I've generally regarded these digital USB headphones to be lower quality (for the price) than analog headphones. That said, I've been using my current pair of HD555s for nearly a decade now, and want to upgrade. Has the tech improved significantly since then? I'm also skeptical of wireless headphones...
One major benefit of going analog is the near-universal hardware support, no need to worry about Linux compatibility for the vast majority of the cases. Is the switch worth the drawbacks?
I think that, as is often the case, it depends on what you want to achieve and what you're ready to put up with.
In my case, when I have to work with whatever computer my client provides me with, wired headphones make me dependent on the computer's audio quality. And random HP laptops are really not great. Also, I sometimes have to work travel, so I prefer limiting the number of items I have to cart around, especially expensive personal ones (like an external DAC).
A BT pair of headphones solve this problem. I currently have a Sony XM3 that I mostly bought for the sound isolation and I'm very happy with them. Are they as good as some other similarly priced analog headphones? Probably not. My old Shure 840 had a better sound for 1/3 the price.
But I actually like not being encumbered with wires and having the headphones suppress the air conditioning hum and other random noises around the office. The ambient hum would go through my old Shure, despite being closed-back. I often like having the Sony on my ears just for the noise-cancelling, with no audio coming through.
The issue with bluetooth is the lag, though. I don't really care about that as I mostly listen to music or watch movies, but if lag is important to you (say for video-conferencing or games) then the usb-wireless may be a better route. But I get the feeling that those models don't really attempt to address high audio quality.
Totally agree that most PCs have terrible analog sound quality, often plagued with EMI noise and other distortions. I still find BT to be a pain on Linux and Windows (unlike Mac / iOS, where Apple has really figured out the experience). I ended up buying a bunch of Apple USB-C to 3.5mm adapters for $9 each. Fantastic audio quality and tiny enough to leave permanently attached to headphones. The only catch is they aren't great with very high impedance headphones unless you add an external amplifier.
> Totally agree that most PCs have terrible analog sound quality, often plagued with EMI noise and other distortions.
This hasn't been the case for many many years. Most decent motherbords come with on board sound on par with 200 usd external DACs. Thinkpad laptops as well. Did blind tests with coworkers who owned DACs - they could not tell.
I think this is highly dependent on how high-end the computer is or at least who their target user is.
My (old) MBP sounds great to me. My (much newer!) HP ProBook has hissing and various random noises when I move the mouse, and I can hear this even with cheap headphones tailored for conferencing. Don't know how "accurate" either one is, but no hissing wins for me every time.
I think you nail it with most decent motherboards. There are a lot of computers on the market, especially laptops, that are just cheap and try to get away with whatever low quality components and engineering they can. In particular, I'm thinking about HP "enterprise" models which are just awful. Their target audience doesn't really care about audio quality, so why would they? Most people don't have a choice when it comes to their work computers, so they may end up stuck with something mediocre. Then again, most people don't care, so there's probably not much hope to see any improvement on this front...
> The issue with bluetooth is the lag, though. I don't really care about that as I mostly listen to music or watch movies, but if lag is important to you (say for video-conferencing or games) then the usb-wireless may be a better route. But I get the feeling that those models don't really attempt to address high audio quality.
Is there any benchmark out there for bluetooth audio lag vs usb-wireless?
I'd be curious to see one. I never really looked because when I bought my headphones I wanted to have noise-cancelling and for them to be compatible with phones without any additional gear, so BT was pretty much the only choice.
However, I remember some fifteen years ago a friend of mine had a pair of wireless headphones that had no perceptible lag when playing games. They weren't USB, they would plug in a standard audio output, though.
I also have a Jabra kit with a base that connects to the computer via USB and a wireless headset. This seems to have much less lag than BT, but I don't know how the two communicate nor how little lag there actually is.
I expect the "gaming" USB models to work similarly.
> Has the tech improved significantly since then? I'm also skeptical of wireless headphones
i used logitech h600 for a decade, they had a usb-bt dongle which connected instantly, the range was good, they were lightweight an cost around 60euro at the time. i liked them but the battery died.
replacement is 50% heavier has no mic-arm and the bt connection is a mess everytime.
If only needed for the home you can get RF wireless headphones with analog inputs and a powered docking base that does the transmission completely transparent to the source. So no driver needed and you can use them for the TV or whatever. Another benefit is the excelent range and low lag compared to bluetooth. Ergonomics also, pick them from base and they turn on and "pair" instantly. Most (all? are without microphone though. Sennheiser RS 195 for example has decent sound. I owned a cheaper Panasonic one.
BT is very convenient for me for work. I own Bose Quiercomfort 35 II. Active noise cancelation, simultaneus phone and laptop connection. Good sound quality. Range is very small compared to RF, lag, linux BT in headset mode has bad quality. Occasional pairing issues all solved in 1 minute but annoying.
My wired set is Sony MDR-1AM2. Same price range as the Bose. The sound quality is so far ahead of the BT that I can't listen to music on the Bose without feeling cheated. You just plug them to whatever you need and don't worry about anything, battery, range or interference, pairing, etc. Comfort is also better because of the weight.
Overall I would say unless you have some special need wireless is more headaches and low quality sound. Get a good wired pair of phones with microphone (my Sony has it) and get a cheap true wireless pair for the road (I have Xiaomi TWE 2) and that's it.
I'm also looking for a decent (ideally wireless) headset that works fine on Linux, with as good microphone as possible.
Currently I have
- wired Sennheiser PC 350 SE - mic quality is good
- Sony WH-1000XM3 - mic quality is mediocre
I'm quite happy with my Sennheiser, but now more and more often I have noisy environment around, so I would prefer to have noice canceling + be able to walk around the flat when I'm on conf calls.
My understanding is that right now, even with BT 5.0, I shall not expect a high quality codec as all duplex profiles (HFP/HSP) use low quality codes (ref: https://habr.com/en/post/456182), but I would be OK something with a dongle too, as long as it works OK on Linux. I was contemplating EPOS Adapt 560, but after watching many tests by CallOne (https://www.youtube.com/c/CallOneInc/videos) I'm just not too impressed. And also, I have no idea how those will work on Linux... Any recommendations?
I also have the Sony and have noticed the mic issues. But they seem related to Linux, as the quality seems ok when using my iphone. I've never tried it on Windows.
If you don't mind having different gear for conferencing, I use a Jabra Engage 75 [0] which works great on Linux. Lag is unnoticeable to me. Audio quality is terrible for music, though, especially compared to something like the Sony.
Maybe a closed ear set that isolates better? Or my personal favorite is in-ear for sound isolation without needing active noise cancellation. I'm not sure what the wireless world for those is like, outside of adapters. I do have a Jabra 75T pair I use with mobile devices, that does some sound isolation and recently added noise cancellation (haven't tried it). Their newer ones have better support for noise canceling (must include a chip for processing).
Author here, and I have the same pair of Sennheisers too! Wonderful headphones, and I did some mod where you remove some foam inside the earcups which effectively makes them like the next model up (not sure which guide I followed, but this [0] might have been it).
As I mention in the article I'm not a fan of Bluetooth, though I do use that on mobile devices. Some have better connection and codec support (depends on Bluetooth version and phone too). I have to say the Corsair wireless headset I reviewed and use, has been quite good. Audio quality in terms of wireless is great, never a problem there. I haven't tried to specifically measure lag, but nothing I noticed at least.
So I can compare more directly with what you know in the HD555. The Senn's are more comfortable (lighter, a little softer in all places) and have a clearer, more natural sound, to me. The Corsair's sound good to me as well, but tuned differently (as I wrote, more multimedia focused). I haven't tried equalizers, but that's always an option.
The wireless freedom is great. I use a wired keyboard and mouse at the desk, but headphones always have a wire moving around the desk, getting caught on something, or just annoying if I want to get up and move a little in the room.
Happy to answer any other questions. For me, the Corsair hits a nice price point and quality, works well for what I want. The higher end wireless ones quickly get more expensive, and I'd imagine that money would get you more in a non-wireless set, at least in terms of listening quality.
Are non-bluetooth wireless headphones generally not implemented as a standard USB audio interface? USB audio-based DAC output has been one of the most reliable aspects of Linux compatibility that I would not have thought of worrying about it despite using Linux as a daily-driver for a decade.
When I use USB audio out in Linux, all kinds of bugs happen, including movies sometimes freezing for no reason in vlc and mpv (audio output can make movies pause?), and audio stopping permanently in some games until you restart them depending on turning on/off headphones and what not.
Using the 3.5mm output jack of the computer into a bluetooth transmitter works much better for me. 3.5mm does the one thing it should do, transmit the audio signal, without all kinds of unwanted software side effects, the PC has no clue what I do with my headphones and given the bugs mentioned above that's a good thing.
I wonder what's wrong with my system to have such bad USB audio experience :/
> 3.5mm does the one thing it should do, transmit the audio signal, without all kinds of unwanted software side effects
I have an HP laptop with Win10 and it shows all the kinds of problems you described and more... with a standard 3.5mm jack. Youtube/VLC will freeze as soon as I plug in a headphone, Skype/Zoom will crash and end my call. Some games will continue sending audio through the laptop speakers, and only switch if I restart the game. Others will just stop outputting any audio.
I really did not think this was possible, I thought the headphone jack was just a physical switch that sends signals one way instead of the other.
Software engineers can and will find a way to fuck up your life, even if the problem has been solved for a century now.
I have an HP desktop I bought for photography work and I have the weird behavior described, too. I've found that if I uninstall HP Audio Controls or whatever it's called it leaves me alone and the windows output selector does a perfectly fine job of switching outputs.
However, I mostly use it connected to an external USB DAC and it works (mostly) ok.
That was my question (author of the article). I don't see any good way to know ahead of time, even if it seems likely. Either you find reports of things working, or you take a guess and buy them. It does seem like most work, but I wouldn't be surprised if some don't, or rely too much on the proprietary software to make things usable.
26 comments
[ 3.9 ms ] story [ 53.9 ms ] threadOne major benefit of going analog is the near-universal hardware support, no need to worry about Linux compatibility for the vast majority of the cases. Is the switch worth the drawbacks?
In my case, when I have to work with whatever computer my client provides me with, wired headphones make me dependent on the computer's audio quality. And random HP laptops are really not great. Also, I sometimes have to work travel, so I prefer limiting the number of items I have to cart around, especially expensive personal ones (like an external DAC).
A BT pair of headphones solve this problem. I currently have a Sony XM3 that I mostly bought for the sound isolation and I'm very happy with them. Are they as good as some other similarly priced analog headphones? Probably not. My old Shure 840 had a better sound for 1/3 the price.
But I actually like not being encumbered with wires and having the headphones suppress the air conditioning hum and other random noises around the office. The ambient hum would go through my old Shure, despite being closed-back. I often like having the Sony on my ears just for the noise-cancelling, with no audio coming through.
The issue with bluetooth is the lag, though. I don't really care about that as I mostly listen to music or watch movies, but if lag is important to you (say for video-conferencing or games) then the usb-wireless may be a better route. But I get the feeling that those models don't really attempt to address high audio quality.
This hasn't been the case for many many years. Most decent motherbords come with on board sound on par with 200 usd external DACs. Thinkpad laptops as well. Did blind tests with coworkers who owned DACs - they could not tell.
My (old) MBP sounds great to me. My (much newer!) HP ProBook has hissing and various random noises when I move the mouse, and I can hear this even with cheap headphones tailored for conferencing. Don't know how "accurate" either one is, but no hissing wins for me every time.
I think you nail it with most decent motherboards. There are a lot of computers on the market, especially laptops, that are just cheap and try to get away with whatever low quality components and engineering they can. In particular, I'm thinking about HP "enterprise" models which are just awful. Their target audience doesn't really care about audio quality, so why would they? Most people don't have a choice when it comes to their work computers, so they may end up stuck with something mediocre. Then again, most people don't care, so there's probably not much hope to see any improvement on this front...
Is there any benchmark out there for bluetooth audio lag vs usb-wireless?
However, I remember some fifteen years ago a friend of mine had a pair of wireless headphones that had no perceptible lag when playing games. They weren't USB, they would plug in a standard audio output, though.
I also have a Jabra kit with a base that connects to the computer via USB and a wireless headset. This seems to have much less lag than BT, but I don't know how the two communicate nor how little lag there actually is.
I expect the "gaming" USB models to work similarly.
i used logitech h600 for a decade, they had a usb-bt dongle which connected instantly, the range was good, they were lightweight an cost around 60euro at the time. i liked them but the battery died.
replacement is 50% heavier has no mic-arm and the bt connection is a mess everytime.
i'd say no, bt-headphones have not improved.
BT is very convenient for me for work. I own Bose Quiercomfort 35 II. Active noise cancelation, simultaneus phone and laptop connection. Good sound quality. Range is very small compared to RF, lag, linux BT in headset mode has bad quality. Occasional pairing issues all solved in 1 minute but annoying.
My wired set is Sony MDR-1AM2. Same price range as the Bose. The sound quality is so far ahead of the BT that I can't listen to music on the Bose without feeling cheated. You just plug them to whatever you need and don't worry about anything, battery, range or interference, pairing, etc. Comfort is also better because of the weight.
Overall I would say unless you have some special need wireless is more headaches and low quality sound. Get a good wired pair of phones with microphone (my Sony has it) and get a cheap true wireless pair for the road (I have Xiaomi TWE 2) and that's it.
Currently I have - wired Sennheiser PC 350 SE - mic quality is good - Sony WH-1000XM3 - mic quality is mediocre
I'm quite happy with my Sennheiser, but now more and more often I have noisy environment around, so I would prefer to have noice canceling + be able to walk around the flat when I'm on conf calls.
My understanding is that right now, even with BT 5.0, I shall not expect a high quality codec as all duplex profiles (HFP/HSP) use low quality codes (ref: https://habr.com/en/post/456182), but I would be OK something with a dongle too, as long as it works OK on Linux. I was contemplating EPOS Adapt 560, but after watching many tests by CallOne (https://www.youtube.com/c/CallOneInc/videos) I'm just not too impressed. And also, I have no idea how those will work on Linux... Any recommendations?
If you don't mind having different gear for conferencing, I use a Jabra Engage 75 [0] which works great on Linux. Lag is unnoticeable to me. Audio quality is terrible for music, though, especially compared to something like the Sony.
[0] https://www.jabra.com/business/office-headsets/jabra-engage/...
As I mention in the article I'm not a fan of Bluetooth, though I do use that on mobile devices. Some have better connection and codec support (depends on Bluetooth version and phone too). I have to say the Corsair wireless headset I reviewed and use, has been quite good. Audio quality in terms of wireless is great, never a problem there. I haven't tried to specifically measure lag, but nothing I noticed at least.
So I can compare more directly with what you know in the HD555. The Senn's are more comfortable (lighter, a little softer in all places) and have a clearer, more natural sound, to me. The Corsair's sound good to me as well, but tuned differently (as I wrote, more multimedia focused). I haven't tried equalizers, but that's always an option.
The wireless freedom is great. I use a wired keyboard and mouse at the desk, but headphones always have a wire moving around the desk, getting caught on something, or just annoying if I want to get up and move a little in the room.
Happy to answer any other questions. For me, the Corsair hits a nice price point and quality, works well for what I want. The higher end wireless ones quickly get more expensive, and I'd imagine that money would get you more in a non-wireless set, at least in terms of listening quality.
[0] http://mikebeauchamp.com/misc/sennheiser-hd-555-to-hd-595-mo...
555 to 595, I bought the headphones for the exact same reason. I'm very sad they don't manufacture them anymore, I love this pair.
Using the 3.5mm output jack of the computer into a bluetooth transmitter works much better for me. 3.5mm does the one thing it should do, transmit the audio signal, without all kinds of unwanted software side effects, the PC has no clue what I do with my headphones and given the bugs mentioned above that's a good thing.
I wonder what's wrong with my system to have such bad USB audio experience :/
I have an HP laptop with Win10 and it shows all the kinds of problems you described and more... with a standard 3.5mm jack. Youtube/VLC will freeze as soon as I plug in a headphone, Skype/Zoom will crash and end my call. Some games will continue sending audio through the laptop speakers, and only switch if I restart the game. Others will just stop outputting any audio.
I really did not think this was possible, I thought the headphone jack was just a physical switch that sends signals one way instead of the other.
Software engineers can and will find a way to fuck up your life, even if the problem has been solved for a century now.
However, I mostly use it connected to an external USB DAC and it works (mostly) ok.