I find it pretty hard to believe. I wonder if the statistic takes in account factors like the size of the protest (large sizes alone can be seen as threatening) or the attitude of protesters- I imagine that left-wing protesters can be more confrontational than right-wing ones, especially when the issue at hand is police violence and partly because rightwing people might see the police more as an ally than a threat (because law-and-order and general conservativism).
I stopped protesting (marching) in the mid 2000s. It didn't seem to be noticed, or in any way effective, less so over time. Then my (school aged) son and I got caught in the middle of a sudden kettling while waiting for the bus.
I determined authorities were only too happy to use violence. Per that John Lennon quote. And once there's any violence, whatever message or intent is immediately lost.
So I turned to activism, lobbying instead. That seems more fruitful.
Independent of everything else, because I do have a lot of opinions, I am delighted by two developments since.
The peaceful women's march was really remarkable. I wish I knew how they avoided or short circuited the backlash.
I'm so heartened that the BLM and adjacent issues went mainstream this time. (I'm less impressed by the bored frat boys LARPing as Antifa in places like Portland. After WTO, I personally intervened to stop such nonsense where I could. Like I said, I have opinions.)
I guess I have one more opinion. I wholeheartedly support people's right to protest, march, speak, whatever. So I have zero problem with Trump supporters doing their thing and think it's fantastic we live in a place that's encouraged. Civil disobedience, rallies, occupy, whatever. I support it all.
But goddammit cut out the violence. Violence only begats more violence.
“ The disparity in police response only grew when comparing peaceful leftwing versus rightwing protests. Looking at the subset of protests in which demonstrators did not engage in any violence, vandalism, or looting, law enforcement officers were about 3.5 times more likely to use force against leftwing protests than rightwing protests, with about 1.8% of peaceful leftwing protests and only half a percent of peaceful rightwing protests met with teargas, rubber bullets or other force from law enforcement.”
So it’s actually worse when you take into account how peaceful the protests were.
Being confrontational doesn't mean being violent. Non-violent ways to be confrontational can include refusing to disperse, not staying within the previously agreed spaces (if any), occupying public space, harassing the police, etc. And the sheer mass of protesters can be already intimidating and cause a police reaction if things are not extremely well managed.
Btw, I was looking for large right-wing rallies in the US, and couldn't find any. The "unite the right" rally seems to have gathered a few hundred people in all. Compare with the largest BLM rally in Washington DC, 200 thousand people. How do you compare these two (even if the participants to the first are nazi-like nutters and those of the other are normal left-wing citizens)?
And the "unite the right" are the nutters. Where are the large (tens of thousands of participants) rallies of the moderate right? Like the "keep taxes low" rally and the "no medicare" rally?
True, but keep in mind there were 511 left-wing protests and 33 right-wing protests and the use of force was measured in the single digit percentages for both.
At least where I am, one of the tactics that the right-wing protestors engage in is to walk right up to the limit of the law and greatly antagonize the left-wing counter-protestors. When the counter-protestors respond, they play the victim card and the police arrest the left-wing.
Sort of like antagonizing a kid on the playground and then telling teacher when you get socked. Sure it may not be right for the person you antagonized to hit you, but you knew exactly what you were doing.
Yeah, I don't really give a shit about down-votes but it is interesting. I am not making this shit up. And I am not defending the right-wing at all, its all abhorrent behavior.
There are maybe 150 million Americans who support BLM. Some of these protests were just a few dozen people.
America is a really freaking big place. I forget that until I read something like "500k vaccines per day means we're 2 years away from everyone getting 1 shot".
I'm going to pretext this with saying I can't like or dislike the US policing system, because it doesn't affect me directly. I can only comment on what I've been seeing through media/social media/etc.
It's tough. People are emotional. People are going to make mistakes. Sometimes mistakes are more likely to present themselves when faced with certain situations.
Just like people aren't perfect, police aren't perfect. Whether it's truly the belief of hundreds of thousands on the left, or if it's just the usual social media amplification of minority opinions - the general rhetoric of the rioters (separate from protestors) is "all cops are bad", "defund the police", "cops are pigs", "kill all cops" etc.
When you're the very people that are tasked with "maintaining the peace" and there's thousands of people rioting (leading to in one case that I know of, the abandonment and eventual burning down of a major precinct), of course there's going to be situations where police make mistakes or act with their emotions - especially when their superiors (chiefs, government officials, etc) are condoning and debatably encouraging the protests/riots with their statements/rhetoric.
Likewise with the other side, there are several videos that were circulating online of hundreds/thousands of people rioting in city centers and you have the select few "ruining" it by lighting things on fire, throwing improvised bombs/fireworks at officers, shooting and killing officers in broad daylight while they're sitting in their cars on break.
Of course officers tasked with riot control are going to be a bit more heavy-handed in how they react. Likewise - of course rioters are going to "take it to the next level" - it's an arms race that nobody can win.
It's frustrating to go and look at it from both sides and how pig-headed (ha) both of them are. There's absolutely ZERO compromise on either side - and I have no concrete idea/theory what has happened in modern society to promote this division and one-sidedness.
You're incorrect that you can't like or dislike the US policing system and that it doesn't affect you. If you're in the US, it affects you, because it affects society as a whole. Even if you're not in the US, the actions of the US police are worldwide news that affect everyone (see the anti-police brutality protests worldwide).
If you can walk down the street and not get stopped because you're not white, the system is affecting you, just positively.
As for "people are going to make mistakes" let me just remind you that police broke into Breanna Taylor's apartment late and night without announcing themselves and without their body cams turned on. That led to her death. First of all, that's not a mistake, that's an idiotic plan. Second of all, when people make mistakes that lead them to shoot innocent people to death, you don't get to shrug and say "people make mistakes." If you're walking around with a gun and a badge and the ability to take away people's freedoms then no, you don't get to make mistakes. You have to be held to a very, very high standard to have those abilities. And when you make a mistake like kneeling on someone's neck for six minutes until he dies while he tells you he can't breathe, that's not a mistake. That's a murder.
You acting like people coming into the streets and saying all cops are bad AFTER cops have murdered dozens of black people is ridiculous. You sound very much like Trump saying there were good people on both sides at Charlottesville.
It's similar to compare BLM protests to the attack on the Capitol. One of them was a response to people being murdered, and the other was a planned protest that was an attempt to invalidate a lawful election.
I honestly think people like you are some of the worst out there - intelligent enough to understand what's happening and yet without the moral sense to understand the difference.
For better or worse, I don't think it's all that surprising that police end up being more hesitant to fire rubber bullets at a group of protesters with rifles slung over their shoulders.
100% agree - it also makes sense that when they're hugely outnumbered and have no backup, they're a lot less likely to fight. That's why it's so baffling that the response to protests where people were actively talking on social media about being armed involved so little preparation and such a small number of police.
The last time a bunch of minorities exercised their "Second Amendment" rights, funnily enough a bunch of gun control laws went through tout suite.
Civil rights didn't come about because the establishment liked Martin Luther King. Civil rights came about because the establishment was MORE afraid of the Black Panthers, et al.
I'm not sure if I agree with the second graph, but more context on the first sentence: Conservative hero Ronald Reagan implemented California's gun control laws in response to Black Panthers (legally) arming themselves.
The title could have been legitimately rephrased as "Left wing protesters three times as likely to require police force" saying exactly the same thing with the opposite framing.
One possible explanation is there is more “egoboo” in left-wing protestors being assaulted by police than right-wing protestors being assaulted, both in street cred and in images that can be used for recruitment.
Left wing - “This anonymous authority figure, who I will never meet at the local events in my parent’s neighborhood in million years, is using PHYSICAL FORCE (against my illegal(?) physical acts)...honor my martyrdom and visit my Facebook page!!!”
Right wing - “Clem, if things get rough, we will get various body parts kicked and it will make us look like wimps. And I do not want to risk losing my concealed carry. Anyway, doesn’t your cousin work for the Force? How am I going to explain that to Lucille at the Memorial Day picnic? Let’s be effective rather than violent...that’s what the ol’ Colonel said...say, doesn’t Jim-bob work for the power company in the big city?”
30 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 77.6 ms ] threadPolice forces have been pushing left-wing protestors to use violence in order to justify crackdowns for decades.
If leftwing protestors were more violent they wouldn't need to use such techniques.
I determined authorities were only too happy to use violence. Per that John Lennon quote. And once there's any violence, whatever message or intent is immediately lost.
So I turned to activism, lobbying instead. That seems more fruitful.
Independent of everything else, because I do have a lot of opinions, I am delighted by two developments since.
The peaceful women's march was really remarkable. I wish I knew how they avoided or short circuited the backlash.
I'm so heartened that the BLM and adjacent issues went mainstream this time. (I'm less impressed by the bored frat boys LARPing as Antifa in places like Portland. After WTO, I personally intervened to stop such nonsense where I could. Like I said, I have opinions.)
I guess I have one more opinion. I wholeheartedly support people's right to protest, march, speak, whatever. So I have zero problem with Trump supporters doing their thing and think it's fantastic we live in a place that's encouraged. Civil disobedience, rallies, occupy, whatever. I support it all.
But goddammit cut out the violence. Violence only begats more violence.
“ The disparity in police response only grew when comparing peaceful leftwing versus rightwing protests. Looking at the subset of protests in which demonstrators did not engage in any violence, vandalism, or looting, law enforcement officers were about 3.5 times more likely to use force against leftwing protests than rightwing protests, with about 1.8% of peaceful leftwing protests and only half a percent of peaceful rightwing protests met with teargas, rubber bullets or other force from law enforcement.”
So it’s actually worse when you take into account how peaceful the protests were.
Btw, I was looking for large right-wing rallies in the US, and couldn't find any. The "unite the right" rally seems to have gathered a few hundred people in all. Compare with the largest BLM rally in Washington DC, 200 thousand people. How do you compare these two (even if the participants to the first are nazi-like nutters and those of the other are normal left-wing citizens)?
And the "unite the right" are the nutters. Where are the large (tens of thousands of participants) rallies of the moderate right? Like the "keep taxes low" rally and the "no medicare" rally?
You'll see them if there's a threat of taxes going up or Medicare for all passing.
Sort of like antagonizing a kid on the playground and then telling teacher when you get socked. Sure it may not be right for the person you antagonized to hit you, but you knew exactly what you were doing.
Such as by blocking roads? Or surrounding diners?
13 000?? how the...
it's >30 per day. everyday
> what's the thing about zip ties?
I think that's in reference to participants in the capitol attack that were photographed carrying zip-tie cuffs (examples: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/zip-cuffs-capitol-riots/ and https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2021/01/11/retired-air-force...). Basically, its proof they were prepared to take prisoners/hostages.
America is a really freaking big place. I forget that until I read something like "500k vaccines per day means we're 2 years away from everyone getting 1 shot".
It's tough. People are emotional. People are going to make mistakes. Sometimes mistakes are more likely to present themselves when faced with certain situations.
Just like people aren't perfect, police aren't perfect. Whether it's truly the belief of hundreds of thousands on the left, or if it's just the usual social media amplification of minority opinions - the general rhetoric of the rioters (separate from protestors) is "all cops are bad", "defund the police", "cops are pigs", "kill all cops" etc.
When you're the very people that are tasked with "maintaining the peace" and there's thousands of people rioting (leading to in one case that I know of, the abandonment and eventual burning down of a major precinct), of course there's going to be situations where police make mistakes or act with their emotions - especially when their superiors (chiefs, government officials, etc) are condoning and debatably encouraging the protests/riots with their statements/rhetoric.
Likewise with the other side, there are several videos that were circulating online of hundreds/thousands of people rioting in city centers and you have the select few "ruining" it by lighting things on fire, throwing improvised bombs/fireworks at officers, shooting and killing officers in broad daylight while they're sitting in their cars on break.
Of course officers tasked with riot control are going to be a bit more heavy-handed in how they react. Likewise - of course rioters are going to "take it to the next level" - it's an arms race that nobody can win.
It's frustrating to go and look at it from both sides and how pig-headed (ha) both of them are. There's absolutely ZERO compromise on either side - and I have no concrete idea/theory what has happened in modern society to promote this division and one-sidedness.
If you can walk down the street and not get stopped because you're not white, the system is affecting you, just positively.
As for "people are going to make mistakes" let me just remind you that police broke into Breanna Taylor's apartment late and night without announcing themselves and without their body cams turned on. That led to her death. First of all, that's not a mistake, that's an idiotic plan. Second of all, when people make mistakes that lead them to shoot innocent people to death, you don't get to shrug and say "people make mistakes." If you're walking around with a gun and a badge and the ability to take away people's freedoms then no, you don't get to make mistakes. You have to be held to a very, very high standard to have those abilities. And when you make a mistake like kneeling on someone's neck for six minutes until he dies while he tells you he can't breathe, that's not a mistake. That's a murder.
You acting like people coming into the streets and saying all cops are bad AFTER cops have murdered dozens of black people is ridiculous. You sound very much like Trump saying there were good people on both sides at Charlottesville.
It's similar to compare BLM protests to the attack on the Capitol. One of them was a response to people being murdered, and the other was a planned protest that was an attempt to invalidate a lawful election.
I honestly think people like you are some of the worst out there - intelligent enough to understand what's happening and yet without the moral sense to understand the difference.
Civil rights didn't come about because the establishment liked Martin Luther King. Civil rights came about because the establishment was MORE afraid of the Black Panthers, et al.
"Could you even imagine a group of black people with guns drawn on the steps of a government building? Exactly.": https://www.theroot.com/the-open-america-protests-are-a-clas...
The title could have been legitimately rephrased as "Left wing protesters three times as likely to require police force" saying exactly the same thing with the opposite framing.
I wonder why there was a police presence there.
Left wing - “This anonymous authority figure, who I will never meet at the local events in my parent’s neighborhood in million years, is using PHYSICAL FORCE (against my illegal(?) physical acts)...honor my martyrdom and visit my Facebook page!!!”
Right wing - “Clem, if things get rough, we will get various body parts kicked and it will make us look like wimps. And I do not want to risk losing my concealed carry. Anyway, doesn’t your cousin work for the Force? How am I going to explain that to Lucille at the Memorial Day picnic? Let’s be effective rather than violent...that’s what the ol’ Colonel said...say, doesn’t Jim-bob work for the power company in the big city?”