HN Explorer

I am sick of people defending Apple

12 points by anfilt ↗ HN
The user owns the device. They should be able load software without apples blessing.

The problem is simple.

  - There is no way for a user to load their own signing keys for the boot ROM to load other OSes like linux, or even simpler disable signature checks.

  - There is no way to give iOS your own signing keys or disable signing checks to run applications. As such there is no way for me to run Firefox's rendering engine. This is because the app store policies. Then there are other open source applications that don't want to bother with having a developer account with apple.
There also the fact proprietary software probably raises their prices. So the user eats the 30% instead. Unlike the case if that software were able to self distribute.

19 comments

[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 55.3 ms ] thread
kazinator
Some users who sign up for this actually claim that they don't want to do any of that; they want only Apple-blessed images to be accepted on the phone. This fits their specific use cases and they are happy with that. Go figure.
anfilt
Thing is such a choice does not affect those users. They just don't side-load or install an other OS.

There are users would use such option though. Otherwise breaking would not be a thing.

tobylane
I jailbroke my iPhone and tried out many from the most popular list in the Cydia? store. After about two months I unjailbroke because I didn't care for any of benefits I had personally experienced. It sounds like there's a lot of people who did this, in part because Apple takes inspiration from the jailbreak-only apps.
ashman5
And yet, knowing this, people still purchase these products. Apple's reputation, while not spotless, is better than the competitor's on privacy and security. These things, at one time, did't mean as much as they do now. I'm an Apple support and have several devices, but if I see a change in the company, I'll move to something else.
anfilt
What do mean? A change to user freedom would make you leave?

You do realize apple letting users load their own signing keys can increase device security. Apples signing keys could leak or be given to government's to comply with local laws.

Although in that case a user would have to sign software and OS updates themselves. A little more hassle but more secure since the user now controls the signing keys.

This also gives the device freedom to run any software.

Also lets not forget you cant determine if the code you download from the App store has been modified from the original version submitted by the developer unless you jail brake your device so you can inspect the file system.

hindsightbias
Mkt cap: 1.98T

Users don’t care.

anfilt
They are device owners that do care otherwise jailbreaking would not be a thing. Heck in the early days before apple locked down the boot rom there were people porting linux to iPhone and iPod touches.
skygazer
I used to jailbreak regularly, because so many more things were possible on a jailbroken iPhone. But each year more of my goto tweaks were either incorporated in to the OS proper, or made unnecessary. I don’t know if that pressure release valve was Apple’s deliberate strategy to satiate jail-breaker’s nagging wants, but for several years now I’ve had no desire to go beyond stock. I’m happy with what I get for what I pay for, which is I think the calculus of 98% of the user base.
msh
So you are also sick of people defending sony, nintendo and microsoft?

They have the exact same policies for their consoles.

schwartzworld
I'm not the OP, but I never hear people staunchly defend any of those companies the way they do apple. Apple fans seem to accept and defend every questionable decision the company makes.

no headphone jack? that's a feature! no unauthorized software? that's a feature! spontaneously combusts in your pocket? you just don't understand the reason they did that. it's a feature!

msh
the combustion in your pocket seems to be a samsung feature ;)

I guess its kind a the same tribalism with sports teams and other things people are fans of.

I am pretty certain the no unauthorized software is a good business decision for them, but it also helps a lot of end user security.

alexvoda
As long as gaming consoles allow phisical distribution of software on discs or cartridges the companies can claim that an alternative exists.

It is of course still unfair (phisical is much more expensive) that they do not allow digital sideloading but as long as the phisical option exits, they have an excuse.

Apple has no excuse. They are leveraging their monopoly on iOS devices (a natural monopoly, they made and own iOS, it's not the monopoly that's the issue) to extract revenue in a different area (transaction processing).

msh
Thats not a alternative nor siddeloading. The discs needs to be digitally signed by the console created to be used.

And still requires payment to the console manufacuterer.

tonyedgecombe
>There also the fact proprietary software probably raises their prices. So the user eats the 30% instead. Unlike the case if that software were able to self distribute.

If the market would already bear an additional 30% then you can be sure the developers would have taken that extra revenue.

>I am sick of people defending Apple

Then don't but their products, there are plenty of alternatives out there.

mikebos
That's not a problem but a feature. The huge majority of users just wants something that works (tm). I used to jailbreak and root android and whatever. My phone has become such an integral part in my daily routine, I want it to work and not have to expand effort in keeping it working. And I'll pay happily for it, and yes even the inflated prices Apple uses, because stuff keeps working for years without me thinking about it. If I want to tinker I'll get a PI or some other cheap hardware to play around with.
st1x7
It's a pointless argument. Apple aren't doing anything intrinsically wrong by offering a proprietary model. Your requirements for a device are just different from the requirements of most of Apple's customers. The solution is just to use something else and not worry too much about what Apple is up to.
[dead] draw_down
Well, at least you managed not to use the word “fanboys”. That’s probably a first.
mr5iff
Not defending indeed. I just had a frustrating experience where Apple refused to repair the 2 manufacturing defects on my MacBook Pro for free (which they said they would on their website [0] [1]), claiming there was corrosion found on the logic board. There is no option for only paying for the part they purportedly said you are responsible for. You have to pay for their malfunctioning parts if they say you should.

[0] https://support.apple.com/en-hk/13-inch-macbook-pro-display-... [1] https://support.apple.com/en-hk/13inch-macbookpro-battery-re...