I would've thought that the widget/tile implementation technology would be Silverlight, not HTML5/Javascript. Didn't we also see a playing down of Silverlight at MIX11? Has Silverlight fallen out of favor?
That is pretty awesome. Was a little worried about the integration with traditional Windows apps, and I still am, but it looks like they just might be able to pull it off.
I can see this being very nice for tablets, which was demonstrated, but I'm far more curious to see what kind of innovations they throw into a standard desktop version.
7:36PM Is Microsoft worried that enterprise users may see this and think it's too consumer-focused?
Not really -- employees are consumers too, and the lines have blurred somewhat. That has definitely been a recurring theme throughout D9, starting with Eric Schmidt's line that traditional IT is dead.
I agree, it's the long game that Apple has been playing... when all campus graduates have pretty much used Macs, and they use Macs at home, they start clamoring for them in the office too. I'm fairly sure I saw numbers indicating Macs making headway in enterprise.
Isn't that Chrome OS? Just enough OS to get your employees on to the websites that they use to do their job. (Only applicable for certain types of jobs, though)
While much of vender software has migrated to the web, purpose-built IT is still heavily reliant in old applications that date back decades.
Even something as simple as a time management system may take several years and tons of money to transition from decade-old WinForms app to new web app.
How will this work for people doing real work on their PCs? Apple (with Lion) and now MS seem to be treating power users as an afterthought after trendier tablet users. Don't get me wrong, I love the new stuff MS is doing on WP7, for example. But I still need a PC (or a Mac) for most of my work.
I'm a developer. A touch screen UI doesn't benefit me too much, just like I think it won't most business users. But maybe I'm wrong. We'll have to wait and see :)
From a UI design perspective, I think this will alienate lots of existing Windows users, which might lead them to sticking with Win7 (XP anyone?) or moving on to OS X Lion (to which Win8 is surprisingly similar).
Microsoft is taking their phone UI and scaling it to the desktop, which is a big risk given how many people use that phone.
I give them credit for taking a risk, but IMO, this is the last nail in the coffin of Windows.
I'll reserve my judgement about OSX Lion until Monday when Apple talks about it along with iOS5 but I'd take this windows interface over the iOS like Icon Grid in Lion any day.
Isn't taking a phone UI exactly what Apple is doing with Lion too? The large icon matrix and "full screen apps" are exactly what you see on an iPhone/iPad. Though it does feel more "optional" on the Mac relative to this video.
If Apple didn't have large multi-touch trackpads on their macbooks with a slew of natural gestures for navigating things like launchpad and mission control they WOULD be mindlessly scaling the iOS UI to the desktop... but alas, they have discernment and strong design.
From the end of the video: "This is the new version of Windows. It's gonna run on laptops, it's gonna run on desktops, it's gonna run on PCs with mouse and keyboard, it's gonna run on touch slates, it's gonna run on everything. Hundreds of millions of Windows PCs powered by this new interface and new platform."
based on the demo, underlying it is still the same old Windows.
At the point where he fired up Microsoft Words, it actually pulls up the usual desktop view.
So it is basically adding another layer of Metro UI to adapt to touch devices.
But yeah i guess you are right, if that's the only new thing in Win8, then perhaps some may consider sticking to Win7..
Another Windows Media Center.
It was nice, but it seemed always a little weird to reduce the functionality when there is the normal Windows underneath it. In the end did i click my videos in the normal mode.
It's not that bad, but just a little layer over their Win7 is a little disappointing. There will still be the annoying virus scanner in the background who makes noises and you will browse the files the same way like you did in 3.11.
If people are swtching because the UI alienates them then I understand them sticking to Windows 7 but why would anybody switch to Lion given that its even more alienating than Windows 7.
Besides, it looks like the OS will still have the old UI if people need to use old apps.
If people are swtching because the UI alienates them then I understand them sticking to Windows 7 but why would anybody switch to Lion given that its even more alienating than Windows 7.
If you're being forced to basically adopt a new product, then you start to consider all the possibilities.
But that doesn't mean when people want to buy a new car they go out and get a boat instead. Change from Windows 7 to Windows 8 is a marginal one. Change to another platform is much larger.
So you are saying that when people see that Windows 8 is different to what they currently use, they won't buy it, and instead they'll purchase a whole new, even more different operating system (OSX Lion)? I'm not sure I agree with that train of thought.
Did anyone else notice the Store icon on the start screen? I wonder if that will be the primary distribution channel for apps using the new UI. With any luck they'll sandbox apps like they do on Windows Phone 7. No more registry + dll hell.
It's also interesting that they only mentioned HTML5 + JS. Right now Silverlight is the only option for non-games on Windows Phone 7. Given how similar the UIs look, it would be a shame to be unable to share code between mobile and desktop versions of the same app.
I'm sure there will be some kind of a store for these dashboard apps. It's really not that different from a new skin on sidebar gadgets, is it? They're developed using HTML+JS and distributed through an online store. This UI looks great though and will definitely be beneficial to tablet/touchscreen computers.
There will still be registry+dll hell because the core operating system and applications will be running on the traditional windows environment in the background.
I think there was mention of how easy it will be to install/uninstall apps in the All Things D presentation earlier today. Registry+DLL hell might just die with 7.
This looks like the same kind of thing as "Windows Media Player." A skin on top of the OS that hides complexity. First problem, if I'm am app developer why am I going to build for the Win 8 UI and then rebuild again for the other 95% of Windows machines that don't support the new touch interface? I can build for the old standard windows interface and it will work everywhere.
But that's the point. There aren't 1B Win8 users and there won't be for a very long time. With iPad you have to build in Apple's eco system but with Win8 you have the option to build a standard Windows app. How many people are still running Win95 or XP? It will be a long time before Win8 reaches anywhere near 1B users.
Wow, this looks great! For the first time that I can think of, I'm actually excited about a new version of Windows. Even moreso, I'm actually excited about developing for Windows as a platform. This is huge.
Sure, I'm curious how the standard mouse and keyboard interface will work, but I'm not really worried. It looks like the standard Windows 7 interface is still there, just working behind the scenes and collaboratively with the new UI.
Agree that it looks good at first blush however it's key that the "OS" is a true OS and not a touch based shell on top of Windows7. HP has shipped a number of computers with these touch-based shells and while they demo well they aren't deep enough for day-to-day use. I do love that they are pushing the desktop platform and creating a product that is clearly different in user experience. I also like the idea of HTML as a rich platform but this was said back in the days of Windows98 so I'm waiting and seeing. (Disclosure I worked on the Windows team during 2000 and we had some similar explorations that never saw the light of day so it's great to see)
"...it's key that the "OS" is a true OS and not a touch based shell on top of Windows7....(Disclosure I worked on the Windows team during 2000 and we had some similar explorations that never saw the light of day so it's great to see)"
Do you know something that wasn't shown? It could just a full screen app that runs on top of the existing shell not a replacement shell with a sub process of the old shell. Or by having the quotes around OS when you say "OS" do you just mean a new interface?
What they showed was primarily the UX though. Nothing about the capabilities of the new "windows 8 apps". Though given that it has a powerful OS underneath it should have all the capabilities that windows provides.
It would be exciting to develop for this. Glad I familiarized with the metro look and feel developing for the Windows Phone. I can reuse it.
It doesn't look bad. In fact, it's nice. How it will work when you're using it to do real work will be where the rubber meets the road but I commend them for doing more than copying Apple. OS competition might now get interesting as it may no longer be an Apple to apples comparison (pun intended heehee.) As an Apple guy, I'm looking forward to what innovations they can bring with W8 and push the industry forward.
> How it will work when you're using it to do real work will be where the rubber meets the road...
That's where I wonder how well received this new interface will be. I wonder if this shell will just become something that most people skip past to get to the familiar Windows desktop. Granted, my experience as a power user (read: I'm a developer writing code and using the terminal--not on Windows but on OS X or Linux) is vastly different from that of a normal consumer, but I still think there is a common ground of using the computer to create rather than purely for consumption.
Still, very interesting concept. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing this released.
Yea, it was a thought I had too. It's similar to the Front Row and Media Center experience that most people probably don't use.
But I could see this having a different fate if it doesn't feel like a drag on the system and it can be made useful (as I think external developers will make it.)
Thinking about it a little more, it really seems odd to combine two very different modes of operation -- one touch heavy and probably best for a tablet or some sort of mobile device and the other is the standard Windows UI operated by keyboard and mouse. Having both modes on the same hardware seems like an odd situation. Usually, a device naturally maps to one or the other mode. I suppose hardware manufacturers might build tablet/laptop hybrids or convertibles (they definitely have been trying, but I don't think any are popular) and Windows 8 might be a huge win on these devices. However, aside from this narrow subset of devices, I'm still guessing how this will play out.
For instance, the device used in the demo (assuming it has no other mode of operation) seems to me that it would be a nightmare for using Excel.
Yea, it's the same trap that Win Media Center fell into. 2-feet mode versus couch mode. Though touch is different. The largest segment of computers from what I understand are laptops. If these laptops are fitted with a MacBook Pros style touchpad that would be sensitive as iPads, it could introduce a whole new dynamic that we can't fully understand until we truly experience it.
For example, imagine a version of Excel that you could do the sum of a set of numbers by speaking "sum up these numbers" and swiping your fingers over the set that you wanted to do the sum on. Excel as it exists today may not be the best user of touch but tomorrow's Excel may provide much smarter ways of getting better milage out of it. It truly will be dependent on how well MS developers can imagine.
Media Center is pretty limited in what it can do, though. You can't browse the internet or browse the file system from it for example - two things that were shown in new-style Win8 touch UI in this video.
This fits well with all the earlier talk about Windows 8 supporting ARM.
Microsoft isn't scaling Windows Phone 7 up to the tablet, they are scaling Windows 8 down to the tablet. By the time Windows 8 is released, it might be viable to run this OS on a phone. Will the mobile and desktop OS's merge?
This is great. I've been waiting for a while to see some sort of good desktop UI that got away from the classic icons + sidebar widgets design. While this provides the same functionality, it gives the user a lot more information at a glance, plus it looks nicer (IMO).
I really hope that store becomes some sort of primary distribution channel. After using Linux for so long, I've become so used to repositories that it makes me cringe to go find some obscure nagware application when ever I need to get something done on Windows.
The interface is beautiful but I think it will prove to be nothing more than eye candy veneer for an increasingly out-of-touch piece of software.
Let the desktop metaphor evolve respectively until it's no longer needed (by most), do not sap it's identity by tearing users between two very different modes of interaction. Once my brain is working in the desktop metaphor will it want to "zoom-out" to yet another layer of abstraction and back and forth? Surely this is a recipe for experience-degrading cognitive dissonance. When I stand up from working on my mac, pick up my iPad and then read a blog on the couch I have, subconsciously, switched to a drastically different set of interaction-metaphors for iPad use. ("Design dissolving into behavior." - Naoto Fukasawa)
If this interface found it's way on sub $100 20"+ smart screens (lcd or laser projected) with kinect-like interaction than you have a compelling product. Put it on Xbox and media center devices/tv's and you potentially have a new interaction ecosystem.
This Windows 8 concept is fighting reality and for it's eventual users it won't feel nearly as natural as their smartphones do today.
If they do it right, Windows 8 would be on the smart screen, on the Xbox, on the netbook, on the tablet, and on the smartphones a few years in our future when they're even faster than they are now. The UI may not be identical but it'd be the unified "Windows Everywhere" type thing Microsoft has seemingly always wanted to do.
If Microsoft can retain and gain mindshare you may very well be right, going forward I just doubt Microsoft's ability to "capture people's imaginations" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvskEGWMLp4).
If you buy a computer in 2012 it's gonna have Windows 8 on it (unless you buy a mac). Microsoft don't need to 'capture imaginations', they have the market share already.
I don't doubt Microsoft's ability to get Windows 8 into consumers homes as much as I do not doubt their ability to shoot themselves in the foot by pushing yet another half-baked product out the door.
Sure in 2012 millions will experience Windows 8, I would only add that 2012 may be the tipping point with OSX, iOS, Android, ChromeOS, PalmOS and others aggressively vying to inherit their share of consumers who choose to move on.
I'm ambivalent to Microsoft's success or failure, I'm simply extrapolating from current cultural undercurrents, the sentiment even long-time Windows user's now hold towards conventional Windows PC's is haggard at best and they're more open now than ever to exploring alternatives.
The cost structure of computing product manufacturers is changing, there is no longer a dire need for manufacturers to sacrifice margin to Wintel. Windows/office lock-In is dissolving. Any network-effect of being a Windows user is dissipating. As software capability moves to the cloud, and open-standards are adopted there simply isn't room for a bloated/expensive OS.
Decades ago I would not have bet against Windows, but today you can sense a perfect storm of competition approaching their gates.
If in 5 years Windows is still a dominant piece of software I will be surprised. However, I won't be surprised if Microsoft is still a main technology player in 5 years.
Windows will dominate business for at least 10 years.
Office isn't the lock in. It's all those Line of Business (LOB) Apps that run on Windows. Ironically many require internet explorer and are built in...Java, oddly enough.
Marketing departments could switch tomorrow. Operations (depending on industry) are locked in for years. Some are lucky enough to web based options, some are stuck on what they have.
A combination of the ever-lower barriers-to-entry for software development and increasing adoption of open standards.
Nearly all my friends (many non-techie) have switched to mac without a hitch. Some use Office for Mac, some use iWork.
The only users that are tied to Windows/Office are probably corporate/business users and that's certainly Microsoft's last stronghold.
The I.T. workforce has been programmed into the Microsoft ecosystem with a technical education of proprietary standards BUT what happens when it's developers who run the show? As the cloud decreases the need for much of the I.T. staff of your average company the leverage is shifted to web technology companies (and there developer ecosystems).
As we speak, somewhere in the world, an I.T. guy who used to maintain the email servers looses his job and in place Google offers the company hosted Google apps for a fraction of the cost. Google develops it's suite of office apps to be adequate MS office replacements within 3 years and easily convinces the company not to renew it's Microsoft Office licensing. Google Apps marketplace offers web-based alternatives to many legacy Windows software like the tightly integrated Salesforce Suite (with it's own web developer ecosystem). Without the need for Windows applications the company switches to a managed enterprise linux OS.
All the ducks are lined up, now hundreds of capable tech companies are beginning to execute their to-market strategies.
I'm not saying there is no Windows lock-in, what i am saying is that the Windows/Office lock-in strategy is becoming ever less defensible in a highly competitive market with lower barriers to entry.
When you realize that more and more VC capital is going into non-consumer web technologies, once you see that pool of dispersed rapid research and development you begin to see the force Microsoft is up against.
I pretty much disagree with you entirely. I think you're looking at it from your own technical perspective, which doesn't accurately reflect the average.
The growth figures in the article are sourced and you're right Apple only went up a few "degrees" (which because of Apple's relatively small enterprise market share results in a big growth percentage).
I never asserted it was "soooooo hot now", surely I.T. guys everywhere are still smitten with Microsoft and cleverly seeing Apple as rather toyish.
I only brought up Apple's headways into enterprise to prove to 'georgieporgie' that Microsoft's enterprise lock-in strategy is not insurmountable but instead increasingly ineffective.
I don't know why I use url shorteners, i guess they don't break-up the body of paragraphs as much and that makes me feel winning. No this is not twitter.
Being condescending and sarcastic to those whom you share affinity is not cool it merely tends to reverberate a rather toxic attitude throughout an otherwise friendly online community.
Your annoyed sentiment would suggest I came into your home and made disagreeable remarks, only we're in a commons and i was already in a conversation when you decided to balk in protest against misleading information.
BTW a push notification to my iPhone alerted me of your response so I got on my macbook to type this... does that make me a fan boy incapable of seeing apple's short-comings or microsoft's good? Do fanboys make you angry?
then our problem, my friend, has nothing to do with technology and everything to do with philosophy. i recommend you click this shortened url: http://bit.ly/ig2aLF
Seems to me that standing up from your PC, picking up that same PC and pressing a button to switch to Metro, then reading a blog from your couch is a much better experience than doing the same thing with 2 different devices.
I think even Apple is going in this direction with it's Back to the Mac stuff, albeit much more slowly (and will be lavished with praise when it completes the transition).
Interesting. I guess it will all come down to execution, attention to detail but no matter how i play it in my head i can't see the Metro display as anything more than a Flipboard-type utility- good, cool but limited.
Looks really nice. I really enjoy Microsoft's 2D designs. It started with Whistler, then Windows Mobile 6 (even if I liked nothing else from it), and continuing on to WP7 and now Windows 8.
Even if ARM consumes less power than Intel chips, I hope that the desktop underpinnings of Windows 8 don't bog it down and destroy battery life. I also hope there's an OEM that can build hardware that's up to snuff.
If anyone remembers the Productivity Future Vision (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvA9lA7_5FE) video, it looks like Microsoft is staying true to its beliefs about the future of interfaces in computing.
I did some quick overlays, and I applaud them for apparently paying attention to color blind users in their interface design. The colorful icons and sidebars all seem to provide contrast to the 8% of us dudes who are color blind.
I think I'm a forward thinking fellow but I don't see developer tools moving away from traditional keyboard (and usually mouse) environment for a long time. This seems like a slimmed down Windows Media Center layer powered by HTML/JS just like Windows Sidebar gadgets. It'll be great for tablets and touchscreen PCs but I don't see it being too beneficial to business users.
My first thought was "are you serious?" But then I remembered the Win8-on-ARM promise. I'm not sure I'd want to use a desktop (to me 'desktop' means 'workstation') like this, but it's interesting for sure. The more I think about it, the more the seems like a product of MS's unreleased Courier UI work.
This reminds me of a recent article about how Linux is inventing the future of the desktop experience. I disagreed immediately, and this UI is an example of why. I do prefer the Linux desktop experience to others, but it is a refinement on a core of existing ideas with a few small but important inventions. So it's more like a limo than a bus, which neither KDE nor Gnome are driving.
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Full screen apps look awesome. I can only think of how the web apps will look on Windows 8 devices now. Hopefully there will be no need to learn a new SDK and leveraging the Web technologies for building great apps that will work across all devices will be enough.
211 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 3401 ms ] threadTouch-first OS with Excel? I'd like to see that done right.
Not really -- employees are consumers too, and the lines have blurred somewhat. That has definitely been a recurring theme throughout D9, starting with Eric Schmidt's line that traditional IT is dead.
Consumer != powerless.
Even something as simple as a time management system may take several years and tons of money to transition from decade-old WinForms app to new web app.
Is it just me?
Microsoft converting all of it's desktop users to a touch-first OS is going to be... interesting.
Perhaps they will settle on multi-touch trackpads like the Apple Magic Trackpad to resolve the gorilla-arm issue?
Microsoft is taking their phone UI and scaling it to the desktop, which is a big risk given how many people use that phone.
I give them credit for taking a risk, but IMO, this is the last nail in the coffin of Windows.
Touchpad and touchscreen are comparable but not equal.
In the demo when he switched to the "desktop" it looked pretty much like any desktop OS to me.
in what way is Lion surprisingly similar to win8?
It's not that bad, but just a little layer over their Win7 is a little disappointing. There will still be the annoying virus scanner in the background who makes noises and you will browse the files the same way like you did in 3.11.
Besides, it looks like the OS will still have the old UI if people need to use old apps.
If you're being forced to basically adopt a new product, then you start to consider all the possibilities.
It's also interesting that they only mentioned HTML5 + JS. Right now Silverlight is the only option for non-games on Windows Phone 7. Given how similar the UIs look, it would be a shame to be unable to share code between mobile and desktop versions of the same app.
There will still be registry+dll hell because the core operating system and applications will be running on the traditional windows environment in the background.
Do you know something that wasn't shown? It could just a full screen app that runs on top of the existing shell not a replacement shell with a sub process of the old shell. Or by having the quotes around OS when you say "OS" do you just mean a new interface?
It would be exciting to develop for this. Glad I familiarized with the metro look and feel developing for the Windows Phone. I can reuse it.
That's where I wonder how well received this new interface will be. I wonder if this shell will just become something that most people skip past to get to the familiar Windows desktop. Granted, my experience as a power user (read: I'm a developer writing code and using the terminal--not on Windows but on OS X or Linux) is vastly different from that of a normal consumer, but I still think there is a common ground of using the computer to create rather than purely for consumption.
Still, very interesting concept. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing this released.
But I could see this having a different fate if it doesn't feel like a drag on the system and it can be made useful (as I think external developers will make it.)
For instance, the device used in the demo (assuming it has no other mode of operation) seems to me that it would be a nightmare for using Excel.
edit: added the last sentence.
This gives the video the feel of a Courier-like demo. Inspirational to look at, but not realizable in practice.
For example, imagine a version of Excel that you could do the sum of a set of numbers by speaking "sum up these numbers" and swiping your fingers over the set that you wanted to do the sum on. Excel as it exists today may not be the best user of touch but tomorrow's Excel may provide much smarter ways of getting better milage out of it. It truly will be dependent on how well MS developers can imagine.
Microsoft isn't scaling Windows Phone 7 up to the tablet, they are scaling Windows 8 down to the tablet. By the time Windows 8 is released, it might be viable to run this OS on a phone. Will the mobile and desktop OS's merge?
And as far as specs go, one of the demo devices was running an Intel Atom processor.
I really hope that store becomes some sort of primary distribution channel. After using Linux for so long, I've become so used to repositories that it makes me cringe to go find some obscure nagware application when ever I need to get something done on Windows.
Have a play with kde netbook stuff, pretty funky and solid. Also there is meego but i've never used it.
Let the desktop metaphor evolve respectively until it's no longer needed (by most), do not sap it's identity by tearing users between two very different modes of interaction. Once my brain is working in the desktop metaphor will it want to "zoom-out" to yet another layer of abstraction and back and forth? Surely this is a recipe for experience-degrading cognitive dissonance. When I stand up from working on my mac, pick up my iPad and then read a blog on the couch I have, subconsciously, switched to a drastically different set of interaction-metaphors for iPad use. ("Design dissolving into behavior." - Naoto Fukasawa)
If this interface found it's way on sub $100 20"+ smart screens (lcd or laser projected) with kinect-like interaction than you have a compelling product. Put it on Xbox and media center devices/tv's and you potentially have a new interaction ecosystem.
This Windows 8 concept is fighting reality and for it's eventual users it won't feel nearly as natural as their smartphones do today.
I don't doubt Microsoft's ability to get Windows 8 into consumers homes as much as I do not doubt their ability to shoot themselves in the foot by pushing yet another half-baked product out the door.
Sure in 2012 millions will experience Windows 8, I would only add that 2012 may be the tipping point with OSX, iOS, Android, ChromeOS, PalmOS and others aggressively vying to inherit their share of consumers who choose to move on.
I'm ambivalent to Microsoft's success or failure, I'm simply extrapolating from current cultural undercurrents, the sentiment even long-time Windows user's now hold towards conventional Windows PC's is haggard at best and they're more open now than ever to exploring alternatives.
Decades ago I would not have bet against Windows, but today you can sense a perfect storm of competition approaching their gates.
If in 5 years Windows is still a dominant piece of software I will be surprised. However, I won't be surprised if Microsoft is still a main technology player in 5 years.
Office isn't the lock in. It's all those Line of Business (LOB) Apps that run on Windows. Ironically many require internet explorer and are built in...Java, oddly enough.
Marketing departments could switch tomorrow. Operations (depending on industry) are locked in for years. Some are lucky enough to web based options, some are stuck on what they have.
It is? I'm genuinely curious to know what leads you to believe that.
Nearly all my friends (many non-techie) have switched to mac without a hitch. Some use Office for Mac, some use iWork.
The only users that are tied to Windows/Office are probably corporate/business users and that's certainly Microsoft's last stronghold.
The I.T. workforce has been programmed into the Microsoft ecosystem with a technical education of proprietary standards BUT what happens when it's developers who run the show? As the cloud decreases the need for much of the I.T. staff of your average company the leverage is shifted to web technology companies (and there developer ecosystems).
As we speak, somewhere in the world, an I.T. guy who used to maintain the email servers looses his job and in place Google offers the company hosted Google apps for a fraction of the cost. Google develops it's suite of office apps to be adequate MS office replacements within 3 years and easily convinces the company not to renew it's Microsoft Office licensing. Google Apps marketplace offers web-based alternatives to many legacy Windows software like the tightly integrated Salesforce Suite (with it's own web developer ecosystem). Without the need for Windows applications the company switches to a managed enterprise linux OS.
All the ducks are lined up, now hundreds of capable tech companies are beginning to execute their to-market strategies.
I'm not saying there is no Windows lock-in, what i am saying is that the Windows/Office lock-in strategy is becoming ever less defensible in a highly competitive market with lower barriers to entry.
When you realize that more and more VC capital is going into non-consumer web technologies, once you see that pool of dispersed rapid research and development you begin to see the force Microsoft is up against.
I'm asserting that if Microsoft's software lock-in strategy were effective Apple could not possibly make such gains into the enterprise/pc market.
The temperature increased by 66%, it must be soooooo hot now... oops it only went from 3C to 5C. Get it?
Also, why use URL shorteners? Is this twitter?
The growth figures in the article are sourced and you're right Apple only went up a few "degrees" (which because of Apple's relatively small enterprise market share results in a big growth percentage).
I never asserted it was "soooooo hot now", surely I.T. guys everywhere are still smitten with Microsoft and cleverly seeing Apple as rather toyish.
I only brought up Apple's headways into enterprise to prove to 'georgieporgie' that Microsoft's enterprise lock-in strategy is not insurmountable but instead increasingly ineffective.
I don't know why I use url shorteners, i guess they don't break-up the body of paragraphs as much and that makes me feel winning. No this is not twitter.
Being condescending and sarcastic to those whom you share affinity is not cool it merely tends to reverberate a rather toxic attitude throughout an otherwise friendly online community.
Your annoyed sentiment would suggest I came into your home and made disagreeable remarks, only we're in a commons and i was already in a conversation when you decided to balk in protest against misleading information.
BTW a push notification to my iPhone alerted me of your response so I got on my macbook to type this... does that make me a fan boy incapable of seeing apple's short-comings or microsoft's good? Do fanboys make you angry?
then our problem, my friend, has nothing to do with technology and everything to do with philosophy. i recommend you click this shortened url: http://bit.ly/ig2aLF
I think even Apple is going in this direction with it's Back to the Mac stuff, albeit much more slowly (and will be lavished with praise when it completes the transition).
Even if ARM consumes less power than Intel chips, I hope that the desktop underpinnings of Windows 8 don't bog it down and destroy battery life. I also hope there's an OEM that can build hardware that's up to snuff.
This reminds me of a recent article about how Linux is inventing the future of the desktop experience. I disagreed immediately, and this UI is an example of why. I do prefer the Linux desktop experience to others, but it is a refinement on a core of existing ideas with a few small but important inventions. So it's more like a limo than a bus, which neither KDE nor Gnome are driving.
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