Ask HN: Alternatives to Suicide?
I am struggling with my mental health, to the point I really need a radical change, which I’m not fit to properly decide at the moment.
My problem is that I’m not mentally fit to work anymore. I’m depressed, suffer from post-covid brain fog, and I’m really stressed and tired. But at the same time I can’t live with my parents because at their home is where my mental health deteriorates the most. I’m not rich to just leave my work and live on my own.
I’m considering either becoming a monk or committing a minor crime just to get in prison and don’t live there anymore. Any suggestion is welcome because my brain is not working as it should.
58 comments
[ 4.0 ms ] story [ 121 ms ] thread- exercise can improve your mood and self confidence. Be sure to not compare yourself to those already fit
- medication can be helpful. It really depends so you should consult a doctor.
- counseling is helpful. It might take a few tries to find someone who clicks though
I think it’s important not to compare yourself to others. Focus on yourself and celebrate small wins.
- I don’t have any specific diagnosis regarding my mental health so I don’t take anything.
- Could you elaborate on the counseling thing? You mean like a psychologist?
The last point is very good. However, I’m not really “competitive”. I just want to live in peace. Thanks for your answer.
Along with medications, cognitive behavior therapy (CBT) understanding is very well distributed through therapists these days. I've found it to be very effective for my own depression and anxiety issues, to the point that, for me, medication is not necessary. Even if you go down the medication route, CBT is still a great addition to medication and talk therapy in general.
You also mentioned having "post COVID brain fog", it's good that you recognize that at least part of the issue is external to your own self (though not to your own body and brain). As frustrating as something like that can be it's important to remember that it's temporary. I've discovered that I experience a similar long term brain fog after receiving general anesthesia which led to some exasperation in the past, but with understanding I can at least work through it now after surgeries. I had a surgery last August and basically lost most September-November to my mental recovery, but not as bad as previous surgeries where I didn't understand/know this about myself.
If you have healthcare, please try to connect with a psychologist or other form of councilor. They can help, though it sometimes can take a few tries to find one you click with.
Mental health is tricky. I can offer ideas, but it’s hard to know what will help you. Throwing various ideas out there:
Exercise helps.
If you’re not getting enough sleep get more. Meds can help in the short term if your mental health is interfering with sleep. You can also look into melatonin (helps for some) if it’s falling asleep (vs staying asleep).
You can try various meditation apps as well as activities that let you get out or at least people watch (nature walk, hanging out at a busier park/cafe, etc.)
Would a more hands on activity or screen free hobby help? Maybe volunteering at an animal shelter, or other similar org.
I’m not sure where you are located or your finances but are there absolutely no other housing options? (Shelter, friend, Airbnb room).
Would a short getaway help? Camping is cheap if that’s your thing.
Sincere thanks for your answer.
As much as we are all clever here on HN, this isn't what we do for a living, and it is 100% what therapists do. They will be able to help.
Taking time to relax is critical and we miss it out in all the rush. Just living with content is not expensive and it is a "monkish" lifestyle.
Even taking an inexpensive trip through Mexico by bus (Autobuses ADO) and staying in hostels might effectively hit a 'reset' button.
If you've already had COVID, you don't have to worry about that, and climbing a few ancient pyramids, eating fried lime/salt crickets, and being surrounded by new sights, smells, and sounds at the tianguis might yank you out of your fog.
[0]https://www.pcta.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/National-Tra...
California, for instance, has SDI, which is pretty generous in terms of the kinds of conditions it will cover. Depending on how much you make it might not cover 100% of your wages, but it's also not taxable, so it comes out about even. I don't know much about other states, and even less about other countries; that's just an example.
Maybe you could spend some time camping on a bicycle/hiking/slow-walking trip? Basically being homeless, but in a healthy way. Come by your parents house as needed?
Reading ancient history and ancient primary sources is my most therapeutic-feeling form of mental escapism. Maybe it could help you to project your mind back a few couple years.
Of course, you should get someone to help you. Either friends/family and/or professionals. This is normal human problem stuff you're going through and it's okay to need help.
As others already commented, please ASAP reach out to a professional. I don't know where you live, but I am very sure such a hotline exists pretty close to you.
My friend called such a hotline and he got help and he is better now.
I know this is a huge step to take, but reaching out will help and it is professionals taking care and they know what they do.
Whatever your circumstances are, someone will pick you up again.
Please call; there is no reason to feel embarrassed for whatever.
PS: I've been reading HN for years now and never commented here, but I just signed up now to reach out to you.
Talking to anonymous people on the Internet is very likely not enough, as you already stated.
Again, I think you should talk to a professional and finding such a hotline - wherever you live - hopefully should not be that difficult.
Okay guys. Please. Stop suggesting professional mental healthcare as if it's something pretty much everyone has access to. In most US counties, therapy exists for those who can afford pricey insurance policies or can pay out of pocket - and that's it.
Some hotlines are staffed with mental health pros. NSP Lifeline is one. Smaller ones tend to be staffed with local volunteers. Either way, a hotline call isn't a solution. It's crisis intervention, at most a single step.
Honestly, for people who live without access to mental healthcare, telling them to just go get professional help is is effectively sending them on a snipe hunt.
source: 30 years care giving for someone with mental illness in one of the thousands of poor US counties.
5 years as social services volunteer
Speaking of suffering observations. Why do you assume most people who live in areas without available mental healthcare are aware of that?
> Practically every country in the world has some form of accessible mental health care.
The language there qualifies any country with a therapist. I think what you meant is that the vast bulk of the population, in all 195 countries (excepting a handful), has reliable, practical access to mental healthcare.
As I consider African populations and folks who live in economically disadvantaged South and Central American nations I find myself filling with skepticism over that claim.
ref: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=state+of+mental+healthcare+in+Afri...
ref: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=state+of+mental+healthcare+in+Sout...
Are we here to help a human in struggle or are we more interested to discuss the level of (mental) health care in nation state XYZ in detail?
I commented to hopefully help the OP in struggle; regardless of the nation state the OP is living in.
Wherever the OP lives, I am very sure that there is INITIAL help very close for free in terms of money; wherever the journey will end and however it will look like.
Talking to someone will help. We are all human beings.
A hotline call (where available) can avert an immediate crisis but is not able to address underlying challenges. Recovery needs extended time with mental healthcare professionals. All indications are that most of Earth's population doesn't have access to that. For them, the advice of "Just Go Get That Free Help" isn't helpful.
I'm not saying we shouldn't help. I'm saying that assuming they have access isn't helpful - unless we actually know they do.
To be helpful, we need to ask if they know of services in their area. If they don't know, we can offer to look if they're willing to share their general location. If we strike out (not unlikely), we can learn more about them and their region - see if some obscure solution can be unearthed.
It takes time to provide the help that folks actually need.
(note: Evidence that most of our 7.8 billion have reasonable access to usable mental healthcare is absolutely welcome).
Sorry if it's a bit of an odd recommendation, but in the next few hours/days, while you wait for your appointment or any other changes you're making, I can recommend reading through "Feeling Good" by David D. Burns MD. It's a book on cognitive behavioural therapy and it helped me tremendously to cope with, and eventually recover from severe depression. I recommend it because it offered some immediate short-term relief just from reading through it once. There are copies lying around on archive.org.
I wish for you to recover!
I think that folks who live in a healthcare-wealthy region or are healthcare-wealthy themselves don't understand that a sizable chunk of Americans have neither mental healthcare nor the resources to fund prolonged therapy out of pocket.
And free practical, usable, community mental health does exist - but - again, mostly in healthcare-wealthy regions. In most US counties, residents tend to lack access to reliable public mental healthcare.
Freelancing marketplaces can get you usable leads—there is junk that can be identified with practice, but there also are respectable customers (at least on Upwork, in my experience). Monitoring opportunities, diving into new subject domains and writing proposals is a different activity compared to just creating software, but it’s possible to switch contexts every now and then.
It could help if there’s someone you know whom you can cooperate with, perhaps on flatshare and/or consulting work, but IME the above can be feasible alone.
I can understand the difficulty of living with parents. In my case the nature of gig work (ups and downs, having to hustle plus the necessity to pay rent), change of scenery, distance from the old social circle of family and school acquaintances were factors that somehow correlated with me gaining the will to keep doing things without always feeling like there’s no point to it.
Life is a series of experiences, you may wake up one day and look back, saying "thank you" to yourself for not ending it then. It's important to know how to "travel through time" and realize that life is combination of good and bad. We need both good and bad in order to be able to perceive good. Also, there is some truth to saying "suicide is a crime against future self".
Prison is a stupid idea, will ruin possibilities in the future, you never want your past to drag you down. But traveling or becoming a monk is definitely a better solution, more interesting than being stuck in one place with a bunch of dudes (I'm assuming you're male). The kind of people who end up in jail is usually naturally not high IQ. If you're using HN, it's very likely you are not going to fit in there, feel even more lonely at very least.
Life is an adventure, it always ends for everybody no matter if you want that or not. Paradoxically, it's one of the reasons to enjoy it.
Being depressed is a symptom, not a cause. I always view it as a good thing. When I get depressed I start changing things in my life, big time. Depression is a result of one's life being a nightmare, and I rather be aware of that than not. Do you know of those people who don't feel any pain? It sounds cool at first, but they burn themselves all the time and cannot feel symptoms of developing diseases (e.g. abdominal pains). So it's good to be depressed, that way you know your life sucks.
I remember when I wanted my life to end, I had no money to eat food, nobody to talk to, no prospects in life. Instead of looking for help and losing the rest of respect I had for myself or going to a shelter, I ended up being homeless. I can tell you that I never felt happier and freer in my life than during that time. Quickly I managed to find a job and slept in the office for 7 months. While being homeless I showered at the gym; that made me work out every morning, sometimes twice a day. I truly felt alive, my life was my own. I looked back at my life a year ago and it really occurred to me how unhappy "normal" lifestyle is, and how shitty people generally are. I promised to build my life around what makes me happpy, not around other people or what's considered "normal" or "good".
Watch Into the Wild, the story of that person inspired me a lot.
Will leave you with two quotes:
"Through every dark night, there's a bright day after that."
"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes."
(That second one I always assumed to be corny and stupid, until learned how much negative impact idiots can make on you in life if you don't cut them off quickly).
You can try to live in a car/van, arrive to work earlier to use the facilities, use some coffeehouse wifi, etc... This is a bit of an adventure. It will also help to show your parents your commitment and level of distress.
Normaly job change helps. Sometimes you are to tied with the work issues it is just best to leave. In a new job there will be lower expectations, because you're starting, so it will feel good. And after it will give you a new perspective in life. And learn something new. Also you can possibly take a month off in between.
You can also try a career change, there are several no experience required, that are very good to take life slower a day at the time.
Also life is messy, with a lot of pressure and unrealistic expectations. And a lot of people, apparently living happy, are in a similar situation or worse. Maybe try to talk more with people around you, to get some more perspective. Even just talking somehow helps to reduce stress of situations.
You sound like you need to bottom out. Best of luck. There is little hope when it comes to this other than bottoming out when it comes to this level of self absorption, ask any person that indulged in this level of narcissism.
Don’t kill yourself just yet. Take all your money and light it on fire. Save a bit for alcohol and drugs. Blow every relationship you have and burn every bridge. Embarrass yourself in front of the world. Then come back and we’ll discuss suicide.
Pick a path of self destruction and bottom out as soon as possible so you can get back to normal.
Let’s get you to a point where suicide is an option, right now it isn’t. There are many things you can do before that point.
It’s an absolute disease to be this self absorbed. He/she just needs to play it out. This is the alternative - get your life to meet the objective criteria of ‘I can’t do this anymore’. ‘I am sad’ is not enough.
Drug addiction is a great benchmark of destitution. Let’s start that up.
Read about ACT Therapy if you can - where I first learned this advice - it gets you to internalise this strategy to have a better relationship with feelings: Accept your inner experience (and be in the moment) Choose a course of actions based on things you decided you value Take action
We can't change the way we feel, at least not reliably, which means that its best to "accept" feelings (there's a specific meaning of "accept", and doens't mean you have to "like" your feeling), and we can almost always direct our attention. In almost any situation you have the power to _temporarily_ focus on something, and you can just keep diverting your attention, it's like a super power.
Separate to ACT, I've found mantra's such as the following helpful for dealing with strong episodes of emotion: Let it come. Let it be. Let it go. [Exhale slowly]
A much simpler one for a strong episodes of anxiety/sadness/dysphoria: "There's nothing I need to do about this" [At which point I usually choose something to do or think which is important to me].
In saying all of the above, some of your issues may be situational (or not, could just be an internalized playbook of beliefs), which is where getting professional help comes in, to help you work that out.
Some practical steps you might take once you have a strategy for managing your mental health: Look for an alternative living arrangement, a different (or same) job or pursuit (if not for supporting yourself financially, it will open up opportunities for social interaction and engagement). Figure out what things you value, or have valued in the past if you are too depressed to connect with that; then let these form a compass point for you.
Becoming a monk will probably mean you have to face yourself head on and you won't have conventional support - do not isolate yourself. Whatever you do, choose something that has a good chance of being absorbing and deisolating.
> I’m considering either becoming a monk
Instead of "becoming", you could try to ask the temples, if they need help. I know people who go to temples, and they say, that there is always work to do. You would also get free veggie meals :)
Another option could be volunteer work on a farm, which I did. I attended a program, where you could help out families on farms for a week. They would give you shelter and food, and you would help them on their farm.
It tremendously help me out of my hole, and gave me a new perspective on life. I can expand on that, if you like. Just say so!
The brain fog will lift. It'll take awhile. Working at a minimum-wage job is surprisingly fun compared to software. Of if you can't do that, there's disability. You'll be able to come back once the fog lifts.