Inspired and motivated by some fantastic advice from the HN community, I’ve decided to pursue a frontend engineering position at Airbnb. I’m an entrepreneur at heart, but I love what they’re doing and could see myself working as a part of the team. In fact, Airbnb is one of the only companies I’ve really felt the urge to work with.
In addition to submitting a resume and cover letter, I thought it would be fun to put together this little project. I’m not personally sending a link to Airbnb, so any chance they have at seeing this is entirely up to the community. I guess this is an experiment of sorts - we’ll see how it goes. Thanks HN!
I don't think so. He mentioned that he "expects" that they contact him soon, but he is not even sure they'll do. It's good in case the founders missed the post.
The page speaks for itself; there's really not much of a pragmatic difference between pg emailing the link and pg emailing the link as well as pointing out the obvious.
Your points are all true and he may make a great web designer. As for front-end engineer position there is a room for improvement.
Luckily it's not me hiring so all the best to Loren.
I enjoy the design but I find it very decorative. By which I mean there are a lot of visual elements (clouds, arrows) that serve no real function and distract from the message. It's fine for a resume page but doesn't say much about your ability to design the front-end user experience of a consumer web app, except that it's possible you might spend a lot of time on glitter.
THERE IS A HOLIDAY SOON.
I AM ALIVE AND HAPPY.
I HOPE YOU ARE ALSO.
ME.
Actually, that would be kind of funny. It would capture one's attention in a way that the typical cute and whimsical holiday card would not. Just as this cover letter gets one's attention in a way that a direct, factual, minimal, utterly banal and archetypal cover letter would not.
One thing I noticed was that your bolding (e.g., in real/airbnb/traveling/entrepreneur/challenges) was hard to see. (I prefer my bolds to be, well, bold, or to stand out in some way.) However, I am not at all a UI guy, so YMMV.
In any case, that's just a minor nitpick, the site looks beautiful! (And far, far better than the other directed resumes I've seen on HN.)
This is an excellent example of what I'll call "Resume 2.0" or "How to get a job in our new economy".
It's always boiled down to an employer knowing if you can handle yourself and get the job done. The only facilities we had available to try and assess that in the past were those stump-the-chump questions and interviews at a desk sitting across from a committee.
I love what technology has enabled us to do. It has enabled everyone to be a self-starter and enabled us to brandish our accomplishments in really damn creative ways (e.g. this Loren fellow rocking the AirBNB application).
HN is a bit of an echo-chamber for these types of cutting edge job acquisition moves, I don't expect most people to try and get a job this way, but it is the beginning of a trend that I think will make everyone happier as a result.
Loren, best of luck to you. You certainly got an upvote for me and it sure looks like ABNB would be lucky to have you.
Nice. And renders on a few browsers I tried. I'm always surprised with how many people consider themselves professional web devs, but can't bother to get IE to work properly.
I tried getting a meeting with him several times back when I was still a student at UIUC, I read how he launched a t-shirt web site and made some money from it, and it seems every response I got was: "sorry man, I didn't get any sleep last night, I was busy working on something. Can we try again next week?" Seems like a hustler.
I had seen he was working on projects, but that was just my impression. I know how it goes when you're focused on something that you can't take meetings and you only work on stuff for long uninterrupted periods of time. I didn't harass him about it though, I only asked twice and I think it was just bad timing. I'm sure it would have happened if I kept persisting, but even I was pretty busy myself and had forgot about it.
So, while this is novel and all, it seems to me that these "resume 2.0" applications indicate a real failure of systems like "jobvite" or whatever backend air bnb is using to simplify their hiring decisions.
On HN we've been seeing a bunch of these hyper-targeted reverse resumes in the past year because I suspect people have gotten tired of submitting waves of resumes and hearing nothing back within a reasonable timeframe from companies that advertise open positions on their websites but never, for whatever reason, respond.
What i'm seeing here, is that traditional recruiting practices are failing in some way because priority is achieved by a) making it to the hn frontpage which b) gets pg to vouch for you. Which is basically no better (or efficient) than the traditional method of hiring folks that you've networked with via friends/school/etc or what have you.
I understand that historically those online resume systems are a real losing proposition for applicants, but this suggests that they're more like a black hole rather than a mail slot.
Again, this is a critique of these automated systems which seem to be visibly failing because people are going out of their way to subvert them in order to achieve any success.
"What i'm seeing here, is that traditional recruiting practices are failing in some way because priority is achieved by a) making it to the hn frontpage which b) gets pg to vouch for you. Which is basically no better (or efficient) than the traditional method of hiring folks that you've networked with via friends/school/etc or what have you."
Well, yeah. The purpose of jobvite isn't to get the candidate attention, and these "resume 2.0" (ew...I already hate myself for writing that) shiny, whizzy, attention-getting things aren't scalable. If everyone did this, it wouldn't work. It would just raise the noise level.
Also, keep in mind that you're focusing your attention on the wrong side of the problem: it's always possible that this guy could show up for an on-site and stink the place up, because there are plenty of people out there who have lots of enthusiasm and a smattering of ability, but aren't qualified to write code for a big website. So this kind of thing is great for personal marketing, but it's not a solution to the core problem of recruiting from a company's perspective (namely: lots of mouth-breathers are applying, and we need to filter them from the tiny stream of good applicants).
Escalation. Once everybody is doing a shiny, whizzy attention-getting thing, then folks will start competing by being more shiny, more whizzy and more attention-getting than everyone else. Instead of a nicely-designed colourful scrolling webpage people are submitting half-hour semi-interactive animated feature films in which the ghost of Ghandi rises from the grave to tell you all about the advantages of hiring so-and-so while you fight off lizard men and can-can girls.
As soon as you said that, the phrase "unfashionably early" came to mind. I didn't immediately post it because I figured it would be interpreted negatively/argumentatively. That's not really my intent. I am just thinking of your remarks in terms of "fashion trends": Looking back historically, hemlines go up and down again, ties get fatter then skinnier again and so on.
I don't personally read any big significance into the possibility that this is part of a trend towards over-the-top, bling-bling, excessively flashy job-hunting techniques. Maybe it is but I think the value in this particular post/microsite is that he seems to be genuinely interested in this company and that he made the webpage and posted it here rather than sending it directly to the company. So it got notice because other people already vetted it for him so to speak. I think sincere interest in a particular company is always something of value for that company. I remember reading a story where a recruiter at IBM said he would hire the next person who knew what the letters "IBM" stood for because he was so sick of interviewing people who had zero idea what the company did. Most folks who are job-hunting are just looking for a paycheck. There is limited value in that from the perspective of the company.
That's not to point fingers at anyone. I am as guilty of that as anyone and that is part of why I am still stuck in an entry level job in an industry I never had any interest in. I'm a former homemaker who was going through a divorce and I needed a paycheck. I did try to apply to jobs in the field I was training for/had relevant education for but I never completed my bachelor's and ultimately took the first job offered me, having nothing to do with any of that. I am envious of Loren for having a clear idea what he wants to do and being in a position to go after it. In terms of career, I have not ever been in that situation: I either knew and wasn't qualified or didn't know (and also had other significant obstacles). I sincerely wish him all the best. (If his site somehow ends up promoting over-the-top, bling-bling horrors in the future, may he find absolution for this small sin.)
> If everyone did this, it wouldn't work. It would just raise the noise level.
Actually I think it would continue to work rather well -- it is a lot easier to judge based on this style of resume than a plain piece of paper with bullet points.
And a lot of the current noise level is just incapable of producing this type of resume. From the resumes I've seen just producing a properly targeted cover letter (not one where you've just search & replaced the company name) would put you in the top 10% of applicants.
If everyone did this, it wouldn't work. It would just raise the noise level.
That's the beauty if it. Everyone can't do this, because it takes work. It's customized for the specific company, and that's the only reason they work. It's like a cover letter on crack. If he made one that didn't find AirBnb's visual style, that didn't include specific information about what makes him special for AirBnb, it wouldn't succeed.
You've missed the point: The fact that someone did "work" doesn't mean that they're qualified. It just means that they're enthusiastic enough to make a website for a single employer. And that's great, but it's just the start of the whole hiring process. Once you get noticed, you also need to prove that you're a good engineer, employable, a culture fit, etc.
The OP was (vaguely) implying that the success of this guy's effort indicates that everyone else is somehow Doing it Wrong, because we're using jobvite, passing around resumes, etc. But what this guy did is the digital equivalent of those dudes who pay for a billboard on the freeway that says "Hire Me". It's a clever trick that may work for the first few people who try it, but it won't work consistently. The rest of us are still going to need a resume, recommendations, etc.
"On HN we've been seeing a bunch of these hyper-targeted reverse resumes in the past year because I suspect people have gotten tired of submitting waves of resumes and hearing nothing back within a reasonable timeframe"
Perhaps. But another point of view is that "standard" job application / resume submission techniques are fine for ordinary people, but that extraordinary people will always find a better, or at least different way. I strongly get the impression that Loren wouldn't be happy/satisfied at the sort of marginally creative middle management job that you land by using American Typewriter instead of Times New ROman for the heading font on your Microsoft Word template #3 reume to "stand out"...
Systems like "jobvite or whatever" are at odds with this approach, which, for lack of a better term, I'll call the "What Color Is My Parachute"† (WCIMP) Technique.
In the WCIMP mindset, you make a shortlist of specific companies you'd like to work for. You brainstorm a pitch about how you believe you'd like to add value to their company. Then, treating every step of the hiring process up to "interview with decision maker" as an obstacle, you run the ropes course for each company.
Jobvites and Resumorps and Interfleebs are all obstacles. Is there a system you know about that truly accepts the fact that HR is an obstacle between engaged hiring managers and engaged candidates? I don't know about it. For the most part, these tools all seem geared towards reducing the cost for companies of maintaining their existing obstacle courses.
And that's fine, because most people don't take the WCIMP approach to job hunting. Instead, they have a role in mind, and their overall goal is to hunt for a satisfactory place to practice that role. Those people are never going to think about your company and put you on a shortlist and devise a sales pitch, but are only marginally less likely to be awesome as the WCIMP candidates. Your job is only partly one of attracting candidates; it's also to filter them.
Personally, I don't see WCIMP tactics as evidence of the failure of obstacle course hiring; rather, they're just particularly graceful ways of navigating the course.
† Not endorsing the book, it's just the first one of its kind that I read, 15 years ago.
Loren, that's a very nice resume page. But I think it's missing something, which is quite important: Your portfolio.
Collect some of your best work, and create a slider in one of your clouds. If you have also worked in some companies in the past mention it. Stackoverflow, Github, Dribble... links are also useful.
hint: Change the white up arrow color, so that it contrast well with the background. You can detect this with scrolling and assign colors. This will show that you put lot of attention to small details ;)
Fumbled around with integrating a portfolio, but ultimately decided to leave it out and keep things simple (for aesthetics, primarily). I was sure to include relevant projects and descriptions in my resume, however.
I'll bite. Is this actually that good? Spending a lot of time on it, sure, but other than it being quirky (which is hugely valuable) is it doing it's job? No specific accomplishments, core skills, and no software in the wild for us to see.
You could have linked to your Airbnb profile ("hey i use it!") linked to your google map ("hey i travel!") and then listed all your software projects and links and things about each that you are especially proud of, and that'd have been awesome.
Thanks for the feedback. Without proper context, I see where you're coming from - but the reality is that this was created in an addition to a submitted resume + cover letter, both of which listed specific accomplishments, core skills, personal projects, and experience. This was certainly not meant to be a standalone "Hey look, hire me!" page, and would be rather incomplete as such.
Edit: Also, one of the primary goals of this project was to display the things that are commonly difficult to convey in a resume - passion and personality.
There are only four of us on the frontend team right now. We need more!
We like engineers with passion. People who get excited talking about the new frontend development frontier. Conversations like this happen all the time:
- Think Node.js would be cool for a realtime dashboard? Yes, do it.
- Maybe we could try using backbone.js and a fat client for this feature? Fork it and let's go.
- What's SASS? Install the gem. We're using it.
Our fourth frontend engineer just started last week. We sat him down, showed him how we were doing things and we asked him, "What do you think?" and he says, "Have you guys heard of Jammit? It's used for asset packaging. It's pretty cool" -- A couple hours later he was showing us the page load speed increase and how to use it.
If you're a frontend engineer wondering what it's like to work at Airbnb, feel free to email me: harry@airbnb.com or if you prefer character limits I'm on Twitter: @hshoff.
Not going to critique the technical quality of the work (particularly since I'm not a front-end web guy), but as a hiring manager, I'd be frigging floored if someone spent an evening (maybe more? Although I suspect you're pretty quick by now, based on your comments) putting together a tight on-point microsite for my consumption.
The big job boards are a joke since they have reduced the entire process to buzzword bingo - and a fairly poor form of one at that. There's basically zero insight into how good someone actually is. Looking at someone's blog or contributions to open source projects is potentially an indicator, but there are a number of solid folks for whom that isn't a serious options (significant risk of their old economy management freaking out - a problem when you have a couple of dependents you need to keep fed, housed, and healthy).
So you get interviews like the one I conducted two weeks ago - "you have written free form SQL before?"...."yes, many times"... " Excellent, I have a little problem for us to solve..."
[walks to board, draws three data tables - one transaction file and two dimensions - and outlines a requirement for a basic report that involves joining, summing, and filtering data - I validated it with a recent hire, took him 3 min]
"uh"... twenty minutes later we bring the painful exercise to a close.... "I didn't think you would have me write code"
Huh? Huh? The job description explictly mentions that you need to know free form SQL COLD and asks that you have higher level programming experience (real languages). Do you seriously expect to get a role like that w/o coding?
Shoot - beats the cracker jack wanna-be pricing analyst we had apply off monster who explicitly mentioned his pricing experience...at Walmart... as a positive...
The one decent player in the online recruiting space that I've seen is linkedin - most of the contacts I've had off of that which show serious intent (eg. tailored message) are pretty promising. Especially if they are a connection of someone you trust.
Linkedin's biggest problem is that all participants get the same view of a candidate, including your corporate HR people (don't laugh - I was hauled in and yelled at about this a couple of years ago) - if there was a way to make more of this platform private, the value of the network would increase.
The ROI on these in terms of career growth absolutely ROFLstomps effort at improving a traditional resume and playing spray-and-pray. (The ROI of networking is probably better than both but, hey, what can you do.)
I was interested in working for Airbnb too. Last January I tweeted out about how much I love them, and through the tweet I ended up visiting their offices and chatting with Joe, one of their founders. They were very generous with their time.
Took me 10 seconds writing out the tweet, but the face time I got out of it was very valuable. This is another thing one might look into to get the attention of companies.
108 comments
[ 5.7 ms ] story [ 140 ms ] threadIn addition to submitting a resume and cover letter, I thought it would be fun to put together this little project. I’m not personally sending a link to Airbnb, so any chance they have at seeing this is entirely up to the community. I guess this is an experiment of sorts - we’ll see how it goes. Thanks HN!
I don't think so. He mentioned that he "expects" that they contact him soon, but he is not even sure they'll do. It's good in case the founders missed the post.
* It's gorgeous
* It's simple
* It's precisely targeted and relevant
My only critique is that he didn't find a way to work Pocket into it; the story about his six-year-old sister using it is a winner.
Anyone want to put odds on how long Loren stays on the market? I give it a week. :)
Just my opinion as a fervent minimalist.
In any case, that's just a minor nitpick, the site looks beautiful! (And far, far better than the other directed resumes I've seen on HN.)
It's always boiled down to an employer knowing if you can handle yourself and get the job done. The only facilities we had available to try and assess that in the past were those stump-the-chump questions and interviews at a desk sitting across from a committee.
I love what technology has enabled us to do. It has enabled everyone to be a self-starter and enabled us to brandish our accomplishments in really damn creative ways (e.g. this Loren fellow rocking the AirBNB application).
HN is a bit of an echo-chamber for these types of cutting edge job acquisition moves, I don't expect most people to try and get a job this way, but it is the beginning of a trend that I think will make everyone happier as a result.
Loren, best of luck to you. You certainly got an upvote for me and it sure looks like ABNB would be lucky to have you.
On HN we've been seeing a bunch of these hyper-targeted reverse resumes in the past year because I suspect people have gotten tired of submitting waves of resumes and hearing nothing back within a reasonable timeframe from companies that advertise open positions on their websites but never, for whatever reason, respond.
What i'm seeing here, is that traditional recruiting practices are failing in some way because priority is achieved by a) making it to the hn frontpage which b) gets pg to vouch for you. Which is basically no better (or efficient) than the traditional method of hiring folks that you've networked with via friends/school/etc or what have you.
I understand that historically those online resume systems are a real losing proposition for applicants, but this suggests that they're more like a black hole rather than a mail slot.
Again, this is a critique of these automated systems which seem to be visibly failing because people are going out of their way to subvert them in order to achieve any success.
Well, yeah. The purpose of jobvite isn't to get the candidate attention, and these "resume 2.0" (ew...I already hate myself for writing that) shiny, whizzy, attention-getting things aren't scalable. If everyone did this, it wouldn't work. It would just raise the noise level.
Also, keep in mind that you're focusing your attention on the wrong side of the problem: it's always possible that this guy could show up for an on-site and stink the place up, because there are plenty of people out there who have lots of enthusiasm and a smattering of ability, but aren't qualified to write code for a big website. So this kind of thing is great for personal marketing, but it's not a solution to the core problem of recruiting from a company's perspective (namely: lots of mouth-breathers are applying, and we need to filter them from the tiny stream of good applicants).
Unclear. In many ways, this is simply a logical extension of the well written cover letter, and if those work, why can't these?
I don't personally read any big significance into the possibility that this is part of a trend towards over-the-top, bling-bling, excessively flashy job-hunting techniques. Maybe it is but I think the value in this particular post/microsite is that he seems to be genuinely interested in this company and that he made the webpage and posted it here rather than sending it directly to the company. So it got notice because other people already vetted it for him so to speak. I think sincere interest in a particular company is always something of value for that company. I remember reading a story where a recruiter at IBM said he would hire the next person who knew what the letters "IBM" stood for because he was so sick of interviewing people who had zero idea what the company did. Most folks who are job-hunting are just looking for a paycheck. There is limited value in that from the perspective of the company.
That's not to point fingers at anyone. I am as guilty of that as anyone and that is part of why I am still stuck in an entry level job in an industry I never had any interest in. I'm a former homemaker who was going through a divorce and I needed a paycheck. I did try to apply to jobs in the field I was training for/had relevant education for but I never completed my bachelor's and ultimately took the first job offered me, having nothing to do with any of that. I am envious of Loren for having a clear idea what he wants to do and being in a position to go after it. In terms of career, I have not ever been in that situation: I either knew and wasn't qualified or didn't know (and also had other significant obstacles). I sincerely wish him all the best. (If his site somehow ends up promoting over-the-top, bling-bling horrors in the future, may he find absolution for this small sin.)
Actually I think it would continue to work rather well -- it is a lot easier to judge based on this style of resume than a plain piece of paper with bullet points.
And a lot of the current noise level is just incapable of producing this type of resume. From the resumes I've seen just producing a properly targeted cover letter (not one where you've just search & replaced the company name) would put you in the top 10% of applicants.
That's the beauty if it. Everyone can't do this, because it takes work. It's customized for the specific company, and that's the only reason they work. It's like a cover letter on crack. If he made one that didn't find AirBnb's visual style, that didn't include specific information about what makes him special for AirBnb, it wouldn't succeed.
Proof of work. No way to automate that.
The OP was (vaguely) implying that the success of this guy's effort indicates that everyone else is somehow Doing it Wrong, because we're using jobvite, passing around resumes, etc. But what this guy did is the digital equivalent of those dudes who pay for a billboard on the freeway that says "Hire Me". It's a clever trick that may work for the first few people who try it, but it won't work consistently. The rest of us are still going to need a resume, recommendations, etc.
I agree, but doesn't all this effort show that the candidate is willing (and able) to go over the top for this particular company?
The billboard shows you got money. This website shows you got skills and time to "sacrifice" for this company.
Perhaps. But another point of view is that "standard" job application / resume submission techniques are fine for ordinary people, but that extraordinary people will always find a better, or at least different way. I strongly get the impression that Loren wouldn't be happy/satisfied at the sort of marginally creative middle management job that you land by using American Typewriter instead of Times New ROman for the heading font on your Microsoft Word template #3 reume to "stand out"...
In the WCIMP mindset, you make a shortlist of specific companies you'd like to work for. You brainstorm a pitch about how you believe you'd like to add value to their company. Then, treating every step of the hiring process up to "interview with decision maker" as an obstacle, you run the ropes course for each company.
Jobvites and Resumorps and Interfleebs are all obstacles. Is there a system you know about that truly accepts the fact that HR is an obstacle between engaged hiring managers and engaged candidates? I don't know about it. For the most part, these tools all seem geared towards reducing the cost for companies of maintaining their existing obstacle courses.
And that's fine, because most people don't take the WCIMP approach to job hunting. Instead, they have a role in mind, and their overall goal is to hunt for a satisfactory place to practice that role. Those people are never going to think about your company and put you on a shortlist and devise a sales pitch, but are only marginally less likely to be awesome as the WCIMP candidates. Your job is only partly one of attracting candidates; it's also to filter them.
Personally, I don't see WCIMP tactics as evidence of the failure of obstacle course hiring; rather, they're just particularly graceful ways of navigating the course.
† Not endorsing the book, it's just the first one of its kind that I read, 15 years ago.
Collect some of your best work, and create a slider in one of your clouds. If you have also worked in some companies in the past mention it. Stackoverflow, Github, Dribble... links are also useful.
hint: Change the white up arrow color, so that it contrast well with the background. You can detect this with scrolling and assign colors. This will show that you put lot of attention to small details ;)
I would definitely hire you for my start-up company (Viatask).
Best of luck!
You could have linked to your Airbnb profile ("hey i use it!") linked to your google map ("hey i travel!") and then listed all your software projects and links and things about each that you are especially proud of, and that'd have been awesome.
Edit: Also, one of the primary goals of this project was to display the things that are commonly difficult to convey in a resume - passion and personality.
There are only four of us on the frontend team right now. We need more!
We like engineers with passion. People who get excited talking about the new frontend development frontier. Conversations like this happen all the time:
- Think Node.js would be cool for a realtime dashboard? Yes, do it.
- Maybe we could try using backbone.js and a fat client for this feature? Fork it and let's go.
- What's SASS? Install the gem. We're using it.
Our fourth frontend engineer just started last week. We sat him down, showed him how we were doing things and we asked him, "What do you think?" and he says, "Have you guys heard of Jammit? It's used for asset packaging. It's pretty cool" -- A couple hours later he was showing us the page load speed increase and how to use it.
If you're a frontend engineer wondering what it's like to work at Airbnb, feel free to email me: harry@airbnb.com or if you prefer character limits I'm on Twitter: @hshoff.
Not going to critique the technical quality of the work (particularly since I'm not a front-end web guy), but as a hiring manager, I'd be frigging floored if someone spent an evening (maybe more? Although I suspect you're pretty quick by now, based on your comments) putting together a tight on-point microsite for my consumption.
The big job boards are a joke since they have reduced the entire process to buzzword bingo - and a fairly poor form of one at that. There's basically zero insight into how good someone actually is. Looking at someone's blog or contributions to open source projects is potentially an indicator, but there are a number of solid folks for whom that isn't a serious options (significant risk of their old economy management freaking out - a problem when you have a couple of dependents you need to keep fed, housed, and healthy).
So you get interviews like the one I conducted two weeks ago - "you have written free form SQL before?"...."yes, many times"... " Excellent, I have a little problem for us to solve..."
[walks to board, draws three data tables - one transaction file and two dimensions - and outlines a requirement for a basic report that involves joining, summing, and filtering data - I validated it with a recent hire, took him 3 min]
"uh"... twenty minutes later we bring the painful exercise to a close.... "I didn't think you would have me write code"
Huh? Huh? The job description explictly mentions that you need to know free form SQL COLD and asks that you have higher level programming experience (real languages). Do you seriously expect to get a role like that w/o coding?
Shoot - beats the cracker jack wanna-be pricing analyst we had apply off monster who explicitly mentioned his pricing experience...at Walmart... as a positive...
The one decent player in the online recruiting space that I've seen is linkedin - most of the contacts I've had off of that which show serious intent (eg. tailored message) are pretty promising. Especially if they are a connection of someone you trust.
Linkedin's biggest problem is that all participants get the same view of a candidate, including your corporate HR people (don't laugh - I was hauled in and yelled at about this a couple of years ago) - if there was a way to make more of this platform private, the value of the network would increase.
Just not fair. /sighs
Good luck!
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Took me 10 seconds writing out the tweet, but the face time I got out of it was very valuable. This is another thing one might look into to get the attention of companies.
http://twitter.com/newinyork/status/23146168087224320
http://twitter.com/newinyork/status/23154242558623744