magic network/cloud storage, not every device is suited to wireless connectivity, and there's a long, long tail of existing devices no one wants to re-buy. It's not the floppy drive.
And your phone and headphones can be charged wirelessly. We are moving toward a world where the only wire you need is for laptop power. I guarantee by 2030 we're going to look back at all of our dongles of today and laugh!
yeah, they are also presumably counting on battery technology doing the Moore's Law thing. I didn't say it was a _great_ idea, just guessing at what their vision is.
The dongle problem is something that's mostly gone away for me. In my home office, I have an Apple "USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter" that I attach to my laptop, and the USB A port is hooked up to a USB A hub. It lets me plug in one cable to attach to my setup. I also have the same adaptor in my bag when I'm working away from my desk. I've never really run into trouble connecting to anything. I really like this kind of setup, but my needs are pretty modest when it comes to the sorts of things I need to hook up.
My needs (or at least my wants) are not at all modest, and I wouldn't go back from USB-C without a really good incentive. With two cables plugged into my MacBook it gets:
Power
1 43" 4K display
1 27" 2160p display
Speakers out
Headphone amp out
Keyboard
Mouse
High quality webcam
SD card reader
Ethernet
8 spare USB ports, most of them USB3
Back in the before times when I travelled into offices for work I was able to sit down at any desk in the office and immediately get access to power, and at least one external display, again by plugging in two cables, and because as a company our IT department has standardised on laptops that support USB-C anybody can do the same, regardless of whether they're running Windows or Mac OS.
The transition period to everything supporting USB-C was a bit painful, but I absolutely wouldn't go back to have a hodgepodge of different connectors needed on my laptop.
The article seems to suggest macbooks no longer have headphone jacks? I still have a 2015 MacBook, but when I look at tech specs on the apple store, MacBook Air and Macbook Pro both seem to have 3.5mm headphone jacks?
Did they go away on some previous models, then come back?
Weird. I guess the article didn't say it explicitly, but that's how i interpreted this passage:
> And, of course, there's the headphone jack. Unless you're using the Mac Mini or an iMac, if you wanna connect something that isn't USB-C or Lightning, you're out of luck. Enter the dongle.
> In 2018, the best-selling Apple products at Best Buy were AirPods and the Lightning-to-3.5 mm dongle. Both of these products exist because Apple got rid of the headphone jack.
I guess you can/need to use a lightning-to-3.5mm dongle on an iPhone too, and that's all they meant, not macbooks? The "unless you are using the mac mini or an imac" surrounded on both sides by discussion of headphone jacks is kinda misleading.
Apple replaced ports that used to cost them pennies in components for dongles which they can sell to customers for upwards of $50, which can be lost, or which you buy multiples of so you can have one at home, in the office, etc.
Unlike previous times in Apple history where they went all-in on a new and not yet widely adopted bus (USB1, FireWire) IMHO this is purely about improving their margins. Remove existing functionality and charge customers more to return to the status quo.
Yep. Same reason why they removed their unit sales numbers from quarterly reports in 2018. Unit sales are down, so they need to pump revenue and profit through more goods and margin
> this is purely about improving their margins...charge customers more to return to the status quo.
This argument has never made much sense to me, if only because the amount of money we're talking about is, for Apple, vanishingly small. The Mac is just ~10% of Apple's revenue, of which the "dongle ecosystem" is surely no more than a fraction of a percent.
While admittedly not knowing much about how Apple works internally, I would find it easier to believe that they switched to USB-C just because it looks prettier than because they wanted to make an extra $20 million per year on dongle sales.
Because it's a great deal easier than replacing the logic board after the user ripped the Ethernet port out of it or filled the usb ports up with crap.
I repair used macs. The number 1 problem on all the pre-2012 MacBooks is damaged ports.
Not for nothing, all of these arguments were made when Apple switched from ADB to USB, to Firewire, from 30pin to lightning, and they're being recycled again for the switch to USB-C.
The answer to your question is that each one does something better than the last in terms of portability or data transfer.
My working assumption has always been that Apple makes decisions like this just because they can, frankly.
I would do the same thing if I had the same power to move markets that they do - no need to put up with legacies of the past when I can just force everyone to follow me toward whatever I consider the future to be.
USB provided device portability over ADB and higher transfer speeds, lightning doubled the data transfer rate available to any other device available in 2011 and stopped ports breaking due to 'fluff', firewire provided faster transfer speeds and networking features.
USB-C provides zero insertion force sockets, a single replacement for any plug of any kind from monitors to networking, 24 pins, and 40Gbps speeds.
Reliability. Speed. Adaptability. User convenience.
I'm not sure its purely about improving margins. A lot of people seem to complain about Apple removing the SD card slot, but I never used it despite regularly using SD cards and I'm happy it is gone. It would have been nice if Apple included an older USB port though as it doesn't seem as antiquated.
Counterpoint: Photography is my main hobby and I use the SD card on my MBP very often. When I go on trips I very much enjoy having less different pieces of hardware to carry, less things to lose.
One of the target markets of Macs and especially MBPs is "creatives". Photographers are a part of those. On the MBP 16" presentation page one of the first selling points is that it has a great screen with great colors. The example is a landscape photographer. Of course, you could directly plug the camera in the computer, or have some external card reader, but why bother with carrying more suff?
I agree with the others that thunderbolt 3 is great, and I sure look forward to only having usb-c connectors. On my work computer I love that (it's a pc though). Of course, there's the "right cable" situation, but I suppose that whatever peripheral I buy will have the right kind of cable for it to work. My external monitor does DP alternate mode + PD and the cable that came with works.
That sait, I would miss the magsafe plug, it's probably one of the reasons why my 7 yo mbp is still going strong. I also think they could have left a usb-a port or two, just like they didn't remove FW800 on the first generation unibody mbp.
I know it's heracy, but take a look at the surface book. Thunderbolt/usb-c (can daisy chain 2 monitors + PD), SD card, magnetic power cord or an amazing dock (same port), two USB-A ports, a pen and removable screen for drawing / retouching, available w/ 32gb of RAM and a 6gb graphics card.
Meh, I'm not one to throw the baby with the bathwater so all suggestions are welcome (my main external kb is MS sculpt). I was actually looking around at PCs some moths ago, when the mbp16 came out, and among them the surfaces. But I find Windows gets on my nerves pretty quickly and Linux support seemed sketchy last time I checked (2019). If I had to buy a pc, it would probably be a Lenovo X1E or something similar.
Anyway, my mbp is still powerful enough for my needs and works perfectly, so I'm not really in the market for a new PC (nor mac). I just like to more or less keep an eye on what happens, just in case.
Witness how hard it is to buy USB-C cables in an Apple store. Want a new iPhone cable to plug into your laptop, ah sorry we've only got usb-c but you can use adapter...
That's not the only reason. With Apple's almost monomaniacal emphasis on making everything as thin as possible the USB-C ports keep the port from limiting the thickness of the device.
I started a new job recently and got a MBP and iPhone, and the number of dongles I've needed is ridiculous. What's most insane is that I can't even use the earbuds that came with the iPhone with the computer. I'm sure there's a dongle for that.
Then there's the fact that a few days after I started using the Mac the right ports stopped working with the power cord to charge the machine. I had to do research the find the secret keyboard combination to reset the USB ports.
Although Apple's products are generally very good, they have no lack of features and designs that make absolutely no sense to me.
> Unlike previous times in Apple history where they went all-in on a new and not yet widely adopted bus (USB1, FireWire) IMHO this is purely about improving their margins.
I don't think that's the difference. I think the difference is that, the other times 3rd party companies made the switch to whatever Apple was pushing, and this time, they didn't. USB-A is good enough, and common enough, that all of these companies making keyboard and mice and whatever components, just didn't bother to switch. So, I don't think that this transition was different from Apple's perspective, I think it has just been a failure.
The inconsistency is the most puzzling thing to me. The MacBooks and iPads have all moved to USB-C but the AirPods Pro, a recently released product, is lightning.
However, I think the dongle situation is fairly overblown. You don’t have to use dongles or adapters unless you just seriously hate yourself. Get a USB-C hub and plug everything into the hub.
If you don't sit at a desk all day, it's remembering it that's the problem. Pre-covid I'd often want to plug into a big screen or projector in a meeting room without necessarily having planned to do so beforehand.
Built in HDMI was a huge advantage for me. With my MBP it's a problem, with my ThinkPad - not so much.
I take the "don't make me think" ethos pretty far in this regard. I keep everything (electronic) I could need for a work trip in my laptop bag. Phone and watch chargers, hubs, AC adapters, etc.
I actually prefer USB-C to having a handful of generic plugs. My travel hub has HDMI, DP, VGA, and ethernet. I would be obnoxious to have all those plugs on a laptop.
Typically when in my building at work I don't like to carry more than my laptop around. I feel safer in the knowledge that I can plug into any projector/big screen in any meeting room without needing a dongle.
"Oh, just give me five minutes while I run back to my desk and get my dongle" probably isn't going to cut it.
That's the main reason I use my ThinkPad over my MBP for work.
I have a Thinkpad and feel the same advantage as you. That said, the sooner conference rooms moves to all USB-C the better. That would deal with the problem of charging your laptop in a conference room as well.
I recently went looking for a USB-C hub and found very few options. Most of them are USB-A to USB-C, but I need USB-C to USB-C (multiple). There are just a handful of options on Amazon, some of which are crazy expensive.
It really is. I was salty about how early they went all-in on USB-C, but it turned out not to be much of a problem. Now it's pretty clear the whole Apple ecosystem is shifting there -- the Pro iPads were already there; now the new iPads introduced last week use it, too. I fully expect the new iPhones will be there, too -- and if not this year, then next.
(Now, when they do that, the same people will scream about Apple "changing ports AGAIN," because for some people Apple cannot do anything right.)
>Get a USB-C hub and plug everything into the hub.
This article is hyperbolic and angsty.
90% of users in Australia don’t have a need for a dongle, and for those that do, there is a dongle. My iMac at work has a dongle to attach a second monitor via hdmi. My iMac at home does not, I would buy a dongle if needed.
My AirPod pros are the best headphones I’ve ever had, would never go back to wired headphones, but if you’re an audiophile - there is a dongle for you.
If you use flash drive still, there’s a dongle, or a USB C flash drive. If you need 400 USB ports, there’s a dongle.
This doesn’t limit anyone, it’s just turning the devices into more slim lined machines with better IP ratings. 90% of people (made up statistic) are happy with this system, I’m sick of hearing these old codgers dream of the glory days when their thinkpad had 40 ports... buy a thinkpad then ya dangus, why would you buy a Tesla if I want to go rock crawling off road?
Most people complaining are those who actually like Apple devices but now have very less choice if they want to stay dongle free. People who buy thinkpads might mock not complain.
I got used to the dongles, I just use the threeway adapter (USB-A, charging, hdmi) and USB-c Ethernet card and it's enough for me.
I know that people here on HN love bulky machines with lots of ports, such as Thinkpads (especially older variants), but I love a small thin laptop, even if it has lower performance. Also, dongle situation allows me to mix and match which ports I want to actually use, rather than have all of them "just in case".
That's a different, and perfectly valid, choice. It's not my choice, however. I can't have my choice with Apple, which is why my personal machine is not a Mac.
I am a happy Apple customer, but I have one complaints: I was very disappointed that my new iPhone and AirPod Pro charging case don’t use USB-C. I would like to travel and use just one type of charger.
Well, the AirPods Pro come with a USB-C-to-Lightning cable. It's not perfect, but you really do only need one type of charger now. And the AirPods don't really need to be charged very often - I usually get by with a 10-day charge cycle.
I always thought the full move to USB-C was the right one. Only someone like Apple could have pulled it off and forced all of their customers to change the way they use their devices but now we are better off because if it.
I connect a single USB C Cable to connect 2 extra monitors, mouse, keyboard, ethernet and extra USB ports.
This was only possible on proprietary Docks like Dell or Lenovo beforehand. Now even those moved to USB-C Docks and everyone can use most USB-C Docks.
Dongles are just for transitioning.
Did Apple make a pretty penny on selling you extra crap you didn't need before? Of course they did. But I still prefer USB-C over having a bunch of different ports on a laptop that I have to each connect every time I want to "undock" my laptop.
And now those technologies are shared beyond manufacturer lines and you don't have to buy a Dell specific dock.
I was doing this in 2015 via Thunderbolt 2. The transition to USB-C combined power and data at the cost of MagSafe and being able to trust that if a cord plugs in to the socket it will work. I don’t think that was a fair trade.
I bought a dock from OWC and I cannot connect the power cable and the HDMI cable at the same time. My mouse stops responding and everything heats up like it's nobody's business.
While a single cable connected to a dock is a great idea, in reality, I am left with two three cables on top of a dock.
>Now even those moved to USB-C Docks and everyone can use most USB-C Docks.
This is actually a common point of confusion exacerbated by USB-C. The good docks have moved on to Thunderbolt with a USB-C connector, not USB-C per se. The plain USB-C "docks" on the market are usually horrendous - basically just USB hubs with onboard ethernet adapter and a terrible USB-driven video card if there's a port for display output, and often have severe usability and reliability issues (overheating; inability to do power pass-through correctly; odd bugs like power draw on other ports resetting your ethernet and display).
My only complaint about USB-C is that the different abilities of the port aren't visually distinguishable. You can't tell by looking at it if a USB-C port has power delivery. Other people have written more extensively about this complaint, that's just the one example that I constantly worry about.
Whether a particular USB-C accessory actually works or not should be very simple, but it very often isn't. All sorts of issues crop up in practical reality because there are many protocols and feature sets all bundled into one connector and not all devices implement them. Go to the reviews of practically any USB-C accessory and you'll find a mix of people perfectly satisfied with the function of the device and people with devices for which it doesn't work at all.
There's also a bunch of features with little caveats that confuse people wildly. Literally a few minutes ago my boss was puzzled as to why her USB-C Mini Displayport adapter wasn't working, and what we realized is that it was connected through a docking station with an HDMI port on it, and despite the fact that nothing was plugged into this port, it was still consuming the Displayport signal for the port and not passing it on to its children.
Some of this stuff might be intuitive to someone who understands, but the average user doesn't know or really want to know why the port on the dock is different from the one on their computer even though they look the same.
It sure is simpler if you know what standards your USB-C port supports, but if you don't it's way easier to have the older ports where you can have one glance at them and know their function instead of having to look through the spec sheet.
There was an article on HN a few days ago discussing just this issue.
> Only someone like Apple could have pulled it off and forced all of their customers to change the way they use their devices but now we are better off because if it.
They didn't force "all" of their customers to change. Some of us left their ecosystem entirely. My ThinkPad now suits me quite nicely using my devices the way I want to.
I recently switched to MacBook when my old ThinkPad gave up. I am regretting the decision now:
1. The dongle problem was one of the first thing i noticed. I tried to use a tplink usb hub which i have been using with my ThinkPad, but MacBook would randomly refuse to detect my keyboard or mouse when walking up from sleep.
2. Window management is bad. Windows solution is so much better. The only solution send to be to buy 3rd party software which emulates Windows OS behaviour.
3. Keyboard is crap (2019 MacBook).
There are few good things like the track pad, but honestly at this point ThinkPad + Windows gives a better developer experience than MacBook.
From my experience with that shortcut, it does not show the window if it was minimised. The title bar does change to the application name though. Is there a way to maximise the window after switching to it?
I also miss ability to snap the window to the left or right of the screen with keyboard shortcut - windows key + arrow keys. Is there a mac equivalent that I am missing?
So, it sounds like you might be talking about command+tab since the application is changing (comamnd+tilde does windows in the same application) so if you want to unminimize the application, you hold option while releasing the command key.
since that's a bit hard to parse:
press and hold command
press tab until the applicaiton you want is highlighted in the switcher popup
press and hold option
release command
For snapping to the side of the screen, you need to add the shortcut yourself, but macOS allows you to do this. You need to:
open system preferences
open the keyboard preference pane
open the shortcuts tab
select the App shortcuts category
press +
make sure All Applications is selected in the Application dropdown (should be by default)
enter the following in the Menu title (case sensitive):
Tile Window to Left of Screen
choose your shortcut (highlight the shortcut input field and press the shortcut)
and then hit Add
repeat for the right side of the screen
technically some apps do not support split screen, for those you may want to override the shortcut with the action "Move Window to Left of Screen", overriding the shortcut on an app-by-app basis is done by adding another shortcut specific to that app with the same shortcut but a different action.
The navigation between Windows and OSX is fundamentally different (and a large gripe I have with OSX).
OSX is _Application Centric_ while Windows is _Window Centric_. The fact that in OSX I first have to navigate to the App, then once in that app navigate to a specific window that may or may not be visible is frustrating. On windows you cycle between windows that are in a stacked order that has no relation to the application that owns them (they are first-class citizens for the OS). It's more focused on your workflow of documents and not applications. Also, in Windows, if I select a minimized window it will un-minimize the window automatically for me while OSX seems to thing making the focus on the application in that case is enough, even if all the windows for the application are hidden.
These seem like trivial differences, but they are fundamental changes in workflow that trip a lot of people up. Also, FWIW, many (most?) window managers on Linux follow the same window centric workflow.
Note: If I'm slightly off on any OSX related weirdness, feel free to correct me. I switched back to Windows once WSL was a working alternative and haven't really looked back. The only thing I really miss in the _AMAZING_ trackpads.
To solve point NR2 you can use https://rectangleapp.com/ and bind it to the keyboard shortcuts you are used to. FYI you can also switch the location of the command, option and alt keys if you prefer the windows layout in: System Preferences > keyboard > modifier keys
That app looks like what i want. Thank you! Curious why it uses some third party keyboard shortcut creation tool. Doesn't mac os settings have ability to create keyboard shortcuts? Does that only work for built in mac os features?
I had a similar issue with window management on MacOS. I switched over to using Yabai about a year ago (a tiling window manager in the style of BSPWM on Linux) and haven't looked back since.
I've even managed to get Windows-style window management working in my config.
That website is not fit for purpose. Between the cookie settings dialog, the (fake) request for notifications and the intrusive ads, I gave up on trying to actually find the content.
Remember the complaints when Apple switched away from 30-pin, or when they switched away from the floppy?
They seem to be right more than they're wrong. Could you imagine a 30-pin (or FireWire port, since that's what preceded 30-pin) on a modern iPhone?
The headphone jack could be the most notable exception, though. It predates modern computing and I doubt it'll ever go away unless battery and connectivity tech continues to improve.
Every device I am currently using is USB-C. It's great. Every charger can charge every device. My displays work with everything, the daily driver Dell, the Macbook for xcode, and even my phone (a Samsung Galaxy S10). The phone is kind of the surprise. Samsung has a feature called Dex that lets you hook up a keyboard, mouse and display and use the phone as a desktop. It's actually pretty useful.
The alternative being that Apple must support every port forever?
If they were moving from one uncommon proprietary port to another uncommon proprietary port, I'd understand the beef. Most of the issues described in this screed are about "legacy" devices not being connectable via USB-C, though. Which... yeah, that's the issue with older devices.
There's 3.5mm audio disappearing in favor of proprietary Lightning, but that's hardly "Apple's dongle problem isn't getting any better." Thanks to widespread uptake of AirPods, that one is getting slightly better. And it's a single dingle, for the subset of iPhone users who use wired audio.
Everything else, it's transition. I mean, I'm typing this on a laptop that uses a dongle to connect an external 4K monitor, but that's because the external 4K monitor doesn't do USB-C (or Thunderbolt over USB-C) at least as much as it's because the MacBook doesn't support HDMI.
I'm personally not looking forward to the day iPhones switch to USB-C as well, but I know it's coming, and I won't complain too much.
Oh come on: this is just lazy clickbait. People complained about this back when Apple was the first mass market company to go USB.
The move to USB Type C connectors is a good one, even if USB consortium continues to shoot itself in the foot with stupid names and lack of labeling (Apple could step up here). Instead of proprietary docks you can plug just one cable in at your desk, then unplug one, gab your laptop and go. Also you can plug your iPad (newer ones) into that same connection.
I feel these discussions are a bit hyperbolic because of the use of the term "dongle" to talk of adaptors. I know it doesn't make any real difference, but it somehow sounds worse / more complicated.
I recently went back to a desktop computer. It solved most of my issues with modern laptops/tablets/phones. While it is not mobile, I find that using a desktop computer for my heavier computing tasks and a tablet for my casual browsing to be the best fit for me.
On my desktop I program using a 34" ultrawide which I find very efficient. It's great for photo management, multitasking, movies and games as well. My desktop has plenty of USB ports, speed and best of all IMO I can have the perfect keyboard of my choosing. I know this setup isn't optimal for many but it suits me very well. With many switching to remote work it may become more viable now. YMMV.
There's also something to be said about separation of computing tasks and time spent doing them. Use the right tool for the job.
I'm honestly considering doing the same thing. I love my MBP 2012 but it's replacement is really expensive - and if I want to upgrade my capabilities (I have a quad core i7, 16 GB RAM and 512GB SSD) then even more so. I'm considering building a desktop (something I haven't done since the 90's!) and running Ubuntu Studio on it (music & photography are my creative outlets). I found this great site, pcpartpicker.com, that makes it really easy to look at all the parts you need to build your desktop. Between that and an iPad I think I'll be good to go.
I bought a System76 Thelio. I just ordered the base model and upgraded the ram and processor. I used to dual boot Ubuntu and Windows 10 on the same drive on a different machine. But not with this. I have the stock Pop_OS on its own drive and Windows on another. Then I use 2 more drives for media storage. It works great. It's fast and I get best of both worlds. I could have built my own but I really like the company's effort to create open hardware. I felt it was something worth supporting. PCPartPicker is a great tool. I encourage you to try a desktop again. Another great reason to go this route is being able to upgrade or simply having the abilty to easily replace parts yourself. Desktops just last longer. Cheers!
I have stopped buying some Apple hardware due to the dongles adapters. Carrying adapters makes it more complicated to connect external devices. Plus all adapters creates more electronic waste which is bad for the environment.
Thinking lack of 3.5mm headphone jack on iPhones. Lack of hdmi out and no non USB-c ports on mac. So many dongles...
I recently bought a MacBook Pro 2020 (my first Apple product) and although I thought the dongle problem was gonna be a nightmare, it just isn't. I mainly use my laptop as a laptop, with no external monitors so there's that. With my old laptop I used to use a mouse, but the track pad is so good I don't use a mouse anymore, so there's that too. I also have an external hard drive with USB 3 but I just bought a USB C connector that I keep permanently on the drive so it's not an issue either.
I use a Dell D6000 and just need 1 Type C cable to switch between my Gaming Rig, Macbook Pro and Work Thinkpad. This includes Speakers, seperate Headset, 60Hz 4k, Power Passthrough, Mouse, Keyboard, Wireless Charging Pad and a 5TB USB C HDD. No Problems at all
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[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 134 ms ] threadI have very few devices with USB-C connectors, and I have to carry a "dongle bag" with me.
And I'm actually happy that so few devices use USB-C, because if they all did, I would only be able to connect 3 of them to my MacBook Pro, because there are no decent USB-C hubs available.
I'm also fighting a losing battle with the stupid headphone jack dongles. I would have bought one for every headphone that I have, but I actually need TWO, because I switch between an iPhone and an iPad Pro. Those two dongles look identical and I can't count the number of times I ended up away from home with the wrong one. No end of frustration.
Regardless, the submission should have "(2019)" in the title.
I don't get it. Why a separate dongle for everything?
I bought a U$50,-- USB-C expander with pass-through charging for MicroSD, 2x USB-A and HDMI. Done. Cheaper than a 2 meter Lightning cable in some places!
In other words, USB-C has added zero value for me, and created a need for plenty of new cables, dongles, and adapters/expanders. Relevant: https://xkcd.com/927/
If my MacBook Pro had HDMI, 2xUSB-A and an SD Card slot, and if phones/ipads had headphone jacks, I could cut the size of the dongle bag by 3/4 at least.
I do miss HDMI as well. I have an adapter somewhere but I forget about it until I need it
The problem (well, one of them) is not everyone wants BT headphones (and AirPods specifically) or some kind of transparent auto-magic network/cloud storage, not every device is suited to wireless connectivity, and there's a long, long tail of existing devices no one wants to re-buy. It's not the floppy drive.
Power
1 43" 4K display
1 27" 2160p display
Speakers out
Headphone amp out
Keyboard
Mouse
High quality webcam
SD card reader
Ethernet
8 spare USB ports, most of them USB3
Back in the before times when I travelled into offices for work I was able to sit down at any desk in the office and immediately get access to power, and at least one external display, again by plugging in two cables, and because as a company our IT department has standardised on laptops that support USB-C anybody can do the same, regardless of whether they're running Windows or Mac OS.
The transition period to everything supporting USB-C was a bit painful, but I absolutely wouldn't go back to have a hodgepodge of different connectors needed on my laptop.
Did they go away on some previous models, then come back?
https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-13/specs/
https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/specs/
> And, of course, there's the headphone jack. Unless you're using the Mac Mini or an iMac, if you wanna connect something that isn't USB-C or Lightning, you're out of luck. Enter the dongle.
> In 2018, the best-selling Apple products at Best Buy were AirPods and the Lightning-to-3.5 mm dongle. Both of these products exist because Apple got rid of the headphone jack.
I guess you can/need to use a lightning-to-3.5mm dongle on an iPhone too, and that's all they meant, not macbooks? The "unless you are using the mac mini or an imac" surrounded on both sides by discussion of headphone jacks is kinda misleading.
It is not a problem, it's a feature.
Apple replaced ports that used to cost them pennies in components for dongles which they can sell to customers for upwards of $50, which can be lost, or which you buy multiples of so you can have one at home, in the office, etc.
Unlike previous times in Apple history where they went all-in on a new and not yet widely adopted bus (USB1, FireWire) IMHO this is purely about improving their margins. Remove existing functionality and charge customers more to return to the status quo.
This argument has never made much sense to me, if only because the amount of money we're talking about is, for Apple, vanishingly small. The Mac is just ~10% of Apple's revenue, of which the "dongle ecosystem" is surely no more than a fraction of a percent.
While admittedly not knowing much about how Apple works internally, I would find it easier to believe that they switched to USB-C just because it looks prettier than because they wanted to make an extra $20 million per year on dongle sales.
I repair used macs. The number 1 problem on all the pre-2012 MacBooks is damaged ports.
Not for nothing, all of these arguments were made when Apple switched from ADB to USB, to Firewire, from 30pin to lightning, and they're being recycled again for the switch to USB-C.
The answer to your question is that each one does something better than the last in terms of portability or data transfer.
I would do the same thing if I had the same power to move markets that they do - no need to put up with legacies of the past when I can just force everyone to follow me toward whatever I consider the future to be.
USB-C provides zero insertion force sockets, a single replacement for any plug of any kind from monitors to networking, 24 pins, and 40Gbps speeds.
Reliability. Speed. Adaptability. User convenience.
Dropping magsafe is when we started seeing port damage. Most problems on the 2008-2012 models are logic board related.
At the end of the day, we are rapidly moving towards a wireless future.
One of the target markets of Macs and especially MBPs is "creatives". Photographers are a part of those. On the MBP 16" presentation page one of the first selling points is that it has a great screen with great colors. The example is a landscape photographer. Of course, you could directly plug the camera in the computer, or have some external card reader, but why bother with carrying more suff?
I agree with the others that thunderbolt 3 is great, and I sure look forward to only having usb-c connectors. On my work computer I love that (it's a pc though). Of course, there's the "right cable" situation, but I suppose that whatever peripheral I buy will have the right kind of cable for it to work. My external monitor does DP alternate mode + PD and the cable that came with works.
That sait, I would miss the magsafe plug, it's probably one of the reasons why my 7 yo mbp is still going strong. I also think they could have left a usb-a port or two, just like they didn't remove FW800 on the first generation unibody mbp.
Anyway, my mbp is still powerful enough for my needs and works perfectly, so I'm not really in the market for a new PC (nor mac). I just like to more or less keep an eye on what happens, just in case.
I started a new job recently and got a MBP and iPhone, and the number of dongles I've needed is ridiculous. What's most insane is that I can't even use the earbuds that came with the iPhone with the computer. I'm sure there's a dongle for that.
Then there's the fact that a few days after I started using the Mac the right ports stopped working with the power cord to charge the machine. I had to do research the find the secret keyboard combination to reset the USB ports.
Although Apple's products are generally very good, they have no lack of features and designs that make absolutely no sense to me.
I don't think that's the difference. I think the difference is that, the other times 3rd party companies made the switch to whatever Apple was pushing, and this time, they didn't. USB-A is good enough, and common enough, that all of these companies making keyboard and mice and whatever components, just didn't bother to switch. So, I don't think that this transition was different from Apple's perspective, I think it has just been a failure.
However, I think the dongle situation is fairly overblown. You don’t have to use dongles or adapters unless you just seriously hate yourself. Get a USB-C hub and plug everything into the hub.
Built in HDMI was a huge advantage for me. With my MBP it's a problem, with my ThinkPad - not so much.
I actually prefer USB-C to having a handful of generic plugs. My travel hub has HDMI, DP, VGA, and ethernet. I would be obnoxious to have all those plugs on a laptop.
"Oh, just give me five minutes while I run back to my desk and get my dongle" probably isn't going to cut it.
That's the main reason I use my ThinkPad over my MBP for work.
It really is. I was salty about how early they went all-in on USB-C, but it turned out not to be much of a problem. Now it's pretty clear the whole Apple ecosystem is shifting there -- the Pro iPads were already there; now the new iPads introduced last week use it, too. I fully expect the new iPhones will be there, too -- and if not this year, then next.
(Now, when they do that, the same people will scream about Apple "changing ports AGAIN," because for some people Apple cannot do anything right.)
>Get a USB-C hub and plug everything into the hub.
Exactly.
This doesn’t limit anyone, it’s just turning the devices into more slim lined machines with better IP ratings. 90% of people (made up statistic) are happy with this system, I’m sick of hearing these old codgers dream of the glory days when their thinkpad had 40 ports... buy a thinkpad then ya dangus, why would you buy a Tesla if I want to go rock crawling off road?
I know that people here on HN love bulky machines with lots of ports, such as Thinkpads (especially older variants), but I love a small thin laptop, even if it has lower performance. Also, dongle situation allows me to mix and match which ports I want to actually use, rather than have all of them "just in case".
Headphones were $30+ and I only had 1 charger.
I'm just happy capitalism forced almost all companies away from this.
I connect a single USB C Cable to connect 2 extra monitors, mouse, keyboard, ethernet and extra USB ports.
This was only possible on proprietary Docks like Dell or Lenovo beforehand. Now even those moved to USB-C Docks and everyone can use most USB-C Docks.
Dongles are just for transitioning.
Did Apple make a pretty penny on selling you extra crap you didn't need before? Of course they did. But I still prefer USB-C over having a bunch of different ports on a laptop that I have to each connect every time I want to "undock" my laptop.
And now those technologies are shared beyond manufacturer lines and you don't have to buy a Dell specific dock.
While a single cable connected to a dock is a great idea, in reality, I am left with two three cables on top of a dock.
If/when all devices use USB-C you just plug your first monitor in and then use it's USB-C hub to connect all other devices.
"When laptops use USB-C" is sufficient criteria, and that's already true.
Said differently, good monitors are docks these days.
This is actually a common point of confusion exacerbated by USB-C. The good docks have moved on to Thunderbolt with a USB-C connector, not USB-C per se. The plain USB-C "docks" on the market are usually horrendous - basically just USB hubs with onboard ethernet adapter and a terrible USB-driven video card if there's a port for display output, and often have severe usability and reliability issues (overheating; inability to do power pass-through correctly; odd bugs like power draw on other ports resetting your ethernet and display).
There's also a bunch of features with little caveats that confuse people wildly. Literally a few minutes ago my boss was puzzled as to why her USB-C Mini Displayport adapter wasn't working, and what we realized is that it was connected through a docking station with an HDMI port on it, and despite the fact that nothing was plugged into this port, it was still consuming the Displayport signal for the port and not passing it on to its children.
Some of this stuff might be intuitive to someone who understands, but the average user doesn't know or really want to know why the port on the dock is different from the one on their computer even though they look the same.
There was an article on HN a few days ago discussing just this issue.
They didn't force "all" of their customers to change. Some of us left their ecosystem entirely. My ThinkPad now suits me quite nicely using my devices the way I want to.
1. The dongle problem was one of the first thing i noticed. I tried to use a tplink usb hub which i have been using with my ThinkPad, but MacBook would randomly refuse to detect my keyboard or mouse when walking up from sleep.
2. Window management is bad. Windows solution is so much better. The only solution send to be to buy 3rd party software which emulates Windows OS behaviour.
3. Keyboard is crap (2019 MacBook).
There are few good things like the track pad, but honestly at this point ThinkPad + Windows gives a better developer experience than MacBook.
This may help you, or others.
I also miss ability to snap the window to the left or right of the screen with keyboard shortcut - windows key + arrow keys. Is there a mac equivalent that I am missing?
That said, when I did a lot of travel, and worked on my laptop without any external screens, I was a big fan of Divvy (https://mizage.com/divvy/).
Also, here's a list of some keyboard shortcuts that folks may enjoy:
https://www.imore.com/manage-your-windows-pro-macos
since that's a bit hard to parse:
press and hold command press tab until the applicaiton you want is highlighted in the switcher popup press and hold option release command
For snapping to the side of the screen, you need to add the shortcut yourself, but macOS allows you to do this. You need to:
open system preferences open the keyboard preference pane open the shortcuts tab select the App shortcuts category press + make sure All Applications is selected in the Application dropdown (should be by default) enter the following in the Menu title (case sensitive): Tile Window to Left of Screen choose your shortcut (highlight the shortcut input field and press the shortcut) and then hit Add repeat for the right side of the screen
technically some apps do not support split screen, for those you may want to override the shortcut with the action "Move Window to Left of Screen", overriding the shortcut on an app-by-app basis is done by adding another shortcut specific to that app with the same shortcut but a different action.
OSX is _Application Centric_ while Windows is _Window Centric_. The fact that in OSX I first have to navigate to the App, then once in that app navigate to a specific window that may or may not be visible is frustrating. On windows you cycle between windows that are in a stacked order that has no relation to the application that owns them (they are first-class citizens for the OS). It's more focused on your workflow of documents and not applications. Also, in Windows, if I select a minimized window it will un-minimize the window automatically for me while OSX seems to thing making the focus on the application in that case is enough, even if all the windows for the application are hidden.
These seem like trivial differences, but they are fundamental changes in workflow that trip a lot of people up. Also, FWIW, many (most?) window managers on Linux follow the same window centric workflow.
Note: If I'm slightly off on any OSX related weirdness, feel free to correct me. I switched back to Windows once WSL was a working alternative and haven't really looked back. The only thing I really miss in the _AMAZING_ trackpads.
I've even managed to get Windows-style window management working in my config.
Link: https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai
Remember the complaints when Apple switched away from 30-pin, or when they switched away from the floppy?
They seem to be right more than they're wrong. Could you imagine a 30-pin (or FireWire port, since that's what preceded 30-pin) on a modern iPhone?
The headphone jack could be the most notable exception, though. It predates modern computing and I doubt it'll ever go away unless battery and connectivity tech continues to improve.
If they were moving from one uncommon proprietary port to another uncommon proprietary port, I'd understand the beef. Most of the issues described in this screed are about "legacy" devices not being connectable via USB-C, though. Which... yeah, that's the issue with older devices.
There's 3.5mm audio disappearing in favor of proprietary Lightning, but that's hardly "Apple's dongle problem isn't getting any better." Thanks to widespread uptake of AirPods, that one is getting slightly better. And it's a single dingle, for the subset of iPhone users who use wired audio.
Everything else, it's transition. I mean, I'm typing this on a laptop that uses a dongle to connect an external 4K monitor, but that's because the external 4K monitor doesn't do USB-C (or Thunderbolt over USB-C) at least as much as it's because the MacBook doesn't support HDMI.
I'm personally not looking forward to the day iPhones switch to USB-C as well, but I know it's coming, and I won't complain too much.
The move to USB Type C connectors is a good one, even if USB consortium continues to shoot itself in the foot with stupid names and lack of labeling (Apple could step up here). Instead of proprietary docks you can plug just one cable in at your desk, then unplug one, gab your laptop and go. Also you can plug your iPad (newer ones) into that same connection.
Needless to say my thinkpad x1 carbon is amazing and I will probably be a thinkpad customer for a long time!
Thinking lack of 3.5mm headphone jack on iPhones. Lack of hdmi out and no non USB-c ports on mac. So many dongles...
For this particular usage, it's great.