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Ask HN: What do you do to get your kids to programming?

50 points by vletal ↗ HN
At the beginning of the century there was a thriving web community doing basic HTML + CSS. If you were a "real programmer" you could convert your page to PHP and get into algorithms and databases. I know some peers who started like that, same as me. You could easily create a "professional level" web page at the time. Teenagers were building web pages for pocket money.

Nowadays, we have Medium, Twitter, Reddit, Facebook, ... Mostly noone needs a custom blog. What do kids these days to start with programming?

Since I got a kid I was wondering what I can do for him to show him the marvels of that world. Everything seems to be less accessible than anything from the time of my childhood. Including stuff made for that purpose, like RPis. What did you do to tech programming to your kids?

42 comments

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cyberbanjo
Automation for video games, did it for me. Hooked me on code and made me realize how unfulfilling grinding up MMOs was.
vletal
Interesting, since it's pretty difficult task to begin with. What do you do now?
vulcan01
Making mods for videogames (like Minecraft mods) might be more accessible/easier to start with.
muzani
This. I wrote scripts for grinding MUDs and as time went on, things like calculating odds of winning fights, highlighting resource prices for trade, or the right sequence of buttons to press for two groups doing PvP.
arkitaip
Creating game mods and levels is fun. Even something as basic as Roblox can teach a kid the basics of developing while they have lots of fun. Fortnite enables lots of level building too. Beyond that, you have Unreal Engine if you really want to go all in.
ilaksh
My brother has been doing a class in Roblox with some kids from his church. Said it was going pretty well. He had them make an obstacle course. They didn't have to code from scratch but they were able to follow directions to edit variables in the scripts according to desired behavior. Although when asked to do that apparently my nephew cheated and just copied the entire object my brother had already edited the script in.
nzmsv
You haven't mentioned how old your kid is. My kids are 6 and 4 years old and enjoy Osmo Awbie and Ozobot.
mavelikara
Our daughter started programing when she was 8 on MIT Scratch.
uglycoyote
I have two kids 10 and 12 who are absolutely hooked on scratch right now to the point where they spend hours a day. They are learning a lot. I think it is a great language for learning. It is limited in a lot of ways, but not having to type of deal with syntax errors is a big draw I think. Also the fact that it is has the integrated sprite editor and lots off basic built in which make them feel productive quickly.
feyman_r
My wife started a First Lego League team for 8+ year old kids to get them into building with Legos, and programming.

Some other things she uses to encourage programming in the group - bitsbox, code.org and Tynker (younger kids).

I have seen all kids participate and learn with a variety of these options over the past 12 months (remote works really well). I'll get more details from her later today if there's interest.

tcbawo
It sounds like you're asking more about getting into practical paid side-jobs than getting basic skills and interest level. Things have kind of gone the other direction with parents willing to pay to someone else to teach their kids some of these skills (coding gyms, etc.), although I don't have any experience with that. Maybe getting involved with something they are passionate about, like mods for video games or certain open source projects might be a good way to go (w/ Patreon). Or, they could do some volunteer work for local businesses and work their way up to billing. I know a lot of them are keen on reducing the overhead of online ordering/delivery systems.

For teaching basic logic to kids/teens, I found this game really enjoyable, especially since it's tangible and offline: https://www.turingtumble.com/

guilhas
I did not know what programming was until I was 18yo, and I am now definetly above average. Liked legos, and how things worked. My dream job was construction, bricklayer.
joshxyz
Make them watch matrix movies lol
vulcan01
How old is your kid? If he's in middle school and has a bit of prior programming experience CS50 by Harvard (on edX) is a pretty engaging and thorough introduction to programming (it's how I got started...)
runawaybottle
You could try the old Asian parents way (seems to work). Just make it very clear there are no jobs outside of medical or technology, and that you’ll throw them out of the house if they dare major in something ridiculous.
pontifier
I showed my son (11) how he could right click on a web page to see under the hood a few months ago.

Tonight when he called me he asked if he could have an old Java coding book he found in the basement. Apparently he's been "Hacking" the school computers by editing the HTML on different web pages to add shrek IMG tags.

I talked him through installing notepad++ and the JRE, but also had him install python so he could try the REPL.

He was able to do a quick

>a=4

>b=8

>a+b

12

I'm super proud of him. My daughter (9) was also following along, got notepad++ installed and was apparently working on a HUGE code:)

I'm super proud of her too.

shireboy
We started with scratch, code.org, recently got an arduino kit with lots of electronics for ~30$ Glitch.com is good for learning “real” web.

I’d disagree it’s less accessible. I think it’s way more accessible than when I was a kid and had to copy the games out of the back of Amiga BASIC magazine. We have tons of free text and video content on how to learn just about any language, free IDEs, and easily downloaded platforms/compilers etc. if anything the problem is that it’s hard to choose.

anildash
Obviously a little biased since I work on it, but we're seeing a ton of folks who remember the old "view source" simplicity of the web bringing their kids to Glitch and getting them started with the same level of accessibility. It's real code, and real web, but as fun as when we were all doing stuff with Notepad + FTP. Not a big leap up from what they're already doing in Minecraft and Roblox.
anandrm
My kid 8, started with code.org which gives an idea of what coding is all about , then set him up with Python + Turtle package , which is a good start for kids as it has more graphics and get them started easily . There are few tutorials on youtube which make it better.
throwawayboise
Honestly, start by just asking him if he's interested. I got into programming on my own in the 1980s by playing with TRS-80s at school. Later I bought a TI-994a with paper route money. My parents certainly didn't disuade me, but didn't particularly push it either.

Kids have their own interests. You can support what they want to do or explore, but can't really make them interested in programming if they arent. There's no rule that says your kids will be interested in the same things you are.

Shared404
I got into it at varying levels at different times.

As a pretty young kid, I got into GameMaker, and got my first taste of programming logic.

In middle school, one of my grandparents bought me a Raspberry Pi, which got me into Linux and Python, neither of which I had a strong need for at that point in time, but which have both made quite a large impact on my life trajectory by now.

In highschool, I programmed my calculator (TI-83 ftw!) because I got tired of doing geometry homework.

My honest recommendation is to find out his interest (games for me), available mentorship (RasPi), or need (math for me), and then show how programming can help.

I should point out that I'm pretty young, probably closer to your son's age then your own. Maybe close to equidistant.

brudgers
I exposed them to it enough that they are able to make an informed choice about programming and computer science in early adulthood. That’s the better alternative to forcing it upon them.

I mean it’s your interest and that’s cool and all, but your child is not you and won’t be because they can’t be. Even if you became a programmer because your parents were programmers and you just followed in the family business...but if that were the case you probably wouldn’t be asking because you would have first hand experience.

It’s great to share your interest because sharing your interest means spending time with your child and that’s what your child wants and needs. And will even once they are into adulthood if you do things right.

But honestly, fishing is a better way to spend time together because both of you will remember it longer and more fondly than sitting at a screen.

And later you will be glad for the ways your child is not like you and the ways they are like you only better.

It goes fast but it’s a long time still. Not a sprint to be the top seventh grader.

Good luck.

cauliflower99
Agreed - I've seen a lot of popular HN blogs on passing on passions for gaming, programming, media creation. It's obviously great to pass on skills to our children (I have a daughter myself), but I know that the best memories I have of my childhood are all non-computer based. eg. fishing with my father, playing soccer with friends, playing music in the pub.

There will be plenty (too much) of time for screens in their adulthood. Teach them the joys of play while they are young.

tpmoney
Screens can be about play too. My dad took me fishing when I was a kid. While I remember those trips, when he came to visit recently I didn’t break out the fishing poles for us to enjoy. I set up the C64 emulator and dug out the old games we used to play together, and over many hours we learned neither one of us are as good at them as we used to be. I remember playing those games with him as a child much more fondly than any early morning fishing adventure.

What’s important is not what you’re spending time together on, but that you are spending time together at all and you’re both engaged in it.

brudgers
Fishing was a metaphor for together that's not about getting ahead...I mean that's why nobody has taken me to mean taking a child on an Alaska trawler during crab season.

When I played video games with them...first Lego Star Wars and later FIFA...it was distinct from my "getting your kids to program" attempts that involved Alice and Processing and Common Lisp and Boxed Knuth progressively...the last meaning they are fully equipped to get as deeply into programing as their interest and ability might take them.

I used fishing because as a new parent an older parent came into my office on their business and because part of my job was positive customer service taking time to chat was ok and the older parent learned I was I new parent and told me I would never regret time spent fishing together and because my spidy sense told me to trust them I did and they were correct.

Growing up in the south, I've known a lot of people who were recovering from fishing as something their parents tried "to do to get their kids to fish." There's a qualitative difference between an afternoon gone fishing and getting up early for a fishing trip I think.

That difference is whether the terms are mutual and the relationship equal. Whether the goal is the time together or ambition fulfillment.

dionidium
>I exposed them to it enough that they are able to make an informed choice about programming and computer science in early adulthood. That’s the better alternative to forcing it upon them.

I don't think my kids should necessarily be software engineers just as I don't care whether they choose writing as a vocation. But they don't get to choose if they learn to write. I think programming is increasingly like writing in this way.

monoideism
Bingo. My kids are of course free to choose whatever profession they wish.

But by the time they leave home, my kids will know how to write well, how to learn a foreign language, how to program, and math fundamentals (algebra, stats, basic calculus).

As such, they'll have the foundation to study whatever they want to in college.

Already well on their way there.

vletal
Such a great reply. It goes without saying that I do not intend to force programming upon my kids. It's more about me being worried that nowadays it's much harder for them to just start by themselves as I did.

When I was writing my first lines of code there was no distraction in form of social media apps and the technologies were pretty simple and accessible.

If you now aim to create a webpage which you say least resemble what you are used to seeing on the web, uploading an HTML to a popular free hosting sites is just not enough.

I would like my kids find their way to whatever they like to do. I am worried though that they will waste their time even worse than I did back in my days, because the web is more addictive and getting involved in creating it is much more difficult then ever before.

brudgers
All parents worry.

It will turn out ok.

The web is no longer dominated by amateurs and DIY projects.

But Youtube and TicTock and Facebook and Instagram are...not that those are what the kids are on much.

Creative opportunities abound and are more accessible than ever before...an iPhone shoots 4k stabilized video, has a linear editor, and GarageBand. Of course it can't compete with today's Hollywood. And that's how the web has become...except that we haven't had a century of people finding a non-corporate aesthetic for web content....we haven't had a century to develop a cultural eye for non-professional websites in the way we have for moving images.

busterarm
the key takeaway here is that programming is a means to an end to accomplish a goal.

Figure out what kind of goals your kids have and how programming can get them there. Then show them.

tranced
Hi there!

Sorry for the self plug. I grew up on Neopets and MySpace and I have been teaching CS for years under the guise of introducing retro web back to today's kids.

I usually teach students from 10-15 but I mainly hope that they feel empowered to tackle anything even if it's not programming(since programming, in its essence, is all about debugging/building processes).

I'm lucky that I'm able to teach on a YC startup called Outschool.

Check me out here: https://outschool.com/classes/hacking-web-games-an-introduct...

Also, if you see this and sign up, just private message me on Outschool and I'll give you 25% off.

Anyways, I hope you at least get some ideas that might help by looking at my courses(though there are a few great ideas in this thread too). :)

chendii
I used to work at the company which made this popular free app. You code simple drawings. It had a great response with children and non programmer adults https://art.kano.me/