I meant on my existing books. Most not available as e-books (proprietary study materials, certificate course materials, books in other languages, ...).
Right. A community exists for people who make their own book scanners: http://www.diybookscanner.org/ , but book scanning is really quite tedious and hardly worth it unless you really need one book a lot. There were previous discussions about this on HN in which the consensus was that book scanning wasn't really feasible for more than a book or two due to time.
Surely it would be a lot easier if you were willing to destroy the book in the process? You'd just need a scanner that will feed pages through like a printer, and to merge the page numbers if it's a one sided scanner.
I also like the feel of books and the easy way to mark stuff with a pencil. What I hate, though, is the weight of the books and the hassle to store them, to transport them on a daily basis (student), move them from city to city with airline luggage limits. Erases all the love I had for the convenience when reading.
The place I used to work had a hydraulic paper sheer that could cut a ream straight in half. I've also got the above mentioned Fujitsu Scansnap.
I started out by chopping the spines off those old textbooks I'd been lugging around and feeding them to the scanner. It was so easy, I started going by the used book store and grabbing handfuls of 50 cent curiosities.
It only took about 10 minutes to scan a book this way. The downside is that the book is destroyed. Think of it as a religious experience. The book can live on forever in the digital realm but it must sacrifice it's paper form to do so!
This system doesn't, but you could do something like Google did to scan books for Google Books. In the book "In The Plex" Steven Levy describes the process that they developed. They lay the book flat on a table and have two cameras mounted above it at angles. They snap a picture, turn the page, snap another picture, etc. Then they have software which corrects for the curvature of the page. Seemed pretty clever to me. It's certainly not as fast as cutting off the binding and putting it through a sheetfed scanner, but it's reasonably fast and doesn't destroy the book.
I bought a Fujitsu ScanSnap S1300 a few months ago and I love it. It's a document scanner that scans both sides of the page as it goes through, and the desktop software runs OCR and converts the document into a multiple-page searchable PDF. If something goes in crooked (like a long receipt) the software automatically straightens it out. And since Spotlight indexes the text in PDFs, I can find any document I've scanned within seconds. Storing the scans in DropBox allows me to access the scans on multiple devices, and gives me the security of an online backup. Going paperless is liberating, and the ScanSnap makes it enjoyable. Highly recommended.
Except with your set up, the OCR'ing software is independent from the scanning software, so presumably one can scan while OCR'ing. (See reply to my other comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2589018)
> According to an IRS spokesman, there are a number of ways that a taxpayer can meet the recordkeeping requirements to prove a deduction or other expense. Documentation can include hard copy or electronic records such as direct receipts, acknowledgment letters, credit-card receipts, and credit-card statements, that show the payment date, amount, recipient, and any other information required for the particular type of deduction (such as business purpose for a business deduction).
as someone that's been audited by the irs, i can tell you that having printouts of line-items from my web-based billing system, credit card statements, and copies of receipts worked fine. in fact, having everything on a computer in pdf format would probably make the whole process even easier because you could search through them all on a laptop at the audit. the auditor will probably want printouts of the scanned copies at the end, though.
No, where did you get that from? I am suggesting that there are other countries where it is required to hold on the paper copy of certain documents for tax purposes.
I scan them but I do keep the files is paper form that I'm required to. However, I only have very few files like that, and they're easy to store and manage.
The UI isn't exceptionally pretty, but once it's configured you don't have to look at it much. There are a few changes I'd like to make (being able to scan another doc while the OCR is running, preventing the scan progress window from remaining on top, etc) but functionally, the software does it's job and does it well.
I did this (also with a scan snap) and its been great. One of the things I really like is taking back issues of magazines, pulling out the two or three articles I'm interested in, scanning them and then tossing the issue.
I also got a ScanSnap S1300 after a friend of mine wrote a similar article, "The Tools of the Estate" about how he went paperless after he became the Personal Representative of his Mom's estate: http://alexvollmer.com/posts/2011/01/30/tools-of-the-estate/
Also talks about adding in DEVONThink Pro into the mix for document management and auto-classification, which I'd also recommend (though it takes a bit to get used to).
I'm very happy with the paperless setup I've got running now.
I have the same scanner and pretty much the same workflow. It scans and the documents go into my Dropbox folder under a specific folder hierarchy (e.g. taxes, kids related, house related, etc.). They're searchable but it's nice to be able to scan through them easily by subject if necessary.
As for shredding - my wife works in a medical office with those big locked garbage cans. Once a month I just drop off a box of papers into the can and they get shredded during the next pick-up.
If you already have a scanner, you can get a nice scan software with OCR functionality for $15 on the Mac App store: http://www.pdfscannerapp.com
Disclaimer: The app is a hobby project of mine which I created after desperately searching for a software to automatically straighten the awfully crooked scans my all in one printer produces.
What is the legal status for government documentation in the U.S? Are you able to keep everything in your life electronic? E.g. invoices, company documentation and so on?
(IANAL) I don't think there are any all-encompassing rule. The e-Sign act affects the legality of electronic signatures, and probably has an effect, but don't think there's a single law.
Financial institutions are able to scan everything, when I was at a CU, we used Fujitsu scanners (fi-6140 - amazing workhorse) and destroyed everything except original mortgage notes.
The only area I know of that's problematic is scanning and archiving documents under apostille. Apostilles are arcane, and their validity is related to the seal remaining intact. They're pretty: for example, I've seen docs from China with the apostille attached to documents using a ribbon and a wax seal. Try scanning that.
This is off-topic, but his blog is not only readable but has a very distinctive design/feel to it. It immediately reminded me of these two fantastic articles that have appeared on HN before.
Yeah, they're very interesting. I have to say though that I find the way they flick in and out of existence as the section header itself moves on and off screen a bit distracting. I'd have gone with something a bit more like iOS sticky scroll list dividers--on a lot of iPhone list widgets, if there's a header in the middle of a scrolllist, it sticks the top of the screen as you scroll past it (until you hit another one). Not sure how exactly you'd do this in a sidebar tho....
The first thing I thought is "what rhythm!". Steve, thanks so much for making the whole deal opensource - this is exactly the sort of design I've been gravitating towards. I especially love the main blog page and lack of pagination on anything - it feels like the first blog I've seen that actually gets it.
Does anyone know how valid digital copies of important documents are? Suppose you have a signed contract, or a bank statement, or a government document. When you need some document for legal purposes (say, to enforce a contract in court), will they be treated to be as valid as paper?
That was my main fear for tossing "important" documents.
The extremely important stuff (tax returns, car title, etc) I scan and keep the originals in a fireproof safe. That way I have the originals if I really need them, but I can still use Spotlight to just look up something quickly.
Everything else (pay stubs, utility bills, receipts, etc) I shred.
I went with the ScanSnap 300M and Evernote, and I'm pretty happy with it. Evernote automatically syncs your docs and does OCR server-side. I can do full text searches of all my scanned documents from any of my devices, including iPhone and the web site.
I'd love it even more if it were a completely standalone WiFi device that added scanned documents to my Evernote account. Does Doxie actually work completely standalone?
I wouldn't really trust Evernote with anything that reveals a whole lot of my personal information though, which is why I'm still looking for a solution that's as simple as Evernote but local.
Evernote is a great product with some surprising UI deficiencies-- did you know you can't tag multiple documents at once without drag/drop? That was a dealbreaker for me.
It's not 100% perfect, but it gets the vast majority of text which is plenty for my needs.
It seems to have a bit of trouble with serif text, but since most of the stuff I'm scanning is in a sans-serif font (the only exception I can think of was an Amazon invoice) it's not really a problem in practice.
Im still waiting for a shareable paper scanner that doesnt need to be connected to computer or can be connected to a headless server such as WHS.
Im using a Fujitsu ScanSnap with my laptop but its a far from perfect solution. If i am able to print wirelessly, I should be able to scan wirelessly too :(
They're scanners that email the scans to an email address. Or have a small http file server you access to get at the scans on the machine. Otherwise I can't really think of any other simple way to do it.
Do you have an example of a headless scanner(not connected to a pc or connected to a monitor-less pc) that will email the scans somewhere or save it over network share?
The Canon PIXMA MX870 lets you scan and print over wifi. On a Mac you can even use Image Capture. It shows up under "Shared". I'm sure other Canon scanners have this feature as well.
I've been (almost) 100% paperless for a few years now using EarthClassMail.com.
For about $40/month they scan all my paper mail for me (this is a chore I wouldn't want to do) and I never see a physical piece of mail.
- the PDF's are all archived online indefinitely
- if you get something physical (new credit card) they can forward it for $2-3
- packages you get shipped to your current address so no forwarding fee
- if you move often (as I do) then you can keep the same mailing address indefinitely so you never have to update your mailing address with dozens of different institutions, miss bills, etc (this is a huge hassle removed)
Only downsides so far...
- the documents aren't OCR'ed
- their web interface in clunky, but useable
- hand written thank you notes/bday cards just don't carry the same sentimental value looking at a scan online
Otherwise I'm pretty happy with it. I started using it while living abroad, but decided to keep it since I've been back in the U.S. - I wouldn't want to go back to opening paper mail.
If you are worried about that even with their privacy policy, you can have them just forward the mail to you physically without scanning. ECM doesn't scan the contents of your mail by default, only the outside of the envelope/package to OCR and let you identify who it is from. The level of privacy/trust you get is on par with the post office and your mail carrier's.
Yeah, opening mail for you is an additional service. You can have them do it for everything or just what you want to look at. It is done by machine, but you are relying upon their system being honest. Of course, if its ever shown that its not, they'll lose quite a bit of business.
Is it a federal offense to look at mail someone has authorized you to open? Not sure about that. So, can't say that the level of trust is as high as it would be with the post office.
Of course, the post office is much more likely to give your mail to the wrong people, so may not be as save anyway.
I have ECM for the package pickups from street addresses specifically, as I cannot rely on anybody to make a delivery on time and without leaving it on the sidewalk (which makes the forwarding moot). Fantastic stuff, on top of their other services.
I would like to add though that you can pay extra for searchable PDFs and check deposits and more, which practically seals the deal for me. Much easier to pay a small fee than to deal with all that stuff, and their check deposit service seems to handle a lot more than most banks offer for their scan at home deposit service.
Can anyone recommend a shredder that's really, really good? I love my ScanSnap, but I can't find a shredder of comparable quality to handle the leftovers.
I have seen the junk they have at OfficeMax, and it's just not adequate. I'm looking for something that is heavy-duty enough that I can shred at least 10 sheets at a time, and won't break or burn out for a very long time. It would be nice if it was quiet-ish, but I'm flexible on this point.
Do you want to keep the price down too? Because for $500 or so there are professional shredders that meet these needs. It's just that the home office market doesn't really need a 10 sheet shredder.
I will agree that there are times you really need a volume shredder. If I keep up on it, it's not so bad, but if you have half a box full, it's so daunting. I usually just bring it to my office and dump it in the secure trash at that point.
Yeah, professional tools cost professional money, but I was hoping there was something in the middle. The ScanSnap equivalent of a shredder -- the pro versions of sheet-feed scanners are several thousand dollars at least. Is there a similar value shredder?
Maybe I was over-thinking it with 10 sheets. My desire is to shred junk mail without the indignity of having to open even the fattest faux-hand-addressed envelopes.
>My desire is to shred junk mail without the indignity of having to open even the fattest faux-hand-addressed envelopes.
My strategy for this is to keep a bucket of that crap and shred every 6 months or so at a pro location. I've considered pulping the docs myself (mostly out of curiosity in the process), but from what I can tell, pragmatically it's more work than it is worth.
I have a $250 Fellowes MS-460C shredder that does this well.
Handles 10 sheets in the normal shredder, or spam mail with CDs inside the envelope for the heavy duty shredder. I can throw my junk mail without opening them in the heavy duty shredder entry without worrying about those plastic fake credit cards advertisers sometimes send.
I'd just go to a 'vending-machine' style shredder. For a aligned pile of flat paper that you can just slide in they work very very fast. (They're absolutely horrible for receipts even if you align them due to the entry way being too thin) Accumulate a pile of several hundred papers, go to the machine and shred it in a couple of minutes and be done with it.
I've found that printing places have industrial shredders. And going paperless like this has a high initial load (lots of paper) followed by low load (incremental). If you are just dealing with the first surge then consider asking a Kinko's or equivalent like place if they will shred it for you.
There are also professional shredding services that might give you a one-off deal which will be less than an industrial shredder.
Most local credit unions and some banks have free, periodic "Shred-a-thons" in your local area. You can pull up, dump your to-be-shreddeds into a bin and drive off (or, if you're like me, ask them to shred it right then and there).
Open source OCR programs have not yet reached the level of what is commercially available and none of this stuff is packaged together in an easy to use manner for OCRing scanned documents.
I'd buy the scansnap instead. It comes with an integrated version of all those features. I one push sync across all my computers by copying to a smart folder.
Another thing technology should have already solved by now.
Its possible for most receipts and bills to be sent electronically. We really ought to have a universally trusted third party receive, forward, store everything. And indicate accept of charges.
Maybe the credit card companies should form a consortium or perhaps the Post Office should do this (assuming a huge upgrade in technical competence).
It should be possible to pay with a card and have the card company send the receipt to your mobile device and third party. And you should be able to access that data forever.
Such an entity could also help prevent identity theft, notifying you whenever your address gets changed or your credit is checked or used. You should be able to dispute charges immediately.
Scanned images may should like a good idea but these may be perceived as more easily manipulated. Will clerks treat images the same way they treat real receipts?
It would be better if the tiny amount of data these contain was certified to be true and then kept forever instead of storing bulky scanned images. You don't really need to store how the data is presented.
Not sure if the Post Office should be doing this but if the government certified that the actual data stored, you wouldn't need to store scanned images.
How we make such a transition is anybody's guess. It certainly is in Corporate America's interest to eliminate the expense of mailing statements and printing receipts. But it will be a long time before they'll be able to stop doing things the old fashioned for all of the late adopters.
And for some things, we'll always want a hard copy. Trusting corporations or the government has been known to be dumb in the past. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
Apple has sort of begun this - if you have a credit card linked to an AppleID and use that card in an Apple Store, the receipt is emailed to you (unless you specifically request a printed copy). If you don't, they'll ask for your email address the first time you use a card and keep that email on file so the next time you buy something at that store, they don't need to ask.
How many other large (or even mid-size) brick-and-mortar retailers do digital receipts? A quick Google session turned up a test case at K-Mart and a hockey chain in Canada.
Yeah, probably a bad idea. At least with the mail, they had to open the envelopes. Now they can search massive amounts of information with no evidence left behind.
This will probably keep evolving in the private sector, unless some dope gives the government the idea to get into it. Oops. My bad.
I guess I am a bit concerned about disputes where you don't have a hard copy of the bill they actually sent you or gave you at the point of purchase.
But as I think about it, there are already third parties who keep records involved in transmitting things already and not many disputes of the type I was imagining.
One can imagine how things might be abused, but where the legal system is functioning, there shouldn't be a problem. And if its not functioning, there are much bigger problems.
I would also like to here about this. Right now I am checking out the gscan2pdf project. It promises to run a scan and then run OCR and output a pdf. So, if it does what I think it might, it could be a key part to the equation.
I got really excited about backblaze when I heard about it, but alas, they do not have a linux client yet...
crashplan looks like a good alternative to back blaze, with a nice linux client. Also, they have a free option to backup over the net to a friends computer (encrypting everything before it is sent).
I wrote about this a couple of times. I use a service called Shoeboxed (http://littlebitofcode.com/2011/05/05/netflix-for-documents) that will scan your receipts and documents for $20/month. Works like Netflix, they send you envelopes, you fill them up, they scan them. I use them for receipts.
nice post, what is the state of ocr these days? the last time i used it was back in 2000, and that experience kept me away from it for nearly 11 years! the accuracy was quite low, in the 80% range.
incredible that such a thing involves so many processes and different pieces of software. imagine a single solution that does all of this, money maker...
I hate scanning. What a waste of time. I simply subscribed to http://shoeboxed.com, which syncs my scans to evernote and the other programs I use to manage the documents.
So pretty much I gather all the paper, put it in an envelope, and mail it once a month.
131 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 182 ms ] threadThe scanners on that page are ridiculously cool.
And even if I could, I don't think I would. I like the feel of books in my hands.
I started out by chopping the spines off those old textbooks I'd been lugging around and feeding them to the scanner. It was so easy, I started going by the used book store and grabbing handfuls of 50 cent curiosities.
It only took about 10 minutes to scan a book this way. The downside is that the book is destroyed. Think of it as a religious experience. The book can live on forever in the digital realm but it must sacrifice it's paper form to do so!
> According to an IRS spokesman, there are a number of ways that a taxpayer can meet the recordkeeping requirements to prove a deduction or other expense. Documentation can include hard copy or electronic records such as direct receipts, acknowledgment letters, credit-card receipts, and credit-card statements, that show the payment date, amount, recipient, and any other information required for the particular type of deduction (such as business purpose for a business deduction).
Where are these countries and can I move there?
Also talks about adding in DEVONThink Pro into the mix for document management and auto-classification, which I'd also recommend (though it takes a bit to get used to).
I'm very happy with the paperless setup I've got running now.
As for shredding - my wife works in a medical office with those big locked garbage cans. Once a month I just drop off a box of papers into the can and they get shredded during the next pick-up.
If I were to scan stuff on the go (with JotNot, like in the article), would I be able to use PDFScanner just for OCR?
Financial institutions are able to scan everything, when I was at a CU, we used Fujitsu scanners (fi-6140 - amazing workhorse) and destroyed everything except original mortgage notes.
The only area I know of that's problematic is scanning and archiving documents under apostille. Apostilles are arcane, and their validity is related to the seal remaining intact. They're pretty: for example, I've seen docs from China with the apostille attached to documents using a ribbon and a wax seal. Try scanning that.
ViM: http://stevelosh.com/blog/2010/09/coming-home-to-vim/
Candy Colors: http://stevelosh.com/blog/2009/03/candy-colored-terminal/
That was my main fear for tossing "important" documents.
Everything else (pay stubs, utility bills, receipts, etc) I shred.
The checks you write are scanned and destroyed. Good luck arguing that the scan is not a valid representation of the original.
You produce a paper copy, they can still say that.
Maybe it's harder to fake the paper version, maybe it's not.
I'd love it even more if it were a completely standalone WiFi device that added scanned documents to my Evernote account. Does Doxie actually work completely standalone?
JotNot would work over wifi, and I think it supports Evernote. But the scans aren't as nice as a real scanner.
It seems to have a bit of trouble with serif text, but since most of the stuff I'm scanning is in a sans-serif font (the only exception I can think of was an Amazon invoice) it's not really a problem in practice.
Except it has hearts on the front. Pink hearts. And a great big pink heart button on the top.
http://www.getdoxie.com/images/features-header-scanner.png
You might be able to get one without the hearts by emailing them after you order.
For about $40/month they scan all my paper mail for me (this is a chore I wouldn't want to do) and I never see a physical piece of mail.
- the PDF's are all archived online indefinitely
- if you get something physical (new credit card) they can forward it for $2-3
- packages you get shipped to your current address so no forwarding fee
- if you move often (as I do) then you can keep the same mailing address indefinitely so you never have to update your mailing address with dozens of different institutions, miss bills, etc (this is a huge hassle removed)
Only downsides so far... - the documents aren't OCR'ed
- their web interface in clunky, but useable
- hand written thank you notes/bday cards just don't carry the same sentimental value looking at a scan online
Otherwise I'm pretty happy with it. I started using it while living abroad, but decided to keep it since I've been back in the U.S. - I wouldn't want to go back to opening paper mail.
Is it a federal offense to look at mail someone has authorized you to open? Not sure about that. So, can't say that the level of trust is as high as it would be with the post office.
Of course, the post office is much more likely to give your mail to the wrong people, so may not be as save anyway.
I would like to add though that you can pay extra for searchable PDFs and check deposits and more, which practically seals the deal for me. Much easier to pay a small fee than to deal with all that stuff, and their check deposit service seems to handle a lot more than most banks offer for their scan at home deposit service.
I have seen the junk they have at OfficeMax, and it's just not adequate. I'm looking for something that is heavy-duty enough that I can shred at least 10 sheets at a time, and won't break or burn out for a very long time. It would be nice if it was quiet-ish, but I'm flexible on this point.
I will agree that there are times you really need a volume shredder. If I keep up on it, it's not so bad, but if you have half a box full, it's so daunting. I usually just bring it to my office and dump it in the secure trash at that point.
Maybe I was over-thinking it with 10 sheets. My desire is to shred junk mail without the indignity of having to open even the fattest faux-hand-addressed envelopes.
My strategy for this is to keep a bucket of that crap and shred every 6 months or so at a pro location. I've considered pulping the docs myself (mostly out of curiosity in the process), but from what I can tell, pragmatically it's more work than it is worth.
Handles 10 sheets in the normal shredder, or spam mail with CDs inside the envelope for the heavy duty shredder. I can throw my junk mail without opening them in the heavy duty shredder entry without worrying about those plastic fake credit cards advertisers sometimes send.
Here's a similar model: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16846101...
There are also professional shredding services that might give you a one-off deal which will be less than an industrial shredder.
>if you're like me, ask them to shred it right then and there
Can anyone name a decent document scanner supported by SANE?
Its possible for most receipts and bills to be sent electronically. We really ought to have a universally trusted third party receive, forward, store everything. And indicate accept of charges.
Maybe the credit card companies should form a consortium or perhaps the Post Office should do this (assuming a huge upgrade in technical competence).
It should be possible to pay with a card and have the card company send the receipt to your mobile device and third party. And you should be able to access that data forever.
Such an entity could also help prevent identity theft, notifying you whenever your address gets changed or your credit is checked or used. You should be able to dispute charges immediately.
Scanned images may should like a good idea but these may be perceived as more easily manipulated. Will clerks treat images the same way they treat real receipts?
It would be better if the tiny amount of data these contain was certified to be true and then kept forever instead of storing bulky scanned images. You don't really need to store how the data is presented.
Not sure if the Post Office should be doing this but if the government certified that the actual data stored, you wouldn't need to store scanned images.
How we make such a transition is anybody's guess. It certainly is in Corporate America's interest to eliminate the expense of mailing statements and printing receipts. But it will be a long time before they'll be able to stop doing things the old fashioned for all of the late adopters.
And for some things, we'll always want a hard copy. Trusting corporations or the government has been known to be dumb in the past. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
This will probably keep evolving in the private sector, unless some dope gives the government the idea to get into it. Oops. My bad.
There's no need for a centralized solution - just each individual company to get rid of the paper from their process.
I guess I am a bit concerned about disputes where you don't have a hard copy of the bill they actually sent you or gave you at the point of purchase.
But as I think about it, there are already third parties who keep records involved in transmitting things already and not many disputes of the type I was imagining.
One can imagine how things might be abused, but where the legal system is functioning, there shouldn't be a problem. And if its not functioning, there are much bigger problems.
So you're correct.
I got really excited about backblaze when I heard about it, but alas, they do not have a linux client yet...
I also use a NeatWorks document scanner (http://littlebitofcode.com/2010/02/15/getting-receipts-and-m...) that I've been really happy with. I use it for documents. The combination of the packages has perfectly fit my needs.
incredible that such a thing involves so many processes and different pieces of software. imagine a single solution that does all of this, money maker...
I told her that'd make going to the bathroom pretty nasty.
So pretty much I gather all the paper, put it in an envelope, and mail it once a month.