Ask HN: How to get rid of impostor syndrome?

50 points by enroxchd ↗ HN
After working on too many projects in totally different domains, using different languages, how can one get rid of the feeling as if all these years' efforts are nothing more than illusion?

I feel as if the only thing I know is how to pick up any new stuff fast, but ultimately it's not gonna last.

70 comments

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Don't focus on the imposter syndrome itself. If you do, you'll assume the solution is to learn more.

In reality, the solution is to work on your fears of failure, of looking ignorant, or of being a fraud.

To be clear, you always can (and hopefully will) be discovered ignorant. It happens often as you grow as a person. You should learn to tolerate that fear and see it as normal and human, rather than something to try to destroy with extra education.

You can also learn social skills that make those inevitable situations (where you fail or are wrong) easier to deal with. If you're intellectually humble and listen to your peers' ideas, you can share in the "blame" for the defeat.

Not sure if it'll be helpful to you. But for me stoicism (https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/stoicism/) as a philosophy made my life so much easier. I don't remember last time if ever I had ever had an impostor syndrome.

The crux of that philosophy is that you should only worry about things that are in your control. Most things in life aren't such as the made up comparisons of you vs other people.

The other solution that helped me is just to get good at one thing (for me it was keyboard optimizations). So I have at least something I can say I am better than probably anyone.

Thanks, believe it or not it helps to get any pointers on this.

I started my career working in C++, Ruby on Rails and Sybase in Investment Banking. Then moved to Telecom and it was Python, C++, Javascript, Oracle, and MongoDB. Few years later I'm working on Cloud (AWS, Azure, Golang and .NET Core). Again after few more years it's Golang, C++, Image Processing, machine Learning, ReactJS and AWS.

In a span of 6 odd years having to learn all this, it's been taking toll on me as I didn't know where I was going with all this. Hence the feeling of being lost :-)

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So, I am 53 years old, a white guy with two engineering degrees, who's been programming for a while now. I still get imposter syndrome, whenever I am on a new project where we're using a new technology. So don't get too hung up on the idea that you're going to get rid of it.

BUT, now that you know (intellectually) that it's a normal mental illusion, it can be disregarded. This doesn't make it stop happening, any more than knowing about the blind spot makes it stop being a blind spot. But, you know not to listen to it, like you know that something disappearing in your blind spot doesn't really mean it's not there.

In fact, I now use it as a metric of whether or not I'm learning enough new tech, or if I'm staying with what I'm comfortable in too much (which is a path towards obsolescence when you're a programmer). When I get feelings that I recognize as Imposter Syndrome, I know (intellectually) that it means I'm working on new knowledge, and that's a good thing. It doesn't make the feelings go away; learning more about the new thing will eventually help with that (temporarily). But intellectually I know I've worked on enough projects to not be an imposter, more or less by definition, and I know that the feelings of "I don't know what I'm doing maybe I'm not cut out for this" are normal, and not an accurate guide to whether or not I am able to do this. They are, of course, an indication that I need to keep working on learning whatever the new thing is.

Thanks rossdavidh, I guess I just need to be confident on what I have achieved so far and should just keep moving forward.
Keep moving forward is the answer. Imposter syndrome can knock you down, which isn't the issue. It's if you don't get back up. In life you will fail–full stop. You've just got to push through.
https://imgur.com/gallery/dzbQCj4

Trust in the fact that whatever state you're in now, you'll be in the other one soon enough.

Trust that this is true for everyone.

With mastery and experience comes faith -- that is, an attitude of trust that permits unfettered action -- in the fact that the oscillation will continue. There is not any guarantee that you'll always be a space-god and never a dog; just the promise that you'll always come back to the other state from whichever one you're in.

> "I feel as if the only thing I know is how to pick up any new stuff fast, but ultimately it's not gonna last."

Get deep expertise in one or more fundamental domains where knowledge doesn't age out fast. Things like performance analysis, security, etc. that apply regardless of what language or framework you're working in. All that "useless" stuff taught in college that some HNers like to look down on turns out not to be so useless after all since they underlie everything about how software and computers work and evolve slowly. And if diving deeper into tech areas is not your thing, fundamentals in other areas like business, leadership, etc. also are timeless and valuable tools if you make the effort to add them to your toolbox.

If you don't want to feel like an impostor, get to a point where it's demonstrable, even to yourself, that you aren't. Sure, there's always someone better out there but there's always someone not better too and with effort, you can make sure that there are more of the latter.

Maybe it's part of a mechanism that keeps you balanced? like with anxiety your ego go berserker? Perhaps it's not a bad thing.
Thanks, I guess so. Reality has funny way of making people realise their place :-)
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I think most people who think they have impostor syndrome don't. Instead they accurately estimate the gaps in their knowledge but are working under conditions that allow them to bypass those gaps by using machines / libraries / frameworks and other types of automation.

If you know you will not be able to answer some things when asked about them - then you know you lack a specific piece of knowledge. That is not impostor syndrome.

I think it depends on where you are relative to the standard. You may be under the mistaken impression that the ability to understand and explain everything from the application to the silicon is baseline for a working software engineer, and because you can’t you’re a pretender. But it doesn’t make sense to think of yourself as an imposter when most everyone you would think of as “real” meets the same criteria.
Right, what if there are indeed many impostors in the industry? Going by some of the threads on hiring, job applications, promotion criteria etc., there may be quite some people who aren't quite up to the job they are doing, e.g. non-fizzbuzzing programmers, people taking credit for others' work etc.

Ultimately, you have to look at the specifics and some objective criteria. What are your achievements? How does your understanding and skills compare to you peers? Be careful not to get fooled by bullshitters who just pretend to know by using lots of fancy buzzwords in random sequence. You can only tell this through deeper technical conversations.

There's a lot of feel-good answers out there that boil down to "oh, nobody has any idea what they are doing anyway, everyone is just winging it" etc. This is not true. Through conscious effort you can master and build strong mental models of technical systems and processes. It's entirely possible to feel confident in one's expert knowledge of a field after many years of experience. It doesn't mean you feel invincible, and much of this kind of knowledge is indeed about your own gaps of knowledge but also knowledge of pitfalls and illusions of easy answers and knowing when you're entering unexplored but enticing territory that feels simple to beginners, but you expect it to be extremely complex as an expert, etc.

Keep on learning and studying. If you feel embarrassed that you don't understand a particular thing and this bothers you, take some time and dive into it. In my experience there is no better cure than to realize that everything in tech can be understood. It's all logical from the highest part of the stack down to the lowest electronics level. Once you gain enough experience and have a rough mental map of this whole territory, you will know that there's a lot of details you could learn if needed, but not everything is worth knowing for your own case. Apply an engineering approach to this as well. You have a limited lifetime and no single person can know everything. That's the constraint. Now pick out the actually important parts and discard those that aren't necessary for your development. And feel comfortable that you will pick up whatever is needed along the way.

It's a similar case with general personal confidence. There are people who exude this level of confidence which in effect says "Whatever happens to me, I will take care of it. If I'm dropped into a foreign land tomorrow, I know I will rebuild my life. If my house burns down, I'll recover. If I'm thrown into prison, I'll figure out how things work there and will adapt. I don't know what will happen tomorrow, but I'm prepared."

In tech, you can also not know exactly what you will have to learn in the coming years, it will never be like I've now learned everything, from now on I'll just apply it. The best you can do is have a good overall mental overview of the kinds of things that exist and be able to zoom in on any of it when needed.

These arguments run counter to practical considerations: Most programmers will inherit larger and larger codebases. So the skill and dedication for a professional steady job is reading the code well, and use that to over time learn the domain well. This may take years, or never be complete if focus is all over the place.

But what matters is also are you providing value? Increasingly value is more in inter-personal, teamwork and collaboration, rather than conjuring up magic codes nobody else can relate to.

There are simply no objective metrics. Software development is not bridge building or an engineering practice. Evidence is how everything is in flux and nothing is ever truly settled. At the same time any old code can be extremely low cost, valuable and maintainable, regardless of the code itself!

I largely agree.

> Increasingly value is more in inter-personal, teamwork and collaboration, rather than conjuring up magic codes nobody else can relate to.

The problem is, this is exactly the area where bullshitters can do well. I do think that office politics and social strategy is the most lucrative one (e.g. winning allies, getting credit and recognition and visibility, generally buzzing and being in the center of attention), but I don't think it connects much to impostor issues. You may be winning at the social game while still feeling like an impostor.

Impostor syndrome is kind of a corollary of the Dunning–Kruger effect. Since you know a lot about some discipline, you're better able to judge your gaps in knowledge, and you assume others know as much as you (because of a gap in knowledge on what others know, so you extrapolate from your on level of knowledge on that discipline, which is high).

The converse also happen, where you know enough to overestimate your knowledge of the thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

According to the Dunning-Kruger effect a majority of people overestimates themselves, so if most people thinks they have impostor syndrome then a lot of them are wrong.
No. By definition, if you overestimate yourself, you don't have impostor syndrome in that particular discipline.
Wait, you can get rid of it? I've just been living with it. I learned to recognize when a train of thought was heading in that direction, and sort of intuitively lower the weight. "Yeah, I blundered here, and my knowledge in this domain sucks. That's okay though, I'll document my mistakes for future interns, and maybe some of them will even read my notes."

Like, I still feel terrible in the moment, but the knowledge that this feeling will pass makes it bearable.

... actually, now that I think about it, the act of documenting my mistakes might be unusual. I keep a brief daily log of my activities, including stuff like time spent reading documentation or source diving for understanding. That helps my days with fewer (zero) contributions to the project still feel productive. Maybe that could help?

hahaha, thanks :-) I guess I should also start taking such notes.
Speaking purely from personal experience, I have a problem with the expanding sphere of knowledge. There was a time where there was 4 or 5 languages (basic, Pascal, C, Fortran, etc...it was a small number) and it was possible to learn a significant amount of knowledge to operate in one or more of them.

Now I look at the cloud computing space where there's hundreds of components, overlapping functionality, and nothing that easily helps me to determine what things are important to know, flash-in-the-pan fads, or long term career building skills.

But it's the same in other domains as well. There's too much Entertainment to hope to discover everything you might be interested in, there's expansion in social communication...and my monkey brain is hyperventilating over it as the things that made me feel valued (that I could take pictures, edit video, write software) have been commoditized so that my skillset isn't necessarily as spiffy as it used to be.

There are much better comments here (especially the one pointing out that 'impostor syndrome' may be characterized as a misconception about the level of required competence), but I'd like to add this:

If I understand correctly, "impostor syndrome" is a term coined by ivy league university psych counsellors. It does not apply to the workplace. It refers to ivy league freshmen not thinking of themselves as geniuses and/or mistakenly believing you have to be a genius to be admitted to the ivy league.

That doesn't seem to be your problem though. It seems more like you feel that you're not learning anything permanently. That seems unlikely but... maybe it's true? Maybe your job is all about pointless details of framework X which you then promptly forget again.

Exactly, at the end of the day I feel as if I have collected too much jargon and the real stuff I learned is lost somewhere in all that.

It's like I have accumulated too many shiny stuff, but the real gold is missing/hidden.

Are you in javascript web development? Or some other environment where you use a lot of dependencies, each of which introduces its own terminology?
Not much into Javascript these days, had worked a full year in it and couldn't keep up with the slew of frameworks and contradicting opinions on best practices.

happily hiding in the backend :-p

Being able to pick stuff up fast is a desirable skill. It enables you to debug the platform you run as well as the program you run in the platform, and it enables you to transition between projects quickly as needs change.

Bringing fresh, but worldly, eyes to existing project can help see solutions to problems that are similar to solutions in other domains that weren't apparent to those on the project long term.

Analyze how your peers and managers treat you. Do they often come to you for advice? Do they listen and trust your opinions? Are their interactions with you positive or negative? Are you being offered good new opportunities regularly? What feedback are you receiving?

It's possible people are lying to you of course, but that's pretty unusual and you'd probably see other red flags to indicate things are just not right at your job. In normal companies with normal people, you should be able to use your colleagues as good measuring sticks to whether or not you're an imposter.

The environment is infinitely more powerful than most persons. So beware projections and disregard others have. This is often what triggers impostor feelings, and is often about the environment, not you personally.

Being a newbie at anything is natural at any stage in life. Is environment supportive of that?

Think of everyone as a child. Look at them like they're 5 year olds, (only for a minute or two) and try to imagine how their whole life's timeline would have been like. Idk why but it makes me feel good about myself
Lacanian psychoanalysis / (trance) dancing.
dancing of any sort has never been my cup of tea, but psychoanalysis seems useful :-)
1.go to any psytrance festival and think about lucy in the sky with diamonds

(edit: actually it is impossible to dance with an impostor syndrome, so there you go).

2.only >lacanian< psychoanalysis. most useless kind of psychoanalysis.

It will probably never go away completely. In my experience, you can get over it faster by just being upfront about what you don’t know, because chances are people will empathize and help.

If you feel totally and completely lost still, consider therapy if it’s an option. If you have some sort of stigma against therapy, you need to throw it away. Just talking through what bothers you with a professional could help.

You don't get over it. Eventually you just stop giving a shit. This usually happens when you realize that most people are doing their jobs rather terribly and that those that are actually having a decent go at it are typically winging it quite a bit (just like you).

There are of course experts, but usually their expertise is constrained to fairly narrow niches.

Not to hijack the conversation, but seeing as some experienced devs will likely scroll through here: how does one deal with the fear of "aging out"?
If you have imposter syndrome you are growing which means discomfort. It’s a feature not a bug.
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This was one of my favorite articles on the topic: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/10/smartphone-camera-vs... (See the graphic, and his explanation).

One of the nicest things about learning, is powering through the "Jon Snow Trough," and becoming a lot more confident. We often give up, at that point, and that's a tragedy.

One of the things that I always need to accept, is that there's probably some kid in a Hanoi Internet cafe, that can totally smoke my best, but that's OK. Maybe, one day, I'll benefit from her contributions. In the meantime, I just keep doing the best I can, with what I have.

Iterative self-improvement in areas where you think you may not be doing your best. Imposter syndrome sets in for a reason. Not everyone is good by default. But the good news, you can improve. :^)
I wanted to offer alternative advice for those who aren't interested in continual self-improvement across all aspects of their lives.

I believe most of imposter syndrome is self-inflicted and other people's view of you is likely higher than your view of yourself. It's separate from self-esteem. Self-doubt has a way of creeping in and really making you feel like your contributions are not worthwhile.

Take breaks throughout the day and start with the assumption that you're not an imposter and focus on doing your job and being a valuable member of your team without focusing on the "accomplishments" of others.

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