It was a matter of many months, although not 100% all the time on it. I started with trying different designs for a single "down" key mechanism, then just kept broadening the scope - creating a single "cluster" of 5 keys and doing a little proof of concept with the electronics on it. Figuring out the thumb mechanisms.. figuring out the handrest, and the adjustable cluster mounting mechanisms, etc. I wouldn't say there was any particular "failed approach" per say, just a lot of little failed design details along the way, that were changed/improved over the course of the design.
It would probably take me about 40 hours (of me time - not including 3d printing, etc.) to make one from scratch at this point. For someone trying to figure it out for the first time, I would double or triple that at least. But once I finish some design tweaks I've been working on, which include some actual fabbed pcbs, it shouldn't be as bad.
Not exactly the same but this might solve your problem. I am adding a trackball to my dactyl manuform mini so I don’t need to switch between the keyboard and the mouse on my right hand.
I'm right-handed and use my left hand for mousing. I originally swapped so I wasn't having to move my hand over the number pad to get to and from the keyboard. I don't use a keyboard with a number pad any more, but I've stuck with it. It's quick to learn.
There are always chorders for that.
I use a DIY'd chorder similar to an Infogrip BAT sometimes - I'm much slower and have a higher error rate on it than on my split QWERTY setups (which typically have a trackball sitting between the halves), which see more use, but it's damn alluring.
Kudos to the maker here. This looks gorgeous, and very close to the datahand ads I remember.
The datahand was a keyboard fetish of mine, although I always wondered of actually usable it would be, especially considering the learning experience. Keep in mind this keyboard requires chording to obtain all normally usable symbols readily available on a traditional keyboard.
Making a clone of my advantage pro (my current and favorite keyboard) is somewhere in my todo list.
I'm still trying all sorts of weird keyboard/mice configurations. I have probably at least 10 really exotic keyboards in my collection.
Years ago I strapped the two sections of the split ergomagic keyboard section to the armrests of my chair, for a startrek-like experience. At least for me, it didn't turn out to be a great ergonomic experience.
It does technically require chording, but honestly not much more than a normal keyboard. Just a few extra "shift" keys, more or less. And normal textual input is pretty much all non-chorded.
I'm a tiny bit biased, of course, but I do find it quite usable. Even (or especially!) for gaming. But yeah, I've been using a datahand, and then later my lalboard as my primary keyboard at home and work for probably going on 15 years now.
What about the general experience writing code, or performing some seemingly mundane tasks such as ctrl/shift combinations for selections and commands?
I would guess this would still work pretty fine with a modal editor such as vi, but become potentially annoying in most other places where editing happens.
It takes a while to relearn that. Just normal typing isn't too hard to pick up - the muscle memory generally transfers reasonably well from a normal keyboard. But the cursor control stuff has to be completely relearned. But it's only annoying during that transition period. You do eventually develop the muscle memory for it, and it all becomes just as easy/automatic as on a normal keyboard.
I don't use vi unless I have to, so I can't comment on usability there, but I don't have any issues in normal text editors.
And for gaming... it seriously freakin' rocks :). As long as you're okay with a straight across "asdf" (or aoeu in my case) -- (back/left/right/forward) movement scheme, instead of the wasd cross. Having 20 keys right at your fingertips and all 3 modifiers available on the thumb is pretty much ideal for gaming. I generally customize the key mapping in the firmware per-game, and I'll usually have 2 or 3 modifiers mapped to the thumb, and often some "synthetic" modifier keys for even more combinations.
It's also great for numeric input - I find I have much much better muscle memory for that on this than I even did on a normal keyboard, since the numbers are such a long reach from the home row.
There are many keyboards like that, they are called split keyboards [1]. They use the same underlying principle as a standard keyboard, but just distance and angle the keys differently. The DataHand is a completely different paradigm, using different switches, keys and layout - closer to a chorded keyboard [2], but ergonomic and split.
As much as I enjoyed the idea of these kinds of keyboards, experience has taught me that I get too annoyed with learning a whole new layout, so I quickly switch back to a ‘normal’ keyboard.
I really need to get that moonlander out of it’s box again, but the hassle is just too much.
I've had similar issues switching until I landed on trying a Kinesis Freestyle. It's a qwerty layout but separates the two halves of the keyboard and lets you "tent" them for a more ergonomic angle.
Extremely minimal switching time between it and a standard fixed keyboard.
I found that once you get use to the other keyboard your muscle memory will automatically kick in and readjust depending if you're on a standard keyboard or a split.
I guess it's a personality thing. I actually love that whole experience - both when I switched to dvorak on a normal keyboard, and then again when I switched to a datahand.
I love the process of developing muscle memory, the mindless repetition, and that feeling of improvement. And especially once it really starts to click, and your fingers start going on autopilot.
If you want something to make it a bit less of a drudge, you can take a look at the Amphetype software, which lets you retype ebooks -- so you can basically read a book while practicing typing it.
It is something that has been on my plans for a time to refurbished an old laptop, buy an HDMI to LVDS controller board and replace its guts with a well supported ARM SBC.
Wouldn't be the first time someone does that, neither I would go as far as building my own keyboard but it is something I'd like to do.
As someone that owns a 3d printer, I'd guess that was a filament that went either old or unused for too long. Ideal for personal projects where you don't care, or that you might want to post-process anyway (sand/paint).
Happens frequently when you buy a roll of a hard-to-use color, such as this.
By experience I can say that most bright colors would look bad on a project such as this. Bright colors are fine only in very specific circumstances, or for highlights.
In almost every other case, a desaturated color looks better. Off-white and dark-grey are my most-used colors.
> Most of the parts are printed from a PLA with a low amount of metal-fill, which I found to have exceptional opacity
So, I'm guessing that they wanted the keys to have a bit more weight that the metal-filled PLA would provide? I'm not sure why the opacity of the material matters so much, but the author mentions that a few times.
Edit: nope, not weight... actual light blocking was needed.
> For the clusters and keys, you want as opaque of a material as you can get. Try printing a small 2mm thick solid sheet, and hold a flashlight up to the back. Ideally, you won't see any light leakage through the print at all. I tried a few different filaments that I had on hand, and by far the most opaque was some 5% copper filled PLA by Gizmo Dorks.
After reading this, I think the issue is the optical switches that are used for the keys. Because they are using an IR LED/phototransistor switch mechanism, the material needs to be as opaque as possible to prevent light from coming through and activating the switches accidentally.
Mmh, I wouldn't have used copper-fill on something that goes directly in contact with skin.
I had issues with light leakage with thin layers of poor-quality PETG (with light shining through as a dark-green halo), but I've printed microscope light-shields with plain black PLA and PETG with only 1.5mm thickness.
I'd surprise me if the leakage from the material would be greater than the light that comes in from the hinge itself, but I guess the author has done some tests.
I'm honestly not convinced it's actually copper filled. The listing says it is, but its density says otherwise. Regardless, it was the most opaque thing I had on hand, so.. :)
There's some good info on opaque filament that people have found on this thingiverse object: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1662956. Personally, I've also had good luck with eSun's black PLA, although it was a fairly old roll, so who knows if their formulation is still the same. And their black PETG definitely isn't very opaque.
As I wrote before, I frequently go mostly with some gradation of grey nowdays. I keep a selection of fingernal varnish colors for finishing touches. They dry quick, cheap, are available in any shade you need in small volumes (so you can have variety over quantity). Especially the "gel" variants often require a single coat. I wonder if this could also work for shielding, just in case you're going to repeat the print :)
Seeing the name JesusFreke is such a throwback for me. He was really instrumental to the early Android hacking scene on the T-Mobile G1. I remember as a teen not-so-patiently awaiting JF firmware versions to drop so I could try out features like bad multitouch and storing apps on the SD card since the internal memory was so small.
The vinyl cut thing was super useful during the prototype stage, while things were still in flux, and the much shorter turnaround time was advantageous. Although it turned out to be a little side-project all its own, so not entirely sure if it was worth it. But it was a fun side-project none-the-less. And that's what counts in my book, at least!
46 comments
[ 3.7 ms ] story [ 112 ms ] threadHow long did it take you to complete this very cool/useful project?
What approaches did you try that did not work out?
How long would you say it would take you to make an extra pair? (trying to find out how many weekends I should block)
It would probably take me about 40 hours (of me time - not including 3d printing, etc.) to make one from scratch at this point. For someone trying to figure it out for the first time, I would double or triple that at least. But once I finish some design tweaks I've been working on, which include some actual fabbed pcbs, it shouldn't be as bad.
http://blog.monstuff.com/archives/000021.html
https://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3067497
They claim you can type up to 85 wpm. I might be able to type faster.
I assume that if you’re right-handed, then you’ll use your mouse on your right hand. So you would need the left-handed version of this keyboard.
Anyone here ever use it before? Any feedback?
The company also make keyboards for people with no working hands.
https://www.maltron.com/store/p24/Maltron_Head%2FMouth_Stick...
The datahand was a keyboard fetish of mine, although I always wondered of actually usable it would be, especially considering the learning experience. Keep in mind this keyboard requires chording to obtain all normally usable symbols readily available on a traditional keyboard.
Making a clone of my advantage pro (my current and favorite keyboard) is somewhere in my todo list.
I'm still trying all sorts of weird keyboard/mice configurations. I have probably at least 10 really exotic keyboards in my collection.
Years ago I strapped the two sections of the split ergomagic keyboard section to the armrests of my chair, for a startrek-like experience. At least for me, it didn't turn out to be a great ergonomic experience.
At home I'm using a foot mouse.
The below link is software that came up in internet search to check if eye tracking was in fact a thing:
https://precisiongazemouse.org/
It does technically require chording, but honestly not much more than a normal keyboard. Just a few extra "shift" keys, more or less. And normal textual input is pretty much all non-chorded.
I'm a tiny bit biased, of course, but I do find it quite usable. Even (or especially!) for gaming. But yeah, I've been using a datahand, and then later my lalboard as my primary keyboard at home and work for probably going on 15 years now.
I would guess this would still work pretty fine with a modal editor such as vi, but become potentially annoying in most other places where editing happens.
I don't use vi unless I have to, so I can't comment on usability there, but I don't have any issues in normal text editors.
And for gaming... it seriously freakin' rocks :). As long as you're okay with a straight across "asdf" (or aoeu in my case) -- (back/left/right/forward) movement scheme, instead of the wasd cross. Having 20 keys right at your fingertips and all 3 modifiers available on the thumb is pretty much ideal for gaming. I generally customize the key mapping in the firmware per-game, and I'll usually have 2 or 3 modifiers mapped to the thumb, and often some "synthetic" modifier keys for even more combinations.
It's also great for numeric input - I find I have much much better muscle memory for that on this than I even did on a normal keyboard, since the numbers are such a long reach from the home row.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergonomic_keyboard#Split_keybo...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorded_keyboard
Kinesis and Ergodox are generally the two most popular.
I really need to get that moonlander out of it’s box again, but the hassle is just too much.
Extremely minimal switching time between it and a standard fixed keyboard.
I love the process of developing muscle memory, the mindless repetition, and that feeling of improvement. And especially once it really starts to click, and your fingers start going on autopilot.
If you want something to make it a bit less of a drudge, you can take a look at the Amphetype software, which lets you retype ebooks -- so you can basically read a book while practicing typing it.
It is something that has been on my plans for a time to refurbished an old laptop, buy an HDMI to LVDS controller board and replace its guts with a well supported ARM SBC.
Wouldn't be the first time someone does that, neither I would go as far as building my own keyboard but it is something I'd like to do.
But the shape is gorgeous!
Happens frequently when you buy a roll of a hard-to-use color, such as this.
By experience I can say that most bright colors would look bad on a project such as this. Bright colors are fine only in very specific circumstances, or for highlights.
In almost every other case, a desaturated color looks better. Off-white and dark-grey are my most-used colors.
> Most of the parts are printed from a PLA with a low amount of metal-fill, which I found to have exceptional opacity
So, I'm guessing that they wanted the keys to have a bit more weight that the metal-filled PLA would provide? I'm not sure why the opacity of the material matters so much, but the author mentions that a few times.
Edit: nope, not weight... actual light blocking was needed.
From: https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard/wiki/Printing-tips-&-...
>Filament choice
> For the clusters and keys, you want as opaque of a material as you can get. Try printing a small 2mm thick solid sheet, and hold a flashlight up to the back. Ideally, you won't see any light leakage through the print at all. I tried a few different filaments that I had on hand, and by far the most opaque was some 5% copper filled PLA by Gizmo Dorks.
After reading this, I think the issue is the optical switches that are used for the keys. Because they are using an IR LED/phototransistor switch mechanism, the material needs to be as opaque as possible to prevent light from coming through and activating the switches accidentally.
I had issues with light leakage with thin layers of poor-quality PETG (with light shining through as a dark-green halo), but I've printed microscope light-shields with plain black PLA and PETG with only 1.5mm thickness.
I'd surprise me if the leakage from the material would be greater than the light that comes in from the hinge itself, but I guess the author has done some tests.
There's some good info on opaque filament that people have found on this thingiverse object: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1662956. Personally, I've also had good luck with eSun's black PLA, although it was a fairly old roll, so who knows if their formulation is still the same. And their black PETG definitely isn't very opaque.
Found an old thread to take you back: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/modified-rc30-full-versio...
If folks remember one of the first hacks on the g1 was the physical keyboard actually sending keystrokes to the terminal (which allowed to enable SU)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooting_(Android)#Rooting_thro...
https://github.com/JesusFreke/lalboard/wiki/Vinyl-Cut-PCBs
The vinyl cut thing was super useful during the prototype stage, while things were still in flux, and the much shorter turnaround time was advantageous. Although it turned out to be a little side-project all its own, so not entirely sure if it was worth it. But it was a fun side-project none-the-less. And that's what counts in my book, at least!