Ask HN: Why are monitors matte and laptops glossy and not the other way around?
It boggles my mind why the thing that's meant to sit in one dark spot is protected from glare and the thing that's meant to be carried around is not. Is there any reason for this?
I understand that mobile phones have glossy screens to be more scratch resistant (although I'd still prefer a matte phone), but why laptops? Even MacBook Pro used to have a matte screen option 10 years ago but now all you can do is either buy an ugly screen protector or hide from the light.
61 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 113 ms ] threadI think what OP is asking is why aren’t monitors adopting the glossy finish of modern laptop screens?
Why this didn't happen to monitors I'm not sure. Perhaps monitors are more often purchased online based on comparing specs, but laptops are more of a fashion item since we managed to make computers pervasive in society.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/gyii6k/gaming_mon...
On phones, capacitive screens use a glass layer. Apple extended the glass layer to the laptops because it looked better (probably because matte screens looked worse than phones). Before them the screens were matte. Of course, everybody copied Apple and introduced glossy screens, because when looking at a glossy and a matte screen next to one another (in a shop) the glossy will win. And of course, everybody introduced glossy screens without the anti-reflection coating that Apple uses (cargo cult), so it made everything worse.
There was a time period when you had to really search for a non-glossy screen. Now it's a bit better, you can find them, but the touchscreen ones will always be glossy, and I did not yet see an OLED without glossy screen (could be because they are more fragile, although folding OLEDs do exist, so it's not clear).
Wait, is this why they push minimalist, tons-of-white-space design?
I hate glossy screens.
I cringe when someone shows me something on their laptop and the screen is imprinted with keyboard finger cheese.
At the time, I was a designer and it allowed for total focus on the work. By far, my favorite laptop experience.
Generally matte or antireflective screens are easy to find in the business laptop segment.
Not sure why Apple would do this though, since they largely compete with themself.
Another annoying aspect of screens is not bright enough during bright daylight and not dark enough in darkness.
Here's a group test of glossy screens from March 2007, you know.. before the iPhone was released:
https://www.pcworld.com/article/129979/article.html
Glossy screens became popular for watching DVDs on laptops from the mid-2000s
I used to do volume specs of laptops for a big enterprise as a side duty. The glossy displays became a thing ~2005. If you had a spec that incorporated brightness, glossy would always win.
Grousing about Apple is always fun, but I’m sure they would happily charge you $500 for an enhanced matte panel if anyone cared about it... nobody does.
As a developer, I could not use a glossy screen for the life of me. Thankfully there are many laptops with matte screen. I keep an up to date collection of them on Product Chart:
https://www.productchart.com/laptops/sets/1
I made a show HN when I created it for the first time. Let me find it ... ha! 5 years ago:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10197939
Unless we discover a type of glass that lets light pass in only one direction, this divide between matte and glossy screens will probably continue up to the day we all wear VR headsets.
I work at a company that amongst other things sells mid-high end monitors (mostly to photographers and graphic designers) for people who need the colours to be true (we distribute monitor-calibrators and colour systems). We also have Imacs that we look after for a customer in the office right now, and some cinema displays. We happened to be moving some stuff around recently and I was stuck by the texture differences between cinema displays and Imacs versus the lovely soft displays on say an Eizo or high end Benq.
I can only say it is all about looks rather than function for any machine with a glossy display.
I don't think my Thinkpad is as glossy as a MBP
Perhaps this thread should be titled, 'Why are Apple monitors shiny"
If I wanted a mirror I would’ve bought one.
My previous gen mbp 15 had a gorgeous matte screen which I love.
It’s sad to have to choose between macOS productivity and being able to see what I’m working on.
Non-coated glossy screens or with a cheap coating are clearly inferior in this regard.
Coming now to other motivations, a glossy screen at the point of sale: A Macbook with a glossy screen in a shiny Apple Store is just way more impressive and will trigger more impulse buys. It's like a jewel or expensive watch sparkling in all its glory at you. Glossy screens go also seamlessly to the edges or in other words, there is no bumpy plastic edge which just looks more like a slick and polished product. In contrast, ThinkPads are more of an enterprise product and not in need to trigger impulse buys + need to signal "hey I am workhorse for professional users" => matte screen. But be aware that Lenovo puts glossy screens on very similar specced Yoga models which target consumers and are found at the point of sales. Those models have also more showy aluminium cases while the Thinkpads have also beautiful cases but their beauty is more of a subtly beauty which needs longer to lure buyers into a buy (if they aren't loyal ThinkPad users already). To drive this even further, Lenovo recently introduced alu-cased Thinkpads and a new subbrand "Thinkbooks" to target really any user out there. So, matte or glossy is more about demographics and their value system and beliefs than about functionality.
Last advantage which most forget: High-dpi screens have eg way crisper fonts on glossy than on matte, hence are overall sharper, eg code or a terminal on a 300dpi glossy screen is just incredible (check out 4K 13-14 inch notebooks or Dells 8K 32 inch).
However, it is difficult to read if I bring my laptop outdoor in the cafe last time, during BC period (Before Coronavirus).
In addition to laptop and 20inch matte lcd monitor, I also have 43inch TV that I use to discuss design with my partner. It's good for short term, but I still prefer my matte screens for long usage.
- laptops are purchased by consumers and are shiny and modern looking. Personally I think glossy sucks, but it's like buying a shiny clean car when you see it in the store.
- monitors meanwhile, are very large and will not fall "in your shadow" so to speak. You will see everything behind you. Even with a matte screen, I have to turn off lights behind me to see dark ares on the screen, like when watching a movie.
It doesn't look pretty compared to a macbook, but it's much better on the eyes in a lit room.
(To clarify, Glossy screen is part of the reasons, but there are tons of thing I hate about macbook pro)
Hopefully Apple's micro-etched matte tech from the Pro Display XDR makes its way down to consumer machines.
On the topic of keyboards, is it just me who can't stand numpads on laptop keyboards, whenever I use them my hands feel weird being off-center..
Otoh, my sis who does subtitling finds the numpad essential to use the laptop. So different strokes for different folks.
Rather, I explained it differently based in user IQ/experience Vs choice of screen in comments...
Poor IQ people go for glossy, Good IQ people go matte. So, manufactures are forced to release more and more glossy laptops. Certainly, Apple played a big role in pushing glossy. Please forgive, I don't want to insult people with Laptop. I too have one glossy Laptop and two matte Desktop. It is a cruel joke for me!.
Some of the flashier models from the Apple wannabe manufacturers are starting to go glossy or have a glass overlay, especially if they have a touchscreen, but the vast majority of laptop displays are still matte.
E.g. All Thinkpads and Dell XPS models are available with matte displays
But credit where it's due... it is nice to be able to take a damp rag to it, vs. having a mild heart attack any time someone gets their fingers a little too close while pointing at something.
There are e-ink displays with colours, and there are e-ink displays with acceptable (to me) refreshrates (around 30hz). I'm not aware of any display that has both, but surely it will come.
Thing is, I don't think anyone will build a laptop with such a display, cause everyone is into selling sexy looking mirrors.
30Hz? Where?