Ask HN: I'm quitting my job, will create a game – any advice?

79 points by drinkcocacola ↗ HN
Summarizing, after a nice adventure at a startup, I'm quite tired of it. My main issue is I have a lot of decision power in this company (without being in a management role), and I know that I cannot just move to another company and do what they say. I want to have something truly mine.

I am going to create a mobile game. I already have friend who is a graphic designer (and a gamer). We are pretty excited about some ideas and mechanics we've been exploring. I don't want to create "yet another RPG" that no one will play, but a "simple", entertaining game with a well defined business model and a well defined market target that hopefully will have enough traction to generate income. HN readers. I ask for advice! Some info you may find useful

- Country: Spain - Runaway $: (Just for me, for living) 12 - 18 months - Skills: Software engineer, programming mainly for Android and iOS, with a little of JS (Vue and friends) and a little of Spring + Big Data DBs.

Please share similar experiences, any advice regarding the project (still have not decided if Unity or Unreal Engine for instance) or just some encouraging words because I will need them.

Thanks!

121 comments

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Hi, I'll like to link this suggestion (https://autosufficienza.it/en/synergistic-agriculture/) as a RPG that's for sure "any yet". I like it personally because it seems that there is not much of consciousness about this method, despite plowing since... So even if the big farmers tries them best, imho it would be nice if some people might take it on consideration. Thanks (anyway ")).
I don’t want to discourage you, and I have never built a game myself, but I have heard a lot of horror stories from small shops to large shops. If you were my friend I would recommend you read about the failures of others before you and how to avoid them. I would recommend you use lean startup principles so that you get something into users’ hands ASAP. Maybe give yourself a short deadline, like 1-3 months, and say you HAVE to have a public demo by then so users can begin telling you what works and what doesn’t.

Good luck! You have a great runway if you’re able to avoid common pitfalls. And even if you never make enough money you (probably) can get another software job easily.

Agreed on the lean startup principles/short deadline. You've got to get something into the hands of users as soon as possible. You might also want to consider doing some design up front and making a landing page. Perhaps you can gauge interest that way and receive feedback.
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I'm not saying this is the route someone should take, but the stardew guy made stardew solely to build his resume up while he was looking for a job.
From what I read in Blood, Sweat, and Pixels, he’s kind of a case study in what NOT to do. I’m very glad Stardew Valley ended up being a commercial success, but if I were his friend at any point in his process I would’ve tried to get him to get something into the users’ hands immediately.
Yes, that chapter reads like the postmortem of a failed project, except it all somehow works out in the end. It’s a fascinating story but I’m not sure what lesson to take from it.
the lesson is that there's no recipe for success. every success is blazing their own way, and for anyone trying, they too, will need to blaze their own trail.
That guy completely relied on the financial support of his girlfriend for years. I think he did some odd jobs here and there, but mostly he was just working on the game not making any income. Obviously for that game it paid off in spades, as they were millionaires pretty much overnight once it was released, but that won't be the case for every game, or in fact most games, and it's not something you should ask of your significant other most times.

I've worked on eight titles professionally working for game companies that never made the money spent developing them. It's a hit driven industry and there's no guarantees, unless you hit on an untapped market with a lot of pent up demand for something (like Natsume had been dropping the ball and releasing garbage Harvest Moon sequels for over a decade at that point, Stardew Valley came along and showed them what the fans actually wanted). Even then it's still not a guarantee.

I'm out of the video game industry now, but still work on my own games, but it's only a few hours a week here and there. I've had some success over the years, but not enough to justify asking my wife to let me quit my job and do it full time.

I didn't know that part about his girlfriend. I've had a hard time finding info on what he did.

But I wasn't suggesting that it's a "good" way to make it. I just said it's something to do to help.

There's a chapter about Stardew Valley's development in the book Blood, Sweat, and Pixels, that's how I knew about it. It's a good book and a pretty easy read. I appreciated seeing the process of how other companies and indie developers work.
I wish you the best of luck but… I strongly urge you to keep your job.
I don't have any experience other than dabbling in gamedev here and there. I definitely recommend reading Blood, Sweat, and Pixels. At the very least read the chapters about Stardew Valley and and Shovel Knight to get an idea of the challenges you will face as an indie developer.
Make an io party game - the genre is super fun to create in, was growing rapidly before COVID, turbocharged during COVID and remains underserved. Growth is built-in because of inherent sharing. Use a game engine like Playcanvas so you can publish it to web and wrap it into a mobile app if you'd like (Unity is fine too, but doesn't work on mobile web, whereas Playcanvas works everywhere). Ads monetization is of course the quick route, but if you have the patience to add cosmetics and premium levels, you can make a killing from in-app purchases.
Curious, what is an io party game?
Like skribbl.io, an online Pictionary game. Maybe also things like agar.io or slither.io, but those are less for parties I think. Jackbox.tv comes to mind as well, but obviously that isn’t .io lol

Games ending .io are generally fun, simple, multiplayer, and browser-based

Create an MMO but also an MMO framework so other people can use the framework.

The framework might actually turn out to be more popular than the game.

To be honest, I'd suggest (and this is coming from someone who has worked in the gaming industry) you'd almost be better off working strictly on a good mobile framework with a good UI than a game itself.

If you can create a low code framework, with a nice UI for would be developers, that is a much less crowded space than yet another (sorry) mobile game with 30% off the top just to be put into the IOS or Google Play stores.

It's not as sexy to non developers, but from a problem solvers standpoint, it sounds hard and from a UI developer stand point, it sounds difficult.

Working on a game engine is the ultimate (and very common) game dev trap. It's a recipe for never finishing anything as all your time and energy is eaten up trying to generalise your code to support infinite games.
It could also be argued that adding a generic game to the pile of a million games, built with the same tools that everyone else uses, and that doesn't challenge one in building it and doesn't add anything new to the industry is also a trap.
Make a non generic game then. Players don't care how you coded it.

My point is, if you want to make a game, make a game. Making an engine is the ultimate distraction. You should only be considering an engine after you have a few similar games under your belt and know there's a market for it.

I was about to suggest "yet another RPG that no one will ever play" but then I read your post with more attention.

I have this old idea around a turn based RPG game that simulates the political scenario of a developing country in an elections year. Main individual goal: to be elected for either a city, state or federal mandate. The more turns you play, the more your chances increase of climbing the political ladder up to the presidency. Corruption, ethics and media layers add the complexity to the game.

Hey, congrats for your decision to leave the startup and starting your own thing. That's the most important aspect here.

Most small businesses fail. Are you okay if that happens?
Absolutely, I know my odds of failing are above 95% but also know that the odds of learning and having fun is 100%
just don't.

i wasted 18 months on creating a game. it was an awful time with millions of boring-but-necessary tasks and sales on mac+linux+windows were basically zero.

if i had a time-machine, this would be the one decision i'd reverse.

Is your game for sale or available? I'm releasing my first game now and am curious to see examples of negative results -- since all I ever see are positive results.
Just because this was your experience doesn't mean it'll be his.
Don’t you appreciate the knowledge and experience you have now though? I’d never consider that a waste.
How do you plan to execute better than your competition? Keep in mind, any great game idea you have will be instantly poached by others who know how to execute quickly.
Try working on the game 20 hours a week while keeping your job. If you truly love the concept and love working on it while still working full time, that'd be a good sign to potentially scale it up with your full 60-80 hours you'll be spending.
this is the best advice here
I'd agree with this, as someone that is doing this (though have no intention to leave my job). WFH has made it easier than ever to find the time, which admittedly isn't easy, but turning it into a grand life decision does make for a convenient excuse to put off just sitting down and starting it
This might be ideal, but some people would not have the energy to do that much work in a week, and since the OP has a 12-18 month runway and probably can get another software job easily and quickly should they need to, it doesn’t feel as necessary in this case. But I do agree in general, and it would be wonderful to never dip into savings at all.
Have you ever done this though? This is how I started and progress was impossibly slow.

At some point you’re just draining yourself of every spare hour, you’re underperforming at your day job, and you’re not really moving forward.

It’s ok to do for a month or so as a litmus test, but after that I fully support diving in full time (in full knowledge that there’s a 95% chance you’ll fail).

You can always get another job.

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A lot of entrepreneurs have to bootstrap this way. I personally don't have interest in starting my own business. However, I have played music intensely for years while studying and working. It's do-able, you just have to have the passion and dedication in your off-time that overcomes tiredness. If you can't do it while fully employed with benefits, if you don't have the devotion then, how will you with even less structure and when finances start running tight?
You might want to watch this for inspiration: Short Hike Post-mortem (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW8gWgpptI8) about single developer struggles. Of course, this is one of successful stories, so your mileage might (and will) vary. Give yourself tight deadlines and see if you can stick to them. Do not be afraid to bail out early, if you see that game development is not working out. I'd suggest keeping your daily job until you at least have minimal working prototype of your game and get positive feedback.

As for games on mobile platforms, be prepared if you will create something new and unique - it will have dozen of clones on day three after launch.

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You'll only know if you can succeed if you try.

Even if you do succeed, expect growth to take 1000x more energy/focus/time than you realize. How will you get your game to stand out? Organic growth is like planting a seed. It grows slowly. But within a couple of years you'll have a tree.

When I launched my side project I had this dream of hundreds of people signing up within the first days/weeks. In reality, 1 person did. Who cancelled a few days later. However I'm now 3+ years into it and it provides for me and my loved ones.

Also... be prepared for a lot of mental games. Thoughts like "what am I doing?", "you're going to fail", etc. Being on your own takes a mental toughness I never imagined.

Having done exactly this, I say have a blast and enjoy the freedom to create, but be prepared to re-enter the industry because that’s almost certainly what you’ll have to do.

I put my time working on my game on my resume, and it did help me get good jobs in gaming and VR, that I probably wouldn’t have landed otherwise.

Speaking from many, many years of experience:

Cash is king. Nothing is more important than cash flow. A runway is not a development budget -- it is a loan in the form of opportunity cost. Always look for income at all times. And never, ever borrow money for the project.

Regarding people, keep active contacts with other people. Do not shelter behind closed doors. The world moves quickly, and if your team withdraws into its own bubble for 12 months, when you emerge you will find the world to be very different.

Regarding tech, Unity will work better than Unreal because a small team needs to reduce technical overhead as much as possible.

Regarding gameplay, favor simplicity over complexity.

Regarding art, maintain a cohesive and unique style across all elements of design.

Regarding players, start looking for them from day 1. It takes a long time and a lot of work to build a following. And remember, the players are not your customers -- they are your new boss.

As a just average Joe gamer, art style makes or breaks a game. If you pick a style, stay with it. Indie games like stardew, skullgirls, don't starve, papers please, punch club, and darkest dungeon all proved graphics don't sell games, especially on mobile. If anything word of mouth has probably helped most of those. But mostly, the art style is visually appealing and doesn't look like lazy garbage.
More actionable, the choice of colors and their combinations is the key ingredient for cohesive and tight art direction. Pixel art, vector art, low-poly 3D - they all rely more on good colors than on shapes.

It's quite hard to pick each color from color picker wheel and ending up with something decent. Much better approach is to use pre-assembled palettes like ones on lospec.com/palette-list collection. My favorite versatile palette is edg32, but others will work better for certain moods. Working with more than 30-is colors requires experience and patience.

These guidelines can help to build something that catches attention, and assets tend to be simpler and easier to iterate on.

All sound advice, from what I can tell.

Regarding your profile, when I read it I feel like I am already in the middle of a game.

Make peace with the fact that "you're making a game". I did this a while back, but the thought of "you're not working, you're building some stupid game no one will play, you should be working" made me quit and get a job. So, this is my advice for you: make peace with the fact that you're building a game.
I built games full time for about five years, straddling the transition into smartphones.

Building a mobile game that is profitable is a bit like the lottery. You need to build something great to have a chance of winning, but building something great is not a guarantee that you will win. I realize that goes for most business ventures, but I think it is more true for mobile games than most.

What captures the imagination of an audience is in large part a guessing game and a matter of luck. You can look at past successes as a demonstration of that. Flappy Bird was a hit for a bit but it wasn't exactly clear what was so different about it than so many before. Angry Birds started an insane franchise, but I'm not sure if the same game were launched today whether it would capture the same share of the market. It is just really really ephemeral.

But making games is fun, like really fun! I had more fun in those years than I have at any other point in my career. We were banging out a game a month and having a blast doing it. This was very early so we knew there was audience enough for each of those to pay the bills, but I wouldn't count on that these days.

So all of that to say, do it! But don't expect to pay the bills doing it. Maybe you will, maybe you won't, but it is very much either rags or riches with very little predictability on where you arrive.

I should add that we decided to stop doing this when we realized we were now playing the lottery for a living. We had a few times where we got featured in stores and made thousands a day but didn't take off from there and that was that for that title.

If I can offer any advice it is to focus on simple mechanics and keep production costs way down. Don't spend more than three months on launching your first title.

Funny how "lottery" is the word that comes out the most when we talk about making games for a living.

Big studios solve this by publishing games by the hundreds.

Right. Ya, in truth I think the big studios were all built off a single hit. And those hits keep paying out for a long time and they leverage either the brand to build sequels or just start stringing out new titles hoping another will "hit". Cross-marketing is huge too.

You can be successful building mobile games, just like you can win the lottery. :)

When reviewing the history of ID Software I came upon an interesting fact: Back in Softdisk, i.e. before ID was a thing, the team managed a product called "Gamer's Edge", which is a bi-monthly subscription service (people nowadays would love the idea) that gave players two full games and a bunch of other smaller tools.

I'm wondering if indie teams should more or less do the same if they are not eyeing big hits, which few managed to pull off. Two months might be too stingy, but with the engine and tools built it might not be impossible to pull off a by quarter subscription?

That's anninsane schedule that cannot be pulled off with today's audience expectations.

The main creator of the 10mg collection was on the Eggplant Show recently and talked about releasing games quarterly and how unsustainable that is.

Yeah agreed it's too fast. Back in 90s there was way less demand on resources.
I'm following the Sokpop collective, they are 4 developers that have committed to releasing 2 games per month. The main source of income seems to be Patreon subscriptions, but games also get released on Steam.

Every one game is quirky, vibrant and fun. For few of them I was disappointed that devs moved on instead of continuing working to bring out the potential, but after a while they would return to same concept and release a sequel.

Wow I never heard about them, that's awesome! Immedaitely browsing their webpage...
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While I agree that making games in general is a bit of crapshoot, I think that there is a way that you can increase your chance of success. Based on what I understand from creating businesses in general.

If you target a specific group people initially, and make something 'for them'. As one of them. You place yourself in a much greater position to succeed than if you had simply made a game in the abstract in the terms of who it is for.

A great example of this is the FIFA franchise. And most of the football related franchises for that matter. It seems like if you meet the criteria of making a great game, as the OP has stated, failing within these categories is in some ways, harder than succeeding.

Consider your runaway to be 6 to 9 months. Shit happens (and will happen). Good luck!
Tell your friend in design they aren't allowed to create any original content. They have to do everything using stock or readily available material. Build a proto. If the proto has any legs or fun, you've got something. You don't need to quit your job to know this yet.
Making games is like gambling, and all rules of gambling apply:

- Do not gamble money that you are not prepared to lose.

- Do not gamble all your money at once.

- Know when to cut your loses and quit.

- Luck does not last forever.

Make the game first, earn money from it, then quit.
Best advice I got in a similar situation:

Don't plan to do any work in the first month.

I ended up doing a ton of cleaning / organizing my apartment. Straightened out finances. Started journaling. Tried things like taking freakishly long walks.

After a month I not only felt ready to work, but also that I had prepped a lot of useful habits!