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Ask HN: Why don’t toasters have built in smoke detectors?

4 points by perilunar ↗ HN
crazygringo asked “Why don't microwave ovens have IR cameras to tell when food is done?” [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26405947], but I want to know why toasters don’t have a built in smoke detector that can shut off the power as soon as the toast starts to burn, preventing the kitchen smoke alarm from triggering? Seems simple, obvious and cheap to implement.

10 comments

[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 32.9 ms ] thread
farseer
Consumer electronics have thin margins, you don't add features to facilitate a small subset of customers for whom this may be a problem. A toaster almost always has a mechanical or electronic timer, enough to prevent burning.
perilunar
The only way to set the timer though is through trial and error, and inevitably your toast is either too raw or burnt. How much easier would it be to just turn off the power at the first hint of smoke? Perfect toast every time.

I've also worked in several workplaces that ban toasters in staff kitchens due to the cost of false fire alarms. Someone always burns the toast.

farseer
But now cigarette smokers can't use your toaster. Neither can grandma who likes smoked salmon for breakfast cooking on the stove nearby.
ohyeshedid
Until it keeps turning off, before properly toasting the bread, because it's burning some crumbs at the bottom.
happy_path
Maybe because of safety?

From [1]:

> An ICSD smoke detector is composed of a housing made of polyvinylchloride or poly-styrene plastic, a small electronic alarm horn, a printed circuit board with an assortment of electronic components, and a sensing chamber and reference chamber, each containing a pair of electrodes and the radioactive source material.

[1] http://www.madehow.com/Volume-2/Smoke-Detector.html#:~:text=....

perilunar
well you wouldn't need the plastic case if you built it into the toaster, nor the battery or horn. Just the PCB. Maybe a small fan to draw air into the detector. Newer smoke detectors don't have the radioactive source — they use photodiodes now.
giantg2
I believe heat (through air density) affects the accuracy of the smoke detectors. Even if you aren't fully burning the toast, I believe the heating process still produces some particles as the malliard reactions occur and small portions start to get a little black, like a rough edge. Even though it's not much, it would probably be enough to trip the sensor if it were an integral part of the toaster.
FiatLuxDave
I like this idea and I think it actually has a lot of potential. If you make a product like a power strip with an attached smoke sensor, which can be set to have an adjustable threshold like most toasters have, then it could be used with any toaster. This makes a big difference in terms of going to market, because instead of trying to compete with a zillion cheap models of toaster, your product becomes a single add-on feature.

In addition, the safety aspect of this could be a big advantage. If you get it UL certified etc., then it could be marketed as a fire prevention feature. A $10 toaster can cause a $100,000 fire without even drawing enough amps to pop a breaker. If you get some insurance company to give a discount on fire insurance for using one of these, and the product could pay for itself.

Just some thoughts, best of luck!

tacostakohashi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OfxlSG6q5Y

If you're going to automate toaster shutoff as you suggest, maybe do it when the toast is nicely done instead of waiting until it's almost on fire? Just a thought.

perilunar
My folks had one of those when I was a kid. Very clever design.

Adding a smoke detector is more for safety than to get the right toasting level, although personally I like my toast well done, which is just when the first wisp of smoke appears.