Just yesterday I was almost killed while driving back home, because some jackass left a camo-painted trailer in a poorly-lit alley right next to my home. There is no “autopilot” that could spot it in the dusk / sunset. Until Tesla adopts a Lidar, I wouldn’t use the “full self-driving system”
So you're going to hold off riding in vehicles with human drivers until they get augmented with LIDAR as well?
To be clear, I am not saying don't use LIDAR. I was calling out OP's statement that they would feel unsafe in a car without LIDAR since it was unable to detect an unsafe condition that they detected themselves without LIDAR.
The dynamic range of your eyes vastly exceeds any "normal" camera on the market today and have much better low light sensitivity. Not only that, they're paired to a biological supercomputer whose "programming" is more powerful, efficient, and robust than anything currently in silicon. It's certainly possible to drive autonomously with cameras-only, but it's very much an open question whether we can do so safely today.
> There is no “autopilot” that could spot it in the dusk / sunset.
Are you saying you were driving on autopilot in a Tesla and it didn't spot it or you were driving a normal car and couldn't spot it?
If the later, you're assertion that because it was hard for you to see a computer wouldn't be able to is pretty strange. There's plenty of sensors that can spot a stationary object in the way even though it's camouflaged to humans, IR being the most obvious.
The situation described by the GP doesn’t sound like highway speeds. Regardless, most AV companies use a combination of LIDAR, radar, and vision (which you probably already know - just clarifying.)
You don't have a lidar sensor in your head. You have binocular vision. There is no reason we can't achieve parity with human ability with a camera suite. In my opinion lidar is a fools errand. Also I would not expect a tesla to be speeding down an alley.
If we’re just designing a system that is just as good as humans, your argument makes total sense. But it looks like we want a system that makes fewer errors and doesn’t doze off and has no alcohol issues. So it’s perfectly acceptable to want something that can also see a little bit better in the dark.
The implication here is that visual object detection in the weak link in human driving safety: I would counter that distractibility and poor response times are the weak link.
Perhaps that will be possible someday, but we still don't have affordable cameras that can match the dynamic range of the human eye. Cameras have superior resolution but they struggle when the scene is unevenly lit.
"Beta" self-driving software sounds like an incredibly bad idea. The notion that they are rolling it out to "expert and careful drivers" makes no sense.
Is there a tap-through EULA where Tesla disclaims your potential death?
Doesn't every car come with a, "if you crash from not paying attention, we are not liable"
The promise of self driving isn't that you can not pay attention, at least not yet.
In fact the user experience of FSD is that you must continue to pay attention.
Having an engaged driver monitoring the FSD system is _part of how we develop this tech_ it's how it advances, from human guidance and intervention on error.
Beta users are effectively the trainers for the last-mile aspects of FSD that are still in development.
As long as Tesla makes this clear, I don't see a problem with it. The problem will always be the people who don't RTFM or who don't follow the rules and guidelines, and win Darwin awards for the hubris/negligence.
So no different than the status quo, the human is responsible in both cases and the other road users don’t get any warnings the human is being irresponsible in either case
I find it amazing how Tesla has been able to sell - for thousands of dollars - something that doesn’t exist. Really, it’s extraordinary - sell a FSD package (before there’s any proof it’s even technically possible in the operating life of the vehicle) and then roll out random features and claim they meet the original commitment.
And, even better, their customers love them for it.
I could never do this - I would see it as an act of breathtaking dishonesty. Guess that’s one reason why I’m not going to found a billion dollar company.
I don't mean to insult or claim you're not thinking thoroughly or clearly, but this appears to me to be gross oversimplification of several deep topics wrt developing new technologies, the mission to advance the advent of sustainable energy and transport, and founding billion-dollar companies.
Also I think it's intellectually dishonest to claim you would be incapable of your perceived level of dishonesty, because you yourself are selling the idea that it's dishonest based on these gross oversimplifications.
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[ 2.5 ms ] story [ 102 ms ] threadTo be clear, I am not saying don't use LIDAR. I was calling out OP's statement that they would feel unsafe in a car without LIDAR since it was unable to detect an unsafe condition that they detected themselves without LIDAR.
Are you saying you were driving on autopilot in a Tesla and it didn't spot it or you were driving a normal car and couldn't spot it?
If the later, you're assertion that because it was hard for you to see a computer wouldn't be able to is pretty strange. There's plenty of sensors that can spot a stationary object in the way even though it's camouflaged to humans, IR being the most obvious.
Google is not your friend, but it searches this just fine.
How close did you come to colliding with it before your eyes and brain prevented this?
Is there a tap-through EULA where Tesla disclaims your potential death?
The promise of self driving isn't that you can not pay attention, at least not yet.
In fact the user experience of FSD is that you must continue to pay attention.
Having an engaged driver monitoring the FSD system is _part of how we develop this tech_ it's how it advances, from human guidance and intervention on error.
Beta users are effectively the trainers for the last-mile aspects of FSD that are still in development.
As long as Tesla makes this clear, I don't see a problem with it. The problem will always be the people who don't RTFM or who don't follow the rules and guidelines, and win Darwin awards for the hubris/negligence.
The other cars having to drive next to this car in the road don't get a warning!
And, even better, their customers love them for it.
I could never do this - I would see it as an act of breathtaking dishonesty. Guess that’s one reason why I’m not going to found a billion dollar company.
Also I think it's intellectually dishonest to claim you would be incapable of your perceived level of dishonesty, because you yourself are selling the idea that it's dishonest based on these gross oversimplifications.
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/tesla-autopil...