Ask HN: So I Hired a Homeless Guy

91 points by temp141516 ↗ HN
I own an old bricks-and-mortar kind of business. Over the years, I’ve often tried to go a step beyond to help people out in hiring decisions, giving folks a second-chance. This “policy” (if you can call it that) has worked out well exactly once (but a spectacular success). The same policy has turned out quite poorly on several occasions, and twice, disaster.

We have an in-house software project.

One applicant (call him “Jake”) interviewed rather casually, in dirty clothes. His interview was great. His portfolio was very good. His references responded tersely. I hired him.

Jake excelled at the project, worked long hours, and the project made fast progress. He became project lead.

After a couple of weeks, Jake surreptitiously “moved in” and started sleeping at the office.

After hours there started to be problems. Damage to the walls (~a dozen holes). A tile in the bathroom shattered. One of Jake’s monitors shattered. Complaints from the other building tenants about screaming on the weekends (yes, screaming).

(He fixed the walls and replaced the monitor.)

The problem is this: during the day, when we’re focused on the software, he’s great. Really great. When he veers off into his personal past, or if he’s having a bad day, it’s a lot of unresolved parent issues and talk of witchcraft and auras. Then he tells you earnestly that he’s not crazy (he uses the word “crazy” a lot, actually).

The seemingly obvious solution is for him to move out. He could easily afford a local apartment. Judging from his responses to my suggestions (and our in-house experience) it may be difficult for him to keep an apartment. I have concerns that his odd behavior might put him in jail (he is also black).

Everybody was fine with him at the beginning. His work is still great. Now everyone has become apprehensive about him.

So my choices seem like A) Leave him alone, B) Move him out, C) ...I don’t know.

81 comments

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(comment deleted)
Both are risky. Listen to HN, but consult a psychologist.
Your options are:

1. Move him out.

2. Move him out and fire him.

Allowing him to keep this up is not an option. You need to figure out if he can be professional during work hours and whether it's worth it for you and the company to keep him at the job.

Whatever you pick - try to be as decisive as you can. You sound like someone who is really trying to help and it's easy for someone like you to be taken advantage of.

+1 you must move him out, for his sake and for the sake of your business.
That is a very interesting and challenging problem that you have on your hands. It is sad that a candidate can hold it together during business hours but engages in anti-social behavior elsewhere that is indicative of mental or substance abuse issues.

Your best bet, as a small business with limited resources, is to sever ties with this individual and use all police and legal resources available to you.

The reason for this is arbitrary and stems from your liability as an employer to the safety of others, and to the office building's zoning laws.

I was honestly in this exact same position a decade ago and I was able to stay out of everyone's way by sleeping in my car in the back of another corporation's parking lot. Bringing this behavior into the office shouldn't be acceptable for legal reasons, not personal ones.

First off, good on you for giving people second chances. The world can be cruel, and good people make mistakes. It's nice to know there are people out there like you willing to take a chance on someone with a less than squeaky clean past.

I think the problem here is the line between professional / personal life is a bit blurred. If he is doing good work and continues to do good work, keep him. However it is not the place of an employer (or a workspace) to fill every need in someone's life. He needs to move out and work on establishing healthy boundaries.

Does your health insurance plan cover mental health services?

This can only get worse. This person likely requires medication, and that won't happen unless he wants it.

Letting him live at the office won't help him in the long term if he's unwilling to seek mental health help. It will only drag you into his crazy world.

Consult a lawyer for you and your business, and a social worker for "Jake".

This is frankly inappropriate for HN. You are exposing yourself to incredibly unnecessary liability, especially if "Jake" finds this post, because it won't be a leap to claim identifiability.

I have a neighbor like this. Nice person, loudly wrestles with demons on the regular, took a while to get used to it.

It sounds like an apartment is right out, but maybe a detached residence (ie a house) would work. I don't know what part of the country you're in and what sort of options are available/how that would interact with work travel time etc.

What if you take his situation seriously in the sense of legitimising his belief? ie treat the witchcraft/auras thing as real (which it obviously is, for him), but explain that you don't have the expertise/insight and other people feel his power but aren't able to read it correctly. Don't patronize him, just give an example of someone else you've known who had to deal with that sort of thing to communicate that you respect the fact of his personal struggles. Failing that, ask him if there's a book or a movie you could consult on your own time to help you understand his thing better.

Ask him what he needs in a space to be able to defend himself from these bad forces and also what amount of time/energy it takes - maybe it interacts with work hours. The flip side of his focus and stamina at work could be difficulty in switching off and relaxing; perhaps it's a sort of dynamic tension that needs to be cranked up to an angry climax through which he discharges his energy in a burst and is then able to sleep it off.

As this has obviously happened before he's probably heard conversations of the form 'Jake I like you, love your work, but the demon stuff is a problem.' Could be the way out of this vicious circle is 'Jake I like you, love your work, how do you fend off spiritual attackers?' If he can't talk coherently about it, set aside a few work hours to have him write it down. Your role is that you want to help but don't have the psychic sensitivity he does, ie the supportive sidekick that can line up resources for the hero but not fight the battles.

If you can find some way to mediate your relationship through this framework (and agree clear boundaries on your ability to assist, but be willing within those mutually-agreed and inviolable boundaries)then I think you could carry on helping each other in your different ways. It's clear that you care a lot and want to help, while also needing to balance that with the needs of other team members and yourself, so I think the key is establish some sort of language in which you can communicate with each other about how he's doing without necessarily getting into the specifics of how he does it, if that makes sense.

Best of luck to you both.

I don't think legitimizing magical thinking is going to help here in the short term (gaining their trust) or long term (improving their mental health). You don't have to understand it or pretend to understand. This is about amenably resolving a hostile work environment and so its best not to veer off course. I would focus on finding resources to keep this employee housed during off hours so they can leave instead of having fits in front of their colleagues.
I have to ask. Did you do a criminal background check on him ? If he has some issues and possibly needs mental help, you need to be careful on how you handle this.

I would first talk to him and mention that it is safer not to use company office after a certain hour and so he should not work so late in office. If possible, revoke after hours access (unless your office is literally a lock and key)

If that doesn't work, then you need to think about how to handle it. You can either fire him (but talk to an employment attorney first to ensure you have everything covered) or you need to give him strict warning (could backfire) that he cannot do this.

Document everything!!This could save your ass. It sucks to hire someone and put faith in them, give them a chance and then dealing with this type of stuff. Jake probably needs mental help but you cannot provide that to him.

First, you should immediately delete this. If anyone at your company, or “Jake”, sees this they will immediately know who it is about. I can’t imagine the HR disaster if that happened.

Second, I cannot believe you are actually entertaining the idea of continuing to allow this person to live in your office, destroy walls, and destroy company equipment. Are you nuts?

> Second, I cannot believe you are actually entertaining the idea of continuing to allow this person to live in your office, destroy walls, and destroy company equipment. Are you nuts?

I wouldn't say OP is "nuts" rather maybe he isn't ONLY prioritizing his business bottom line. I think OP's willingness to go out of their way and deal with this "odd" situation is really giving and beautiful.

With that, OP should be wary of making Jake your ONLY priority. People need help and opportunities and I wish our community was more willing to give, but it doesn't have to be at the FULL expense of the business or OP's emotional health.

So OP is most definitely not nuts, but should also just make sure to have his own mental/emotional health as a variable.

It’s not just business bottom line. If he is leasing an office it is almost certainly a violation of the lease to have someone sleeping there. The fact that the business owner knows is likely grounds to terminate the lease outright. Unlikely to happen in 2020 but the point remains.
Some people value giving someone a second chance more than they value honoring their lease agreement.

You could say that OP has violated their lease agreement, but OP might say that our society has failed this employee. They're both issues that should be fixed. I don't think it's reasonable to say that OP is nuts for having a different opinion than you on which issue should be fixed first.

Of all the ways to help this individual, letting “Jake” sleep at the office is absolutely, unequivocally, not an option.

OP is not just risking the lease. He or she is risking the business and the lives and livelihoods of all the employees.

Sure, and when the entire business has the lease terminated because they failed to deal with this, they can all claim that society failed them.
lol you think this guy actually has an HR department
I have this idea, be honest and but firm, and do a proposition to him: you'll allow him to stay and continue working but he has to accept taking a serious psychological treatment, that person needs mental attention immediately. He sounds like a reasonable/intelligent person, try to negotiate something that helps him and you.
It sounds like prior to joining your company he may have been in financial hardship, so that rather than use his new salary to start renting a place immediately, he would rather pay down debt and build up savings. Or he might have not gotten around to or not know how to go about finding a place. In either case, you should talk to him about it. If his reasons are financial, you might find out that he has a timeline in mind (eg 'after my student loan is paid' or 'when I have $x savings'). You might consider offering a salary increase to offset the rent. If it's about getting around to apartment-hunting, you can pay a real estate agent to book him apartment showings.

It's probably important for him to have a decent psychiatrist. He may be defensive about that; I'd go into that conversation with a non-threatening narrative in mind.

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You say this person's colleagues have become apprehensive. Are they outright scared?

As the boss, you have the ability to fire this person, or order them off the premises at any moment. You're also more able to remove yourself from the office if you feel uncomfortable.

Your other workers don't have this agency. They have to show up and work alongside somebody who can't control themselves and has violent outbursts.

Liability concerns aside (IANAL) I think you should be proud of what you've tried to do, and accomplished so far. If everyone involved is a tight knit group and you're comfortable that they're aligned with the ongoing risk/altruism tradeoff, that's one thing. If not... please consider that you are signing other, less powerful people up for the downsides of this situation.

Very good point. Your other workers may even be supportive, but ultimately scared; this isn't what they signed up for.

I applaud you for looking to hire people others would overlook, it's just that sometimes it is harder to help people than it seems.

I have serious doubts that he is doing good work or could possibly be effective in a project lead position from what you said, mental illness isn't a switch that you can just turn off during the day.
Talk to a local organisation that might be able to help with accommodation and give real advice and maybe support.

What you are talking about is beyond the capabilities of most people. But giving people second chances like you have done is also more than most people can do, it is really hard. But don't be afraid to bail this time, you might not yet be up to it in life.

I wonder if the screaming is computer games... We used to play at work until the Co-Tennants complained.

You're torturing your staff by keeping someone so toxic and erratic around them, just for the feeling of doing some good deed for the world.

This is a terrible forum to have this discussion, as well. For the sake of your employees, delete this and get rid of this guy.

> You're torturing your staff by keeping someone so toxic and erratic around them

Let’s dial back the extremes here. Sure the person is a bit odd and has caused some issues at night. They are a “lead” on the team so they obviously are somewhat reasonably behaved.

This is why taking advice on the internet is dangerous. You rarely get the well thought out responses and perspective you need in situations like this.

You don't think this person might be a risk to others after the screaming outbursts and damage of property?
He does it after hours. Helping someone out with mental issues and keeping him stable ( he is a good employee after all), might not be the worst decision :)

If you're going to get rid of every employee with issues, you shouldn't hire anyone. Social affairs are the most difficult in being an employer, for this person in particular a stable "relation" might improve things.

He obviously has more than normal issues, but he's still a good employee who accomplished a lot in a short time.

Also notice that the op didn't mention the option to fire him. So the only other way is to "help him".

> He does it after hours

And if someone else stays after hours, are they going to be safe?

Not really. Look at how the post was introduced. There's a history of disasters and bad outcomes with the OP's approach to hiring. "It has worked well exactly once."

All of these disasters take a toll on the other people in your employ. While _YOU_ may get to feel altruistic about your hiring decisions, everyone else has to feel miserable about them.

Anything but an emphatic yes is a no hire. References responding tersely is also a CLEAR no hire.

Man, imagine helping someone out.
Helping people out is fine if you aren't doing it at the expense of others like OP is. He's terrorizing his other employees.
They became lead because they worked many hours first few weeks and had good technical skills. Not because their behavior would be reasonable from any other aspect.
making holes in the walls and shattering displays isn't really "a bit odd"
True that. I can't imagine how my face would look like the next day at the office, when I learn and internalise what happened. I'd be worried to put it mildly about working with that person.

The fact that OP wants to really help and not just fire him and find a new lead, is admirable. Hopefully, they'd figure it out!

Actually, I've reached out to HN to have them delete, but it hasn't happened yet. It did not occur to me that there was not a "delete" button.
Maybe pay for a hotel room he can live in?
How do you know he's great? I strongly suspect that when you scratch the surface there, you might find he's somewhat less than that. You very well might not be the only one who's covering for him, in one way or another.
Why not just have him work remote and let him figure out the homeless situation, if he can't perform good, it gives you actionable cause to fire for poor performance.

But living in the office, damage to office equipment, tiles, is already enough to terminate him.

You're a great person, OP, but, your business is your baby and if you allow this to fester longer, you'll risk losing other employees. Imagine how the signal works for everyone else whose observant.

I guess a person like him can't have a life alone. Another example are some guys from the army. There in the war they are heros but can't wash clothes at home.

In every workplace until now, there has been one ore more guys like this (ok, not so extreme like in this example). They all worked well and a lot but had a lot of troubles in private life.

To do just work and forget private problems I guess kind of helps .. as long you work (a lot).

I applaud you for wanting to help him. The best thing you can probably do is to help him find the help he needs. I think that is probably a difficult position, but let him know that you think he's great, that he's doing a great job, and that you want to see help him get his personal life in order as well.

I'm not sure if you can make it a requirement for him keeping his job. Perhaps consult the local housing authority as well, and the two of you can work together.

I will say, don't go this alone. It's possibly too risky for either of you.

Is this really a true story or part of a social experiment?
Sounds like a sociology assignment/project to query bias in the tech sector
Sound like the guy is struggling with mental illness. Unfortunately, this carries a huge stigma in our culture (even though the brain can be ill just like any other organ, and there's no shame in that) which makes convincing a person to get help not easy (the "crazy" part). Which means this person's behavior may be hurting other people, thus reinforcing the stigma. Maybe try to talk to him in his lucid mode and explain the problem, not in terms of him being crazy but in terms of how his actions influence other people and what he could do to change it - maybe consult with a social worker? If he's unwilling to do anything about it then it's up to you to decide whether his behavior is more than you and your team can tolerate. It probably won't get better by itself - mental illness rarely does. Other people have the right to mental health and safety too, and this needs to be taken into account.