My wife and I are looking into living in Mexico, if we sold our home in the US, we could afford a small place in Mazatlan for the winter, and in one of the mountain villages for the summer.
Recently inherited a condo in Mazatlan. We're not sure if it's a good place to escape to - at this point we're planning on selling it. What's your case for escaping to Mexico other than much lower cost?
Pick a point anywhere on the spectrum from an unfavourable election result to a full blown civil war and there will be people for whom that is the point of no return.
This nonsense talk about civil war has gotten ridiculous. What is going to be the impetus for this war? Who are the belligerents? The "law and order" party has a monopoly on gun ownership and our police force is militarized. I guess there may be riots and civil unrest but the idea that we're going to witness a "civil war" is just silly.
> What is going to be the impetus for this war? Who are the belligerents?
Probably white nationalists. I'm not a subscriber to the idea of a full-scale civil war either but with the trends in growth for extremist groups and continued polarization I'd be surprised if violence DIDN'T erupt.
I don't think your wholesale condemnation that it's "nonsense" is helpful. I live in a rural area and, anecdotally, I've been seeing more and more open belligerence as Trump's prospects for reelection wane, fwiw
I think there's probably going to be violence and rioting, no matter who wins.
If Trump wins, and the left/antifa thinks he "shouldn't have" (which they almost certainly will, because voter suppression or electoral college or foreign interference or racism or whatever), then they're going to riot, maybe for a while. Maybe for a fairly long time if the race winds up in the Supreme Court, and is Justice Barrett casts the deciding vote. Big, left-leaning cities could get hot for a while, especially if the Proud Boys or whoever decide that it's their duty to put a stop to the rioting. That's not civil war, though. That's street brawling with a little bit of shooting.
If Biden wins, though, and Trump says that the results are invalid, because of mail fraud, or shenanigans by ballot counters, or whatever, and if he really sticks to that, then I could see an actual civil war - the "authorities" (minus Trump and his circle) vs the red states and Trump's circle. The closer the race, the more likely this scenario is. (It could be circumvented if Trump for once had a moment of decency and conceded the race. I'm not holding my breath for that to happen...)
Not necessarily leave, but evacuate from a zone with unreliable government towards a zone that has recently shown itself able to resist federal incursions.
The federal government has it's hands in every state. Most states seem to resist one or more of those programs/directives. It's based on the state government's disposition which was chosen by the people. This is most evident in divisive topics like gun control and abortion.
It’s pretty much just you, pal. But it sounds like you need some perspective. So why wait? Go now.
Consider how US-centric your worldview is already. You make the assumption that everyone on HN is (a) in the US already, (b) worries about the future like you, (c) thinks other countries are magically “better”, and (d) cares about politics and government.
It’s your inherent worldview and station that even gives you the option to consider moving. Which I think is weak, but don’t pay attention to me. Literally 90%+ of the world can not move cites or countries to escape issues at home, and for many that do, they are literally refugees fleeing from horrific situations leaving behind everything they knew and most all their meager possessions.
So sure... why not let a democracy terrify you into spending a few months whipping up Google searches on “best cities to live and work in” on your $1500 computer and chat about it over Sunday NFL games with your family? Then hire a shipping company to send your stuff via cargo and put some plane tickets on a credit card and “escape” your sad and lowly life in the USA.
You need some perspective. So why not leave now? Clearly you’re checked out and not doing much for your city or community anyway. After all, it’s all about your “difficult” life here.
Do us a favor though. Go for it. Really go for it. Don’t truck off to Canada and call yourself a hero.
Try Brazil or Colombia. Great amazing and wonderful countries. But you’ll learn to love the USA again and maybe appreciate what you have a little. I’m not suggesting you need to go to the Congo or Qatar.
But wherever you go, truly make a life for yourself there. Close your US bank and credit card accounts. Give up your US shipping address. Get rid of your services you wouldn’t have legally obtained without a US IP address.
Do it for at least three years. Really become a native. And seriously commit to learning the primary language there.
Have fun packing your Samsonite suitcase.
Don’t rent out your home. Sell it. Burn the ships.
NOTE: the above is tinged with sarcasm, but I do honestly feel you need to experience real lire elsewhere. It’s a lot different to live life fully somewhere when you can’t also “escape” back to the USA when things get annoying there after a few months. The best thing you’ll like eventually is how many of your new neighbors and friends would love to go TO the USA regardless of politics. In fact, the only people I meet that disparage our presidents (any of them going back to Carter) are other privileged people who have the same luxury you do.
24 comments
[ 2.6 ms ] story [ 62.9 ms ] threadProbably white nationalists. I'm not a subscriber to the idea of a full-scale civil war either but with the trends in growth for extremist groups and continued polarization I'd be surprised if violence DIDN'T erupt.
I don't think your wholesale condemnation that it's "nonsense" is helpful. I live in a rural area and, anecdotally, I've been seeing more and more open belligerence as Trump's prospects for reelection wane, fwiw
If Trump wins, and the left/antifa thinks he "shouldn't have" (which they almost certainly will, because voter suppression or electoral college or foreign interference or racism or whatever), then they're going to riot, maybe for a while. Maybe for a fairly long time if the race winds up in the Supreme Court, and is Justice Barrett casts the deciding vote. Big, left-leaning cities could get hot for a while, especially if the Proud Boys or whoever decide that it's their duty to put a stop to the rioting. That's not civil war, though. That's street brawling with a little bit of shooting.
If Biden wins, though, and Trump says that the results are invalid, because of mail fraud, or shenanigans by ballot counters, or whatever, and if he really sticks to that, then I could see an actual civil war - the "authorities" (minus Trump and his circle) vs the red states and Trump's circle. The closer the race, the more likely this scenario is. (It could be circumvented if Trump for once had a moment of decency and conceded the race. I'm not holding my breath for that to happen...)
[0] https://www.voanews.com/usa/race-america/mayors-major-us-cit...
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_racial_unre...
The federal government has it's hands in every state. Most states seem to resist one or more of those programs/directives. It's based on the state government's disposition which was chosen by the people. This is most evident in divisive topics like gun control and abortion.
No place is beyond the reach of the feds though, I'm not sure where you get that idea.
Consider how US-centric your worldview is already. You make the assumption that everyone on HN is (a) in the US already, (b) worries about the future like you, (c) thinks other countries are magically “better”, and (d) cares about politics and government.
It’s your inherent worldview and station that even gives you the option to consider moving. Which I think is weak, but don’t pay attention to me. Literally 90%+ of the world can not move cites or countries to escape issues at home, and for many that do, they are literally refugees fleeing from horrific situations leaving behind everything they knew and most all their meager possessions.
So sure... why not let a democracy terrify you into spending a few months whipping up Google searches on “best cities to live and work in” on your $1500 computer and chat about it over Sunday NFL games with your family? Then hire a shipping company to send your stuff via cargo and put some plane tickets on a credit card and “escape” your sad and lowly life in the USA.
You need some perspective. So why not leave now? Clearly you’re checked out and not doing much for your city or community anyway. After all, it’s all about your “difficult” life here.
Do us a favor though. Go for it. Really go for it. Don’t truck off to Canada and call yourself a hero.
Try Brazil or Colombia. Great amazing and wonderful countries. But you’ll learn to love the USA again and maybe appreciate what you have a little. I’m not suggesting you need to go to the Congo or Qatar.
But wherever you go, truly make a life for yourself there. Close your US bank and credit card accounts. Give up your US shipping address. Get rid of your services you wouldn’t have legally obtained without a US IP address.
Do it for at least three years. Really become a native. And seriously commit to learning the primary language there.
Have fun packing your Samsonite suitcase.
Don’t rent out your home. Sell it. Burn the ships.
NOTE: the above is tinged with sarcasm, but I do honestly feel you need to experience real lire elsewhere. It’s a lot different to live life fully somewhere when you can’t also “escape” back to the USA when things get annoying there after a few months. The best thing you’ll like eventually is how many of your new neighbors and friends would love to go TO the USA regardless of politics. In fact, the only people I meet that disparage our presidents (any of them going back to Carter) are other privileged people who have the same luxury you do.
https://www.vistos.mne.pt/en/national-visas/general-informat...
There’s a “Golden Visa” which is a bit more fancy, but requires you invest at least €500k in a property in Portugal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_Golden_Visa