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Ask HN: How to Motivate Unpaid Interns?

2 points by thewordpainter ↗ HN
one of the best luxuries we have as a startup in athens, ga is our access to UGA's 30k student body. we bring in 5-10 interns every semester at http://GoRankem.com (we have plenty more to choose from...), and best of all for a bootstrapped startup, the going rate around here is...nothing.

they're always super-excited when they come in, and despite telling them up front that i need self-motivated individuals that don't want to be micro-managed, the production tends to trail off unless i'm hands on and telling them what they need to do.

the best motivation i can point to is a former intern of ours busted his ass and we rewarded him with an equity stake moving forward.

what kind of motivation tactics of you used to increase productivity and get your interns/employees to try to best each other? any great ways to recognize great work that don't come off too cheesy?

-adam

22 comments

[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 70.4 ms ] thread
tokenadult
You are living dangerously with federal labor law if you are not paying the interns anything at all.

http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.pdf

If your internship program doesn't meet the Department of Labor regulatory test, you may owe pay to all of your interns.

A subsequent reply to the submission here said,

I really believe in paying interns if they are doing meaningful productive work

Well, that's not only a good idea, it's the law. Interns generally must be paid if the value of their work to the employer exceeds the value of the training program to the intern--which certainly appears to be the case described in the original post here.

Anyway, interns who work without pay while possessing computer skills are chumps. In the job market in my town, anyone with serious programming skill can get a paid internship readily at a company with a genuine future--whether that is a start-up or an established big corporation.

venturebros
Hmm that is very interesting! I had an "internship" a while ago. They never set any fixed length. After a week goes by they tell me that I do not fit the position. I thought "what position"?

According to that pdf if the internship was just a trial for a job then I was considered an employee. At least that is my understanding of what I read. I'm going to contact the department of labor and see if I am owed anything.

thewordpainter
thanks for sharing the link. i'll admit i'm not nearly familiar enough with the federal labor laws, but from my undergrad experience, i know it's common practice around here for many of the opportunities to be unpaid.

" Interns generally must be paid if the value of their work to the employer exceeds the value of the training program to the intern--which certainly appears to be the case described in the original post here." How would that be determined? All of the interns choose to work with us over other opportunities because of the hands-on real world experience.

"Anyway, interns who work without pay while possessing computer skills are chumps. In the job market in my town, anyone with serious programming skill can get a paid internship readily at a company with a genuine future--whether that is a start-up or an established big corporation." Athens, GA is a different breed. We are one of the only places in town where these students can get real world ruby experience. It's said, but essentially true.

grep
Paying them.
dbaugh
Seriously, just pay something even if it is only $10/hr or whatever service student jobs pay in the area. Not every kid can afford to work free for a summer regardless of the experience gained. Some people need to have a job with some income. Thats why some less privileged students get stuck working in restaurants and bars. Are you interns really not doing enough work to warrant minimum wage?
thewordpainter
to a bootstrapped entrepreneur who has literally run himself into the ground to get a b2c venture off the ground in a non-startup town, i can't afford to pay. the situation is made abundantly clear before they step through the door (and when i say door, i mean metaphorically because we don't even have an office...we meet on campus) ... yet, we still have students lining up the 'door' to intern with us every semester cuz we're the sexy opp in town (startup + music).

if i had the money/means/funding, i would have no problem compensating the ones that were bringing value to the table.

this should lead to a subsequent thread though: how should i pay for students workers when the CEO/company has no money coming through? as many credit cards as i can get my hands on?

dbaugh
Okay I apologize then. There are tons of companies who can afford to pay who don't. I think that a good way to motivate them is to give them a broad thing to do and let them try to do it whatever manner they want. Make it clear to them that you want them to be paid with learning and building up their skills.
sirwitti
perhaps see it from the interns point of view: you work your ass of and get....reputation?, some contacts if you´re lucky...

a former teacher at university once told us students to only do interships if we get something out of it. (money, reputation fame, whatever)

maybe you can offer them something they´d be excited about? martin

curt
I really believe in paying interns if they are doing meaningful productive work (programing, engineering, design, finance). I made good money in college as an intern and would never even contemplate working for free.
petervandijck
I'd work for free immediately if I could be Steve Job's intern (for example). I'm over 40.
curt
Ok yes there are exceptions. I'd do the same. My bad.
thewordpainter
curt, i'd be all for paying if the money was available. we have operated on a nonexistent budget and made it work.

my only hesitation about bringing money into the equation is i believe it can cloud the focus...and when the going rate around here is free internships, they're fortunately eager to pad their resume & get experience with us

petervandijck
Code reviews.

Saying "Awesome job!" is not cheesy.

Don't pit them against each other, give them a shared goal.

Set them up for quick wins as a team.

thewordpainter
with you on that, peter. big proponent of the collective team effort.

when i implied pitting them against each other, i was trying to imply that hopefully they have motivation to excel at their role instead of letting the dead weight bring them down.

olegious
I had plenty of unpaid internships (college credit was my payment) but motivated me the most was one on one time with my bosses- take them out to lunch, have weekly 1 on 1s with them where they get to ask you questions. An internship isn't about money- a smart intern will use it to figure out where they want to go after college, build connections and learn from their experienced bosses.
bartonfink
If I were an intern, I would want to know, up front, what I was getting out of the deal. I suspect your interns know they're not going to get paid, but they should get something out of the deal. Are you giving them individual attention and making an effort to build relationships with these kids? That's a common benefit of an internship - connections. Are you giving them active technical guidance, helping them develop as engineers? That's another common benefit. Is GoRankem something I should have heard of that I haven't? Yet another benefit could be brand recognition on a resume. Tales of one former intern who got an equity stake of dubious value aren't going to set people on fire if you aren't able to scratch their immediate itch.

If I were you, I'd figure out what your interns want and make damn sure I was able to give it to them. Otherwise, you're going to get this tailing off scenario where the interns realize they're getting a raw deal and just make time until they get out.

thewordpainter
" I suspect your interns know they're not going to get paid, but they should get something out of the deal. Are you giving them individual attention and making an effort to build relationships with these kids?" absolutely. i'm hands-on with everybody. even though their work may tail off towards the end of their experience, the great majority have positive things to say after it's over...in fact, many choose to stay in the loop of our progress.

"Is GoRankem something I should have heard of that I haven't? Yet another benefit could be brand recognition on a resume. " probably not on a real national level to date, but as i truly believe we can offer some of the best 'bullet-points' in town.

ch00ey
A couple years ago(my first year in Uni) I took an unpaid internship and I ended up getting a job out of it. So, from personal experience I'd suggest to do the following: - Have them do work that will in turn actually teach them things they want to do in their career. - DO NOT make them do boring menial tasks. - Engage them in actual company decisions. (Just because they are an intern doesn't mean they don't have good views) - Get to know them both on a work and personal level. (...or even offer being their mentor or introduce them to people they'd like to be mentored by)

All in all, since you aren't paying the interns you have to provide them with an experience that will be equivalent of getting paid.

Just my 2 cents though.

pkamb
Either potential equity or the potential to get hired.

Make that a stated goal for them, and have regular meetings/mentorship as to how they're doing.

It sucks to bust your ass on the offhand hope that one day your boss will say "you're hired!". It might not happen, and you have no idea. You get burnt out. But if that's a concrete goal you can achieve...

thewordpainter
i encourage them to aspire to be indispensable. that's what the former intern that earned his spot did.

i make sure their expectations coming in are understood. unpaid (we tell them to go out and find part-time (or full-time) paid work if money is a necessity). you'll come out with some great experience working with a company that's taking shape. great opportunity to get three strong & unique bullet-points on your resume (compared with the other opportunities in town).

pkamb
FYI, if one of the "expectations to be understood" coming in is that they likely won't be getting a job, tell them that straight up. That's what I'm talking about. The expectation of interning at Microsoft or whatever is that 70% of the interns will be getting full time jobs. If that's not the case for you, be frank about it.
thewordpainter
we're on the same page. they understand that the internship lasts a set timeframe. during the fall/spring, it's just an externship to help them boost their resumes. during the summer, they know it ends when they go back to school.

i did a terrible job conveying it earlier, but i am very clear about the expectations up front when i originally sit down with the prospective interns to see if it's a good fit for both parties.