Ask HN: How much do you bullshit on a CV/Resume/Interview?
On paper I'm an advanced/senior web programmer (8+ years), and I've got that experience in several aspects of development (php, mysql, html5, css3, javascript etc. by today's standards).
I reckon I have a fair grasp of UX and UI principles and contribute positively to any meetings regarding the front-ending interfaces of all projects I've been involved in.
However, I haven't got any e-commerce experience or much experience with collaborative source control (I've used git for a good few years, but not with other people).
I'm freelancing at the moment but I don't enjoy it anymore. I want to find another job.
How can I go about getting a job without any e-commerce (or proper source control) experience? Should I lie about my abilities and catch up on anything I've not groked, or just try to find something in my experience's range and hope that I'll get some experience that way?
23 comments
[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 59.2 ms ] threadI'd be able to answer all your questions, deliver results, learn anything I didn't know in a few days.
Would it be that bad in this case?
It would be better to be honest about your experience, and if you feel you are lacking in some area, get some experience in the area you need while you are looking for a job.
In this particular example, I was looking for reactions for general skills as opposed to to specific roles within a project. My apologies, I should've been clear about that.
The question is, for any individual, what do you consider an acceptable lie? What are your limits?
For me, lying on a resume is not acceptable. For others clearly it is fine.
When you start hiring people, you will quickly realize how many people claim expertise, or even awareness, of languages / systems that they dont know about. e.g. everyone who has used awk '{print $1}' claims to be an awk expert. And its kinda sad that people see such small things as acceptable.
Another greedy and grasping person willing to do anything to serve their own interests.
Yeah, I've considered lying, but not necessarily to deceive. I'd be up to date with all necessary API's within less than a week, but my point is that because I've not had any real-world experience, would it be bad to say a white lie in an industry that relies so massively on past-experience?
And has anyone else lied? Or am I the only one who would consider lying about something small in order to achieve something better?
Santa Claus for example is a well accepted lie which is okay to propagate.
I much rather have someone be honest with me, tell me they don't know, but that they will do their best to pick things up fast and learn without hindering the team, and work hard at being the best they can be than someone pretending to know something, try to pick up pieces and then still not be great at what they're supposed to know. Honesty goes a long way and I've never turned anyone down because they lack something but I've certainly turn away countless number of people who've lied even the slightest.
BS meters are easier to trigger than you may think. And honestly, there's no integrity if this was ever a passing thought.
Disclaimer: I've hired many people for my own company as well as have a slew of friends who've hired many people for their own companies/startups. This isn't something new.
You're probably no better than anyone who hires anyone else... probably on a power-hungry ego trip. Sure you can tell yourself that you can sniff a lier in an interview, but then do you hire shit employees? Probably one or two... and they're bullshitters, don't you know.
I'm not after a lecture in morals and integrity, I want to grasp the general opinions of people who've found themselves needing to perhaps lie in order to get themselves in a better position in life/job.
2. I don't think of myself more highly than anybody else. You made a statement, I had a counter point of view, and I gave my opinion.
3. Considering my last company scaled up and was successfully acquired, I think its safe to say in defense of the great team we've had, that they're not shit employees. Say and think what you want but I think its clear you're the person speaking out of anger right now. And don't let your personal anger at me for what I said out of personal opinion be the reason for you to talk smack about the team I've worked with, of which you know nothing about. They don't deserve that. You can think I'm on an ego trip all you want, I'm not.
4. I wasn't trying to give you a lecture. I gave very concise advice on what I personally look for and what I think others (including those I know) look for. Whether you value that opinion or not or believe others look for that or not is up to you. There are many companies out there that will gladly hire the right person base on their personality, culture fit, and skills irregardless of past experience (another advice you can choose to ignore if you like). Seems to me you're bent on this past experience thing base on an assumption rather than trying to see if you'll be able to land the job as a value to the company you'd be applying for.
Whatever the case may be, you can choose to disagree with me all you like. I'm not here to brag or put you down. I merely disagreed with your statement and whether you liked it or not, it's something I stand by.
If you were interviewing for a build engineering position knowledge of git-hooks and all the features would probably be important, what most companies are looking for is the ability to commit / push. Even if you had never used it I don't think it would be a deal breaker, it takes about 10 minutes to figure out git anyway.
It's hard to lie when you keep things high level and focused on verifiable work. I do want to rewrite the two wordy parts to be less...standard:
http://openmymind.net/karlseguin.pdf
What is your goal?
- Find some job? Then SEO-spam. Learn SCM (svn or git should take all of a few hours to learn on your own) and ecommerce (authorize.net and paypal api are easy to learn, and its a nice exercise to write your own gateway)
- Find a job that actually fits you? Do some soul searching and figure out what in particular excites you. You may find that some experiences are unnecessary (though SCM is definitely a must)
- Find a job that will actually excite you? Try hacking together your own project, or work on an open source project to build some street cred.
Alternatively, you can play the blog game (write a blog about stuff, and broadcast to HN, other forums or other blogrolls). I seem to recall a blog by a fellow WK Selph, (he wrote a few articles about high frequency trading) which he used to land a new job.
And if they don't figure out your lying, is that the kind of place you would want to work? Where everyone there potentially doesn't know what they're doing.
Don't bullshit - live up to what you want to be.
I just cant do it. If you lie about a skill, likely that will be the one skill they hire you for having.
I have lost opportunities where i could have easily lied or bullshitted my way into the job - but that is just not in my character.
I think that anyone who lies on their resume is pretty low in my opinion.
eg. "Technologies I'm proficient in: Python/Tornado, Java/Spring/Hibernate
Technologies I have some knowledge of: IBM Websphere"
Play it smart. There's no need to lie. If you really are good, build a case for it - in case they ask you to prove your experience. Prove to them you will sweat it out and prevail, as you have with other technologies in the past.
See, the #1 thing that I've learned in interviews is - that it's a two way conversation. Make a case and they will listen, even understand.