I dunno, at the end Putin's spokesperson said that Putin doesn't own any palaces so this seems like fake news to me /s (But actually - this thing is like a Versailles for the modern era. Unreal.)
Czar, by the way, comes from Caesar, which was both the name of Julius Caesar, and more importantly how the Roman emperors were referred to ("Give the Caesar's what belong to the Caesar"). In other words, Czar is a word for Emperor.
When Peter the Great took the name of Emperor (1721), there were lots of princes and kings in Europe, but a single Emperor - the sovereign of the Holy Roman Empire (i.e. Austria), which at the time was Charles VI. It was quite an audacity, and lots of monarchs did not recognize the title, including obviously Charles VI himself. In time they came around.
The point is, for hundreds of years following Peter the Great, the Russian Empire has perceived itself as the successor of the Eastern Roman Empire (which had the Orthodox Christian religion).
So, maybe it's not official, but Putin sees himself as a Czar, or an Emperor, not as a mere King.
Successorship/consanguinuity to the Roman empire has been claimed by more than one country as well. The Ottoman sultan who conquered Constantinople declared himself such. It's where Romania gets its name as well.
To entice people to his organization. He brings people to the palace, shows them the life of a king for a few days, and sends them home feeling warm and fuzzy about joining. No doubt the bedrooms have cameras in them to capture the blackmail-worthy acts that hold the whole cartel together.
Well Trump certainly used his position to enrich the Trump organization. But in a much more blatantly open manner. Putin is probably the single richest person on Earth, pretending to be one of the people and living off the official presidential salary of about 130000 USD.
I don't get why people with unlimited resources have such massive houses. I mean it's impressive and all, but I'd much rather have 4000 square feet (still huge) and a nice lot, all that empty space in those mansions is depressing.
Classical territory signaling, rather than example for the working class.
The small territorial footprint of Japanese economic/military prowess nearly conquered the known world and still remains the only productive society contained by weaponized fission (big stick).
Who said these mansions are empty? Common folks live with their spouse and children. Rich and powerful have a lot more people in their house: security, assistants, maids, cooks, not to mention other rich and powerful people visiting, bringing their own staff with them.
That's quite futile. Unless you're Obama and can bargain for the right to bring a regiment of guards allowed to brandish shotguns your guard stand no chance of resisting Putin's men.
Even then Obama's safety was guaranteed by Biden's ability to launch nukes, not Secret Service.
Many Palaces are toured almost empty, for example Sanssouci and Neues Palais. So if you toured them, you may forget that they were previously furnished.
One reason is explained right at the beginning of the video.
He was 6 weeks in Cannes when he got elected as new FSB chief. In Cannes he certainly visited Kashoggis villa, which is extremely similar to Putin's palace. https://www.francisyork.com/blog/palais-venitien
He only mixed in some Dresden castle bits and the St Petersburg Erimitage. It's mere representationto invite guests and show off.
The more private villa on the left down the first vinery is more likely his personal residence. It has a much better view, is not too that ugly and broken down by mold, and looks like a modern villa as in Italy, France, Dresden or the US.
> You earn a billion selling wonderbras and buy one of these - OK.
> You build one of this on corruption money while ruling the richest country with the poorest people - not OK.
They are two forms of capitalist exploitation.
Your framing excuses the ‘business‘ kind, but the underlying exploitative mechanics are really no different.
Most global north firms benefit from labor in corporate-bribed and IMF-drained regimes in the global south. Global south citizens are basically locked up in their countries, to be ruthlessly exploited by global north capitalist firms. The capitalist class wins, the working class loses.
Saying that selling someone a product they like and want at a reasonable price is just the same as ruthlessly running a dictatorship in a poor third world nation is another level of pretentious privilege. How can even you compare the two in good faith?
I understand your confusion. The capitalist class push a different narrative, a narrative which makes others’ exploitation, as well as our own, seem normal - as well as portraying capitalist production as the only viable system of production.
If you’re genuinely interested in exploring this from a systemic perspective, I can recommend Zak Cope’s ‘The Wealth of Some Nations’, as well as Vijay Prashad’s recent book ‘Washington Bullets‘, or anything written by him really.
This was not a productive comment. Those that have different views from yours are not insane.
As for how? I am not a communist but I am anti-capitalist because it’s clear to me capitalism is not going to solve the environmental crisis it created.
How does capitalism cause environmental damage any more than alternate systems, say communism, anarchism, or feudalism? Neither of those systems have avoided environmental damage where they've been implemented. The common denominator is humans.
There are a few reasons I think this. Endless growth and short term profit are two hallmarks of capitalism. They also lead to exploiting natural resources past the point of no return.
I think there’s definitely potential for harmful growth + short term thinking in socialist countries as well, especially when you factor in international competition.
But I think it could only be better than what we’re doing now.
Imo the biggest differentiator between a more capitalist society and a more democratic socialist society is who has power. In the US, it’s people and corporations with lots of money. And guess what! People and corporations with lots of money are incentivized to accelerate climate disaster if it means boosting their short term wealth.
In (ideal — I know it’s not going to work out 100% this way) democratic socialism, everyone has equal power. This will necessarily lead to a less exploitative relationship to our planet.
You can see an example of capitalist vs demsoc power dynamics in the green new deal. A majority of registered voters across parties support the GND [1]. So in a demsoc society with the same level of support, the GND would be made into law. But there’s a slim chance it’ll come to fruition in the US. Why? Because the people in power have a vested interest in not losing money, and any worthwhile GND is going to cost the rich a _lot_ of money.
But endless growth isn't the goal. Endless improvements in efficiency are, and those improvements are infinitely available in practical terms.
For instance, we have less of that precious Iowan topsoil than we did 100 years ago, but our yields are higher than ever. No endless growth required, but it has made us all better off.
Well endless growth is the goal in capitalism at the level of a publicly traded corporation, but I get what you’re saying that it can actually lead to beneficial impacts if that’s more efficient.
However, I think short term monetary efficiency and long term sustainability are not always going to align.
Is it possible there’s an alternative where we aren’t beholden to the whims of a heavily manipulated market to solve our problems? Where we can address an issue head on instead of waiting until the fix is more efficient than the problem?
Bullshit. Nobody can force me into buying wonderbras.
Sure, immense wealth translates into power, monopolies suck and antitrust regulations are the for a reason.
Still it's a far cry from running an oil state and killing adversaries.
190k square feet is massive...it’s a little less than a third the size of Versailles. Makes me wonder if the palace is built for similar political reasons. Now anyone who wants influence with Putin should build a residence nearby to attend court.
I believe most HN readers are intereted in the way corruption appears in the first place, how it prolifirates and what can be done to get rid of it.
The documentary doesn't add up to any of above. It presents very weak evidence of Putins ownership. I don't see any credible evidence of the civil servant's welth either (I don't say he isn't wealty however).
I would really like to hear an informed opinion on the subject, but I'm afraid people who have one just doesn't read HN.
Also, it's worth to mention that several people who expressed the interest to this place were thereafter persecuted by the police, including Suren Gazaryan who had to eventually leave the country and four activists that were sentenced to 8 - 13 years imprisonment.
62 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 123 ms ] threadCzar, by the way, comes from Caesar, which was both the name of Julius Caesar, and more importantly how the Roman emperors were referred to ("Give the Caesar's what belong to the Caesar"). In other words, Czar is a word for Emperor.
When Peter the Great took the name of Emperor (1721), there were lots of princes and kings in Europe, but a single Emperor - the sovereign of the Holy Roman Empire (i.e. Austria), which at the time was Charles VI. It was quite an audacity, and lots of monarchs did not recognize the title, including obviously Charles VI himself. In time they came around.
The point is, for hundreds of years following Peter the Great, the Russian Empire has perceived itself as the successor of the Eastern Roman Empire (which had the Orthodox Christian religion).
So, maybe it's not official, but Putin sees himself as a Czar, or an Emperor, not as a mere King.
The small territorial footprint of Japanese economic/military prowess nearly conquered the known world and still remains the only productive society contained by weaponized fission (big stick).
Even then Obama's safety was guaranteed by Biden's ability to launch nukes, not Secret Service.
He only mixed in some Dresden castle bits and the St Petersburg Erimitage. It's mere representationto invite guests and show off.
The more private villa on the left down the first vinery is more likely his personal residence. It has a much better view, is not too that ugly and broken down by mold, and looks like a modern villa as in Italy, France, Dresden or the US.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/home-and-garden/the-worl...
You build one of this on corruption money while ruling the richest country with the poorest people - not OK.
> You build one of this on corruption money while ruling the richest country with the poorest people - not OK.
They are two forms of capitalist exploitation.
Your framing excuses the ‘business‘ kind, but the underlying exploitative mechanics are really no different.
Most global north firms benefit from labor in corporate-bribed and IMF-drained regimes in the global south. Global south citizens are basically locked up in their countries, to be ruthlessly exploited by global north capitalist firms. The capitalist class wins, the working class loses.
So if that’s the case, is it that different?
but if you sold someone something that he genuinely wanted to buy something you legally own for the price the buyer could compare to alternatives etc
there is nothing wrong or unfair about it no matter how much you profit from such a deal
I understand your confusion. The capitalist class push a different narrative, a narrative which makes others’ exploitation, as well as our own, seem normal - as well as portraying capitalist production as the only viable system of production.
If you’re genuinely interested in exploring this from a systemic perspective, I can recommend Zak Cope’s ‘The Wealth of Some Nations’, as well as Vijay Prashad’s recent book ‘Washington Bullets‘, or anything written by him really.
As for how? I am not a communist but I am anti-capitalist because it’s clear to me capitalism is not going to solve the environmental crisis it created.
I think there’s definitely potential for harmful growth + short term thinking in socialist countries as well, especially when you factor in international competition.
But I think it could only be better than what we’re doing now.
Imo the biggest differentiator between a more capitalist society and a more democratic socialist society is who has power. In the US, it’s people and corporations with lots of money. And guess what! People and corporations with lots of money are incentivized to accelerate climate disaster if it means boosting their short term wealth.
In (ideal — I know it’s not going to work out 100% this way) democratic socialism, everyone has equal power. This will necessarily lead to a less exploitative relationship to our planet.
You can see an example of capitalist vs demsoc power dynamics in the green new deal. A majority of registered voters across parties support the GND [1]. So in a demsoc society with the same level of support, the GND would be made into law. But there’s a slim chance it’ll come to fruition in the US. Why? Because the people in power have a vested interest in not losing money, and any worthwhile GND is going to cost the rich a _lot_ of money.
[1] https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/421765-poll-ma...
For instance, we have less of that precious Iowan topsoil than we did 100 years ago, but our yields are higher than ever. No endless growth required, but it has made us all better off.
However, I think short term monetary efficiency and long term sustainability are not always going to align.
Is it possible there’s an alternative where we aren’t beholden to the whims of a heavily manipulated market to solve our problems? Where we can address an issue head on instead of waiting until the fix is more efficient than the problem?
Still it's a far cry from running an oil state and killing adversaries.
Because Amerika doesn’t do exactly that, right?
there is uderground(literally) hokkey field near palace and Putin is known to play hokkey with his friends and those who want to be
One can't help but wonder how a humble servant of the people can amass such enormous personal wealth.
And the full investigation with the documents and everything here https://palace.navalny.com/
The latter is the goal of most HN readers, so watching the video is instructive.
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-putin-dacha-activists/2506655...