Seems like a disingenuous title, as its own data shows it's fifth in terms of rollout (third for 2 doses). Yes it's distributed the most as far as pure numbers, but that's only because of how large the country is compared to Israel, and therefore can dedicate more resources and manpower (and needs to) for its distribution.
If anything the title should be 'Israel's vaccine rollout is world-beating'.
U.S. is doing pretty well compared to most other countries though, for sure.
Also the U.S. needs to be good at this because it's been so terrible at managing it otherwise. Countries like Australia and New Zealand and some countries in Asia can be more careful with vaccination approval because it's done such an excellent job of handling the virus, so well that it actually has to balance the side effects of the vaccine versus not getting vaccinated.
The US has to go "Well, at least the vaccine is better than the very good chance you're going to get Covid-19", which is basically what the emergency approval means.
American exceptionalism at its worst. “World beating”, “One of the top countries (apart from the ones ahead of it)”. The US is doing well, very well, but it’s certainly not world beating by any metric.
I don’t think the grandparent comment is taking exception to the phrase so much as the fact that it is verifiably false (and is even directly contradicted in the article body!).
> For Europe, one big obstacle was that the EU decided to bargain for vaccines as a group, which made the process of securing shots very cumbersome. As a result, the region got cheaper vaccine prices but delayed delivery. The EU regulatory state has also reportedly gotten in the way of rapid approval.
I think, the emphasis is wrong there on bargaining as a group. The US bargained also "as a group", if you will.The EU prioritised (in my eyes wrongly) pricing over speedy delivery and was risk averse:
The US purchased most of the doses a whole half year before approval, the EU only bargained for options on vaccines pending approval.
There is a 10 day delay between the emergency approval of the FDA and the full approval of the EMA. But we do not see a 10 day delay in the vaccinations.
A delay of a ramp-up on the other hand by half-a-year looks more like what we see.
Also, the US does not allow exports of the vaccines produced in the US. To my knowledge, no such restrictions are in place in the EU.
As far as I know it's not actually true. There was some speculation that the US might ban vaccine exports, and apparently this was why the UK wanted at least one locally-produced vaccine, but I'm pretty sure only the EU actually went ahead and did it. In fact, there were some suggestions that the UK might actually have to switch its source for the Pfizer vaccine to the US as a result.
American schools heavily teach American exceptionalism, at least in my experience. Basically that our values make us special and better then everyone else.
>Don't most countries teach that their kids they are good country?
Not such level BS. The teach the country's history, they try to portray most wars/disputes etc. from the perspective of the country (though most also allow for balance), and so on. Few, if any, countries tells students that they're some unique exception upon the world, or have some burdern to lead the others. Colonial Britain and WWII-era Germany comes to mind.
Yeah, this is pretty standard in the USA. Or at least it was when I went to school. I was born in the 1970s... I imagine it has changed some.
Good news is that this BS is generally NOT taught at a college/university level.
Which explains a lot about our country... and our divide... as well. A large percentage of the country has been exposed to education that does not teach such ridiculous beliefs.
So we have "educated" folks with a slightly more realistic view of the world. And then "everybody else" who has only been taught that America is a magical place.
My god what an unconstructive stance.
I have just now learned about this idea of US exceptionalism, and have just read the linked wikipedia article about it. Apparently it is not supposed to merely be an ineffable magical quality. It is supposed to have some basis in reality. So it can be easily dispelled with a little bit of data. For someone with 3rd level education it should be trivial. Also, purely anecdotal, but several US HN users have responded to me saying they were actually taught this nonsense in their 1st and 2nd level school education.
and the ones who merely think that their
own tertiary education group is Great.
I think you managed to combine strawman and false dichotomy fallacies there. Kudos, I suppose.
There are plenty of folks with postsecondary education who think highly of America, and I'm one of them. It is highly flawed, and also a pretty good place. We get a lot of things right.
Let me be crystal clear: what I'm opposed to is simplistic, jingoistic, one-sided "America is the greatest thing ever" fantasies of American exceptionalism. This is how my primary and secondary education, in a fairly decent public school district in the 80s and 90s, generally described America.
And that's mild, as far as "American exceptionalism" goes. My dad's wife is a member of a radical Christian sect. On a regular basis, she mails me glossy pamphlets and brochures describing how America's greatness is literally foretold in the Bible. There are significant numbers of Americans who believe this wholeheartedly.
There is a clear divide between such delusional fantasies, and a more nuanced view of America. But that doesn't mean all of us on the rational side of the divide think it's an awful place or something like that.
As for me, I don't even have a postsecondary degree. Just some postsecondary education. Not exactly ivory tower stuff. But some of it was eye opening. Ideally our public primary/secondary schools would just teach America's flaws as well as its strengths.
Not a strawman at all. It is quite common for people with a post-secondary education to think that they have fundamentally better critical-thinking skills and are much less prone to propaganda, just because they have sat in lecture halls for 4–9 years. And you don’t exactly dispute or disprove that, degree or not.
I personally expect people with post-secondary education to be more ideological than people without one. After all, they’ve been in some kind of educational institution for longer...
It is quite common for people with a post-secondary
education to think that they have fundamentally better
critical-thinking skills and are much less prone to
propaganda, just because they have sat in lecture halls
for 4–9 years
sigh.
There's no way to be clear enough against somebody with a bad-faith agenda.
It's pretty clear you want folks with postsecondary education to disdain those without it.
Perhaps you had a bad experience with education, perhaps it simply feels good to you to tee off on perceived elitism -- whether it actually exists or not. You wouldn't be the first. Some people just get off on that underdog angle.
I regret to inform you that I do not think that postsecondary education automatically makes anybody better than anybody else at any particular thing, and few do, and I've not said such a thing ever. Do I think there's a positive correlation between like, education and critical thinking skills? Yeah, sure. I'd also agree that universities turn out plenty of idiots, and of course some education sucks and can be worse than none at all, and that at best formal education is just one component of being a well-rounded person. All hail the autodidact.
In reality, American strength came from protection of two oceans, peaceful neighboring countries, and a rich amount of natural resources. Oil, timber, gas, sun, wind. America has plenty.
There was also the massive boom that WW2 gave the American economy. While other countries were rebuilding their infrastructure, America was able to capture markets with the revved up manufacturing that was built during the war.
In school I was taught, "You're so lucky to have been born here. We're the best country in the world at everything." I'm not exaggerating, and we were told to expect to be the best all the time.
They used to compare the state of the US after Europe was ravaged for a century by WWI and WWII (both of which had minimal impact on the US), and thought their shit doesn't stink.
(Forgotting that in the 18th century most of the US was still a provincial backwater - some states basically mostly wild land -- and Europe had far more modern and beautiful cities and better infrastructure).
That, plus the heritage of some religious inspired BS from the earlier Americans (religious zealots from Europe), of the place being some beacon for the world, having a "manifest destiny", and so on...
I don’t think this statement by the author makes much sense in this context. The author states later that “the U.S. system of public-private partnership has proven its worth once again”, but one is not taught to expect much at all from the public sector in America; one is on the contrary told that the government can only make mistakes and that the private sector is more efficient and fault-tolerant.
If anything this “public-private partnership” goes against what Americans have been taught for the last half-century.
They describe the rollout as world beating in the headline but simultaneously acknowledge there are a number of countries ahead of the US in several aspects of it. It really isn't a competition but this is just nationalistic nonsense.
It’s a counterpoint to a narrative that is (was?) widespread among American commentators, that the US rollout is uncommonly terrible because the country can’t work together.
> One reason Canada has fallen far behind its neighbor to the south is that it ordered lots of doses from European factories that have struggled to meet production quotas.
Canada were forced to work with Europe as Americans won't export any vaccines. I know dozens of 20-30 year olds vaccinated in America, while the largest hospitals in Canada haven't vaccinated even a fraction of their staff. Luckily for America, Canadians are too busy blaming each other for it to really damage the international relationship.
Mostly blaming past Prime Ministers Brian Mulroney (Progressive Conservative) and Stephen Harper (Conservative) for destroying their capacity to produce vaccines.
The one thing that isn't being mentioned here is the cost of the vaccine.
The Astra Zeneca one may well be less effective (though it still should massively reduce hospitalisations and deaths), but the US/DE ones offer virtually no hope to most of the world given their dosage costs (£28 Moderna, £15 Pfizer). The AZ one goes for £3.
So yes, the US/DE vaccines may be world-beating (perhaps). At a mimimum of 5 times the cost, though, they're not exactly world-saving - which is what is really needed.
Disclosure: I'm British, but this isn't jingoism as I fully accept the UK has largely screwed up almost everything in its pandemic response. For the vaccine rollout though we've managed to get our own production capacity and a fast delivery based, despite the article, on the schedule AZ actually recommend (12 week gap, as longer gaps are being shown to give better protection, within limits).
47 comments
[ 19.2 ms ] story [ 135 ms ] threadIf anything the title should be 'Israel's vaccine rollout is world-beating'.
U.S. is doing pretty well compared to most other countries though, for sure.
Also the U.S. needs to be good at this because it's been so terrible at managing it otherwise. Countries like Australia and New Zealand and some countries in Asia can be more careful with vaccination approval because it's done such an excellent job of handling the virus, so well that it actually has to balance the side effects of the vaccine versus not getting vaccinated.
The US has to go "Well, at least the vaccine is better than the very good chance you're going to get Covid-19", which is basically what the emergency approval means.
Exactly. When you bungle the early response it increases the urgency for vaccine administration.
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=world-beating
I think, the emphasis is wrong there on bargaining as a group. The US bargained also "as a group", if you will.The EU prioritised (in my eyes wrongly) pricing over speedy delivery and was risk averse: The US purchased most of the doses a whole half year before approval, the EU only bargained for options on vaccines pending approval.
There is a 10 day delay between the emergency approval of the FDA and the full approval of the EMA. But we do not see a 10 day delay in the vaccinations.
A delay of a ramp-up on the other hand by half-a-year looks more like what we see.
Also, the US does not allow exports of the vaccines produced in the US. To my knowledge, no such restrictions are in place in the EU.
Can you cite this?
https://www.statnews.com/2020/05/15/under-an-america-first-p...
https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-digest-trump-orders-priori...
One correction: the EU also introduced export restrictions a few weeks ago.
Serious question for users from US: What "magic" are ye taught to expect? And where / when are ye taught to expect it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism
....
Hmm, actually after a tiny bit of rumination on that new information, that actually could explain a lot.
Not such level BS. The teach the country's history, they try to portray most wars/disputes etc. from the perspective of the country (though most also allow for balance), and so on. Few, if any, countries tells students that they're some unique exception upon the world, or have some burdern to lead the others. Colonial Britain and WWII-era Germany comes to mind.
Prideful counties are hardly unheard of in the world.
Good news is that this BS is generally NOT taught at a college/university level.
Which explains a lot about our country... and our divide... as well. A large percentage of the country has been exposed to education that does not teach such ridiculous beliefs.
So we have "educated" folks with a slightly more realistic view of the world. And then "everybody else" who has only been taught that America is a magical place.
There are plenty of folks with postsecondary education who think highly of America, and I'm one of them. It is highly flawed, and also a pretty good place. We get a lot of things right.
Let me be crystal clear: what I'm opposed to is simplistic, jingoistic, one-sided "America is the greatest thing ever" fantasies of American exceptionalism. This is how my primary and secondary education, in a fairly decent public school district in the 80s and 90s, generally described America.
And that's mild, as far as "American exceptionalism" goes. My dad's wife is a member of a radical Christian sect. On a regular basis, she mails me glossy pamphlets and brochures describing how America's greatness is literally foretold in the Bible. There are significant numbers of Americans who believe this wholeheartedly.
There is a clear divide between such delusional fantasies, and a more nuanced view of America. But that doesn't mean all of us on the rational side of the divide think it's an awful place or something like that.
As for me, I don't even have a postsecondary degree. Just some postsecondary education. Not exactly ivory tower stuff. But some of it was eye opening. Ideally our public primary/secondary schools would just teach America's flaws as well as its strengths.
I personally expect people with post-secondary education to be more ideological than people without one. After all, they’ve been in some kind of educational institution for longer...
There's no way to be clear enough against somebody with a bad-faith agenda.
It's pretty clear you want folks with postsecondary education to disdain those without it.
Perhaps you had a bad experience with education, perhaps it simply feels good to you to tee off on perceived elitism -- whether it actually exists or not. You wouldn't be the first. Some people just get off on that underdog angle.
I regret to inform you that I do not think that postsecondary education automatically makes anybody better than anybody else at any particular thing, and few do, and I've not said such a thing ever. Do I think there's a positive correlation between like, education and critical thinking skills? Yeah, sure. I'd also agree that universities turn out plenty of idiots, and of course some education sucks and can be worse than none at all, and that at best formal education is just one component of being a well-rounded person. All hail the autodidact.
There was also the massive boom that WW2 gave the American economy. While other countries were rebuilding their infrastructure, America was able to capture markets with the revved up manufacturing that was built during the war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism#:~:tex....
This is right, especially given much of the world is in abject poverty & starvation.
(Forgotting that in the 18th century most of the US was still a provincial backwater - some states basically mostly wild land -- and Europe had far more modern and beautiful cities and better infrastructure).
That, plus the heritage of some religious inspired BS from the earlier Americans (religious zealots from Europe), of the place being some beacon for the world, having a "manifest destiny", and so on...
If anything this “public-private partnership” goes against what Americans have been taught for the last half-century.
Canada were forced to work with Europe as Americans won't export any vaccines. I know dozens of 20-30 year olds vaccinated in America, while the largest hospitals in Canada haven't vaccinated even a fraction of their staff. Luckily for America, Canadians are too busy blaming each other for it to really damage the international relationship.
The Astra Zeneca one may well be less effective (though it still should massively reduce hospitalisations and deaths), but the US/DE ones offer virtually no hope to most of the world given their dosage costs (£28 Moderna, £15 Pfizer). The AZ one goes for £3.
So yes, the US/DE vaccines may be world-beating (perhaps). At a mimimum of 5 times the cost, though, they're not exactly world-saving - which is what is really needed.
Disclosure: I'm British, but this isn't jingoism as I fully accept the UK has largely screwed up almost everything in its pandemic response. For the vaccine rollout though we've managed to get our own production capacity and a fast delivery based, despite the article, on the schedule AZ actually recommend (12 week gap, as longer gaps are being shown to give better protection, within limits).