HN Explorer

Your Commute is Killing You? Move to New York (dblock.org)

45 points by dblock ↗ HN
This is a special message to fellow California or Pacific Northwest engineers following a Slate article entitled “Your Commute is Killing You”, which compared my commute with assembling IKEA furniture and called it a “migraine-inducing life-suck”. I commute 45 minutes, each direction, every day. Unlike most people described in this article I have taken complete control of this issue and have made my commute productive, enjoyable and one of those things to look forward to, both directions.

Keep Reading, then drop me a note at dblock[at]dblock[dot]org with a link to your Github account and I’ll help you get a job at a NY start-up.

80 comments

[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 144 ms ] thread
eegilbert
Absolutely. The commutes are the worst part about living in the valley.
juiceandjuice
If you leave after ~9:30 am, you can get to or from San Francisco in about 45 minutes from San Jose.

Of course, if you leave before that, it's almost twice as long.

I lived on the Menlo Park/EPA border and commuted to SLAC and it took me about 30-35 before 10am, and about 25 minutes otherwise (unless it's the middle of the night, then only about 20). The inner city traffic in all of those cities is abysmal, especially if you have to cross the tracks for Caltrain.

Moving to SF, I can commute to SLAC on the 280 from Noe Valley and get there in 35 minutes, as long as I leave after 9:15, same thing leaving after 6:30. My commute is almost the same amount of time and I'm traveling 27 more miles. It's nuts.

So, I think 30-35 minutes is reasonable, sometimes it creeps up to 40 or 45 if there's a wreck, but I don't mind the commute, especially because the 280 is beautiful.

nupark2
That's 1 to 1.5 wasted hours, every single day. That's not what I would call a reasonable (or productive) use of time. I'd rather spend that time somewhere more pleasant than the freeway, doing something more pleasant than driving a car.

I used to do a similar commute from SF to Cupertino, before I moved to NYC. I felt an awful numbness of mind and spirit every time I got into my car to commute to work.

Now, my commute takes 15 minutes door-to-door; I use the brief time on the train to read a book. I actually look forward to it.

xxpor
>doing something more pleasant than driving a car.

Driving is, for me, one of my favorite things to do. You're right, it's not productive, but I don't want to be 100% productive 100% of the time, I want to take some down time each day as well. What kind of car do you drive? Perhaps you could upgrade, and/or take a more scenic route.

nupark2
Driving the exact same commuter route day after day is a very different experience than driving for fun.

I do enjoy driving for fun, but no more than I enjoy other activities. What I don't enjoy is the incredible commitment and mental involvement required to own, park, insure, fuel, and maintain a car -- so I don't just own one.

xxpor
I guess you could see it that way. I just don't ever get bored driving, but that might be just because I'm weird :D
HaloZero
Audiobooks and podcasts make you "productive"
juiceandjuice
I listen to a lot of music, or Fresh Air/NPR. I would do the exact same thing if I was riding on a train. I listen to a lot of music anyways (i.e. go to record stores, buy albums etc... ) so it's great for me, especially because I don't listen to music or other things at work because it's distracting for me.

Also, I know I couldn't handle the drive to Cupertino from SF, and I've had an imposed limit of 45 minutes for a commute, which is why I even moved to Menlo Park when I first moved to the bay. But, I get off at Sand Hill Road, and honestly, living in Menlo Park is much more soul sucking than an extra 20 minutes of commuting each day. It was too far to walk anywhere from my house when I was home, and that's a huge dealbreaker for me.

cagey
I live/work in Silicon Valley. Have a 25-30 minute commute, driving alone at skewed-from-peak-traffic times (10a,7p). It's not unusual to see wildlife on the way: deer, wild turkey, jackrabbit, rarely coyote. I listen to podcasts most days. Unless there's a wreck or other cause of stopped traffic ahead, I don't particularly mind the drive, and parking is not a problem (no snow or freezing weather either). Switching to mass transit (bus stop is 1 mile from my residence) would at least triple my travel time. No thanks. If my work habits evolve, it will most likely be toward more working from home.
mixmastamyk
Believe it or not I do something similar in Los Angeles. First I don't usually go into work, I work from home. When I do go, I take the metro and catch up on my podcasts, though I may work when necessary.

Also, there are plenty of sunny days, great restaurants in walking distance, and the beach and Griffith park are not too far away when I need a break.

danneu
Podcasts have really made my commute a lot of fun.
wuster
Me too! I look forward to 20-30 minute commutes (Bay Area) during which I can finish one half hour podcast. iTunes syncing, or Stitcher Radio app does wonders here.
papercruncher
Yes, the NYC subway in the summer is lovely. Extra points if the train air-conditioning is broken.
dblock
The sweaty people don't bother me - http://2dayblog.com/2011/05/19/thinkpad-x1s-keyboard-is-spil...
wuster
OK, what about the mixed smell of sweat and urine in the subway stations in the still, humid air of July. Yikes.
dblock
OK, I'll give you that. It can get real hot and sweaty instantly on the platforms. The change of temperature with the air-conditioned subway cars is brutal. Still beats traffic - I never feel like murdering the guy in front of me because of this.
codenerdz
Id imagine the excellent weather that this author enjoys only happens few months out the year in Brighton Beach. Because my memory of the area was that of gloomy weather and gloomy people :)

Whereas in California its in reverse, bad weather if it happens, it happens only few times year. Where I live(San Mateo -- 20 minutes south of San Francisco), the weather varies between spring and summer and a mild one at that

P.S. The thing I like about San Mateo is that its right smack in the middle between san francisco(Zynga) and Mountain View(Google). Its 20 minutes either way by CalTrain or car.

fragsworth
Living in Los Angeles adjusts your perception of bad weather. Here, we consider 60 degrees Fahrenheit unusually cold. Rain makes headlines.

I think it is worth it. Commutes don't have to be bad if you move closer to where you work.

Aloisius
Having lived in LA, I can confirm this, but nothing mangles your perspective like living in Hawaii. I would put on a sweater if it dipped below 70.
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matdwyer
NYC Subway >>>>>>>> TTC (Toronto Subway)

Any YYZ folks know exactly how brutal our transit is!

thomasgerbe
And if a TTC train is stuck, there's like no alternatives (outside of taking a bus). At least with NYC, I've been able to take alternate lines when something happens.

That said, the TTC subways are far cleaner and much more spacious.

lnanek
I commuted from near Berkeley to San Francisco for 5 days recently using their BART train. It was a lot like the experience described in this article, even though it was on the other coast.

I never had trouble getting a seat, both at the stations and at the train, so it was easy to take out my laptop. Large portions are above ground, so tethering worked for internet.

It does feel really good to get stuff done on your commute! I guess situations where it is possible pop up in many places.

hc5
I commute from Pleasanton to SF every day, and it's basically the exact same commute described in the article. 40-50 minutes each way, last stop so I get to work on the train, farmers markets near my SF stop, etc.
rawsyntax
how about telecommuting instead?
mgarfias
Here! Here! I currently commute up the stairs to get to my office. Much more sane than spending 2 extra hours in the car every day.
dblock
Do you have kids? Try to telecommute with a child at home even a few hours a day.
mgarfias
I do have a 2yro. The stairs are gated off and mom knows that when I'm in there I'm working and unavailable.
inkaudio
The author has a unique perspective, but for the majority of new yorkers this is simply not the case. Internet and cell phone access is not available underground, and most of the NYC subway line is underground. it's not safe to use or show your expensive anything on most of the subway lines. Majority of the stations are very dirty, cars are just tolerable. During rush hours NYC subway riders are packed like sardines in the subway cars .... Here is a blog that gives a different side of the story : http://gybria.blogspot.com/2007/10/packed-like-sardines-in-p...
nupark2
> Internet and cell phone access is not available underground, and most of the NYC subway line is underground.

I have no trouble reading a book on my iPhone on the subway. The ride just isn't long enough to make having internet access an issue.

> it's not safe to use or show your expensive anything on most of the subway lines.

During the day, almost everyone has a smart phone out. I've never had a problem, never expect to.

>Majority of that stations are very dirty, cars are just tolerable.

The cars are generally quite clean, and air conditioned. The stations can be dirty, but no more than the street is. You're not supposed to be licking the floor ...

> During rush hours NYC subway riders stuff like sardines in the...let me find a picture

Depends on the line and how much of a rush you're in yourself. Either way, there's room to read.

dblock
3000$ laptop, are you crazy?! Mine is less than half that price, that is new. Get a linux netbook for half the price of a cell phone if that's a concern.

Nobody steals anything from Russians on the subway because some Russians carry guns :)

codenerdz
Russians that carry guns dont take subway.
dblock
+1 for speaking with a Russian accent omitting the "the" before "subway"
nupark2
Sorry, looks like you replied before I edited down my comment. I mentioned $3000 laptops (and how unwise it is to pull one out); Occasionally I see a tourist with:

* A MacBook Pro balanced precariously on their lap.

* Sitting right next to the door.

* ... where someone could simply snatch the laptop and bolt out the doors just before they close.

inkaudio
You have some interesting points, I won't argue about because my post a response to what blog was about. But I must disagree with you on the matter of cleanness, just the look of things alone is disgusting and yes the streets of NYC is dirty and in many cases disgusting. The cars like I said in most cases are tolerable as long as you're not in on someone just urinated in. This probably happens once everyday ( primarily on lines from the outer boroughs) because some people make the subway cars their room and toliet.
leafydirt
Is NY really that dirty? I visited for the first time in a couple years last month, and given all I've heard, I found it surprisingly clean (about the same level of cleanliness as SF, where I live).
thomasgerbe
I'd say it's pretty dirty. The subways are disgusting and the streets often have trash strewn about. SF is certainly not that much better (though the BART stations are far cleaner).
rayiner
I've been to a number of major US cities, and lived in 4, and NY is by far the dirtiest city I've seen outside the third world. The sanitation system is non-existent. There are no alley ways or trash bins, so there are just bags of garbage littering the streets. It's surreal.
lurker19
Seattle and many other cities have parks spread across the whole city, and one central trash dump. In Manhattan, vice versa.
dblock
Not true. I lived in both Seattle downtown and Eastside. Just in the 15 streets around Union Square area there's the Union Square, Thompkins Square, Gramercy, Madison and Washington Square parks plus at least ten smaller parks or playgrounds. Try to find a green playground in Seattle downtown.
michael_michael
> During the day, almost everyone has a smart phone out. I've never had a problem, never expect to.

This pretty much summed up my feeling about crime on the subway until I got mugged in a full train during normal commuting hours. One mugging does not a crime wave make, of course, but apparently grand larcenies on the subway are up 18% in New York year over year:

http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2011/04/21/iphones-fuel-spik...

endtime
>it's not safe to use or show your expensive anything on most of the subway lines.

Are you talking about Manhattan or, like, the deep Bronx? I always have my iPhone out on the train, all over Manhattan, including late at night, and I've never had a problem. I generally feel safe just about anywhere I go in Manhattan.

gte910h
This is much more what I've seen in visits and heard from friends.

Very few places in NY would this be true (but it is true for many other US cities with rapid transit).

techiferous
I ditched my car in 2008 and moved to Cambridge, Massachusetts, one of the most walkable cities in the US. That was one of the best decisions of my life. My daily commute is a few minutes of walking. The city is very compact, meaning every place I go is within walking distance or a short subway ride.
dblock
+1 for ditching your car and moving to a place where you don't need one! huge expense that traps you instead of giving you the supposed freedom
imajes
car ownership needn't be a huge expense that locks you in. I'm leasing one with my wife and frankly, for the $250 a month I get to take day trips out of nyc every weekend, which frankly is one of the few ways I've found to truly survive city living :)
pnathan
I live in a fairly rural area. My commute by car is 20 minutes each way. There is no traffic jams. No smog. If I travel by back roads, I can avoid all traffic lights. Leaving early, I might see some wildlife.
dblock
we got plenty of wildlife in the NY subway
D_Alex
dblock - moving to the largest metropolis in the country cannot be a great way to improve the commute!!! You found what seems like a pretty small niche that makes your commute okay, but if enough people imitate you, will that niche become overcrowded, and your commute turn into 45 minutes of suck?
dblock
Commute is a considering for where we live. If my commute were to become 45 minutes of suck, I'd move. All I am trying to say is that it's possible to commute a long distance and look forward to it.
D_Alex
I agree it is possible. It is probably possible in California also. But the title of your post says "...Move to New York"!
dblock
Commute is just one reason. Don't get me started :)
Aloisius
I simply live near where I work and walk to work. It is pretty easy to do in San Francisco proper.
dblock
Man, all those hills! :)
ivankirigin
I bike in SF a lot and the hills don't really matter so much
yakto
If you have a bike with gears, they don't. If you're sporting a fixie, you probably don't like hills so much.
chrisaycock
I've been spoiled by Manhattan. I walk to my office (15 minutes away), I walk to the grocery and drug stores (both one block away), and I take the subway whenever I have to go somewhere "far away" (at most 20-minute commute). It reminds me of living on a college campus.
rorrr
Yeah, I loved my commute when I moved to Manhattan from Jersey City (40 min -> 15 min). That until I started working remotely. No commute. I can work in my underwear from my bed, when I feel like it. There's so much stress working from the office, I don't want to do that ever again.
T-R
My commute in Tokyo was usually fairly nice - As long as I avoided rush hour, I could get a seat and spend the trip reading. It was even better when I moved to Yokohama (longer commute, but more space and fewer stairs). The commute ended with a view of Tokyo Tower, an Egg McMuffin, and a ridiculously expensive coffee. Not to mention the trains were spotless, and there were vending machines everywhere.

Still, I'd have happily given up my nice commute for a shorter one any day. Particularly since catching it at the wrong time meant not only that I had to worry about being late, but that I'd be crammed like a sardine against the door.

[dead] jorsh
Whoever wrote this is seriously delusional or on crack or something. 45 minute commute from Brighton Beach to Union Square is optimistic at best.
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warpwoof
Instead of your commute killing you, the gloomy, bitterly cold weather in the Northeast will be killing you half of the year.
bengl3rt
Agree with this 100%. I'm a Californian in New York (arrived in January) and it was too cold/gloomy until about a week ago, and now it's too hot.

One week of perfection? Really?

xxpor
This year has been crazy. We usually have more spring than this.
rayiner
Lived on the east coast all my life... and yes pretty much.
thomasgerbe
Yes. After living in NY, that is what I found amazing in SF.

My commute is longer but takes me long hills and perfectly sunny days, along with seating on the BART.

In NY, it was usually either cold, rainy, or humid and hot (spring/fall being the very brief exceptions). And if you've ever had to suffer the NY subway during the summer you really feel like dying.

leafydirt
I used to live in Seattle, where I had a 45-minute bus commute, and now live in SF, where I have a 20-minute BART commute.

Strangely, I much preferred the Seattle commute -- in fact, I actually enjoyed it, whereas I hate my current commute. I think it has something to do with the fact that in Seattle, the buses are pretty clean/new/comfortable and you get to look outside (my particular route was very nature-y), but I hate being stuck underground in SF's crowded subway trains.

dblock
+1 = me carpool

but seriously, 520 must be the most expensive route in the world, if you count the dollars wasted per qualified engineer

WildUtah
I arranged my commute to be a 40 minute bike ride each way when I lived in Mexico City.

Each day started with a pretty slice of happy city life, a hot tamale, and orange juice or atole. Each evening I stopped mid ride at a different farmers' market (each neighborhood has one on a different day) and picked up dinner ingredients or munched on tacos.

Every day I looked forward to the ride both ways.

The advice from the op is fine and you can design your own fantasy commute how you like, but Rule Number One is don't commute alone in a car.

Don't commute alone in a car.

Because that would stink.

corin_
While it can be a waste of time, and many people won't enjoy it, there are also plenty of people who say they love a quiet time driving, and genuinely enjoy it.

I've never driven so I can't say for sure, but I suspect that when I finally bother to learn/get a car, I'll positively enjoy driving it. Plus, it doesn't have to be a waste of time, you can either use it as thinking time, listen to audiobooks/etc, or if you enjoy music, it can be a period of relaxing entertainment.

rayiner
When I lived in Atlanta I did a reverse commute 25 miles to my office in my car. I genuinely enjoyed it every day. Door to door in 30 minutes, listening to some music, going 70 on the highway. Very pleasant.
alnayyir
I commute alone on a motorcycle, love it. :)
kemiller
There is more to California than Silicon Valley. Lots of places in the Bay Area you can have exactly this experience, except your mobile data connection keeps working even underground. (Under the bay, even!) Don't get me wrong, I love New York, and its subway, but the particular experience you're describing is available here too. (But with a larger tech industry and better weather. ;)
i386
I live in Sydney. My commute is pretty awesome: I live in Chippendale which is behind Central Station. From the station you can get busses or trains to pretty much anywhere in the city.

I can leave work and be home in 10 minutes via bus or train or 30 minutes if I choose to walk (Although winter in Sydney can be a little reminiscent of Seattle so its not really walking season). Unfortunately, traffic is horrible because of poor planning. The city sort of just "happened" and you can trace some main thoroughfares in the inner city back to the first roads when the colony was just a camp. Your not a real Sydneysider until you've bitched about CityRail and blamed the State Government. In my opinion, if you choose to live in Sydney and you work in the CBD, ditch the car and rent in the inner suburbs. Sydney is gigantic and paying more rent is more preferable than commuting via bus, train or car for an hour just so you can live in a place that has cheaper rent.

The Atlassian office in Sydney is great. Its a brick heritage listed building with very high ceilings and even though its open plan its still mostly quiet. When you leave the office you don't take your work home with you unless you choose todo so (So there is no company subsidized Internet connections because your supposed to have a life outside of work). Desks are huge and there is more than enough space next to you to pair or have someone work on a laptop beside you if the need arises (Did I mention that the people here are enthusiastic and intelligent and the problems engaging? No, really!). Its company culture to eat together in the staff area or go out to lunch as a group.

Life in Sydney is really good - lots of great places to eat in China Town (Australians in the capitol cities probably eat more Asian food than any other Western country I am aware of) or Thai places in Newtown or Glebe (inner west suburbs which are 20 mins bus or train away from the CBD).

Summer is the best time to be in Sydney. When daylight savings kicks in you can wrap up at the office at 5 and still have three hours daylight at the beach. I love my job but its great not to be your job all the time :)

te_chris
I live in Auckland and it feels the same as far as planning is concerned - only worse! There's barely any useful rail here, everything is supposed to happen by road and every time a good rail proposal comes by, the road/trucking lobby mobilises and nothing every happens.

I live a good life though. Like you I live in an inner city suburb (St. Mary's Bay) and can walk 20 minutes to my office. Also like Sydney, Auckland is one of the fastest growing Asian cities in the world, so the food is fantastic. It's also on a beautiful harbour and, despite questionable general planning decisions, there are great parks and green spaces everywhere, plus opportunities (well, if you know people I guess) to get involved with activities like sailing (Auckland has one of the highest amounts of boats per capita in the world).

Auckland's funny though, I'd say we're probably 20 years behind the levels of development and confidence that Sydney is reaching now. We'll never be as big, that's a given, but as far as interesting architecture and commercial developments, everything is still quite under-developed here, but I think the climate and pace of life make up for it - though I must admit I'm itching to live in New York for a while, guess the grass is always greener :)

callmeed
I assume he's talking to "Bay Area California Engineers" ... my commute is a 20 min drive up the 101 into SLO, listening to podcasts and looking at the pacific ocean.
krobertson
I think he's just making a sensationalist title.

I work in SF and ride Bart for an hour. Like in his post, I work most of the way, have internet access most of the way, and find I get a lot done.

Public transit isn't unique to New York. They just have more of it.

He's just trying to turn it into a Silicon Valley vs rest of the world thing.

rayiner
Commuting in New York blows. There is a layer of filth on everything. I spend my whole commute just on the verge of having an "ick" breakdown.
alnayyir
Are you kidding me? My commute is shorter in Cali than it was in NYC.