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Ask HN: Where do you find potential customers to validate your idea / MVP?

273 points by showsover ↗ HN
Where do you find people to validate your idea / MVP and get feedback from? I've been building something over the past year that primarily scratches my own itch and I'm getting ready to use it myself but I was wondering how I could see if other people are interested in this as well.

I've read about landing pages and MVPs so that's kinda what I did: I've made something small, usable, that solves a single problem with myself as my user persona (i.e. scratching my own itch).

The problem I'm running into now is that I can't seem to gather any useful feedback and I don't know where to get that feedback, or how to get it. There are a few people registered on my site but none actually active enough for me to try and reach out to them.

How do you get feedback on your project / MVP without spamming HN or reddit in the hopes that one or two people leave a comment?

P.S. A fiverr clone for product owners or analysts might be what I'm looking for here.

113 comments

[ 4.8 ms ] story [ 165 ms ] thread
zhte415
I tend to listen to pain points of friends or even random internet comments and seek to fix that, then have an incentive to get others.

Nothing huge but provides a living and backup over 9/5 job.

Main problem of asking friends is feedback in the form of "this is super" but often not super constructive.

But if it solves two people's problem, then it likely solves more than two. And iterate on that. Which can go from payment to organisational stubbornness to recognise their pain.

[deleted]
(comment deleted)
mindcrime
Start with your personal social circle, and/or 1st level referrals from your personal social circle. It's what Steve Blank calls "Friendly First Contacts". If you can't figure out a way to get useful feedback / sign of a reason to move forward from this group, then pivot or give up.

The other option is "spend money to blast your thing to a wide audience and hope for the best." Buy Reddit ads, Facebook ads, LinkedIn ads, Google ads, whatever. The downside to this is: it costs money (potentially a lot) and doesn't generate necessarily generate quality feedback because the people you're targeting aren't invested in helping you.

Also: read The Four Steps to the Epiphany or The Startup Owner's Manual.

wiggumspiggums
+1 for 1st level referrals. But folks within your own social circle can be tricky because it might be hard to figure out their true opinion if your idea sucks. When a friend has sought my feedback, I find myself balancing between trying to be honest with being supportive and open-minded. I'm sure people have done the same to me.
mindcrime
Agreed. That's one reason the 1st level referrals are so valuable. They represent people where you have a nice solid, warm introduction, but yet they aren't your personal friends, and won't necessarily feel the need to lie to you to protect your feelings.

That said, I think part of the trick is to not just ask "do you think this idea sucks or not", but rather to ask probing questions that, in and of themselves, seem totally innocuous - but which will tell you if your idea has value or not. Figuring out how to that is part art / part science, and I can't claim to have completely mastered it myself either TBH. Still working on it...

cmdr2
This worked better for me too, so far. But it may depend on what the OP is working on. I'm in a similar situation as the OP, and asked people I know if they know anyone in the target or related fields. And then further asked those people if they knew anyone, at the end of the call. I'm still in the middle of this process right now, so let's see how it goes.

I don't ask if they think my product is a good idea. I ask questions about how they work, delve deep into the mundane details of their work, understand what the challenges are. Finally I make my own assessment of whether my product will truly be valuable to them. I do plan on pitching to some of them later, once I've a fairly good understanding of how my target users work.

Importantly, I was clear with everyone (including my friends) that I wasn't selling or pitching anything, and that my goal was to understand how the target users work. The product idea I have is just the context explained in the first 2-3 mins, the rest of the call is just listening and understanding their workflow. The conversations usually tend to be 30 mins to 1 hr.

+100 for 'Four Steps to the Epiphany'. All of what I did above was lifted straight from that book. I've been internalizing it for years, and still fail to follow it properly. It's an amazing book :)

mindcrime
I don't ask if they think my product is a good idea. I ask questions about how they work, delve deep into the mundane details of their work, understand what the challenges are. Finally I make my own assessment of whether my product will truly be valuable to them. I do plan on pitching to some of them later, once I've a fairly good understanding of how my target users work.

I feel like that's the right way to do it. Those initial early calls aren't "sales calls" per-se, but depending on what you learn, you may well circle back to those people and try to sell them something later in the process.

All of what I did above was lifted straight from that book. I've been internalizing it for years, and still fail to follow it properly.

Same here. I have followed parts of it pretty closely at times, but it's hard to discipline yourself to stick to that more patient, rigorous approach sometimes. Too often I've been guilty of falling back into the conceit of thinking "of course this is a good idea" and starting to build stuff just because I convinced myself. :-(

jareklupinski
advertise; once you have something you are ready to charge for, work with someone well-versed in sales and marketing to get your product's name out there in front of people who may pay for it
martin-adams
I'm going through this with the app I'm building in public. The things I've done that work well are:

1. Build in public—I'm using twitter heavily to share the journey, progress, etc. I've optimised my twitter profile to make it super clear what I'm doing. https://twitter.com/Martin_Adams

2. YouTube. I'm creating deep, genuinely helpful videos aimed directly at users who have a need and are searching for problem in the direct space my product fit in. I'm creating videos teaching how to use competitor products with an opportunity to introduce what I'm building. I don't think there's any platform as accessible to tap into active search results. Here's an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6qfrRVUOO8

3. Funnel people to join your mailing list. I'm using ConvertKit and now averaging about 5 people per day just from the above two actions. My record is two days with 19 people dropping their email in. I have 124 people on my email list who are now interested and relevant to my project due to the YouTube content. My landing page is here: https://join.flowtelic.com.

4. Reply to other people on HN, Reddit, etc and try to be genuinely helpful with an opportunity to introduce what you're doing. This reply is an example of that.

From there you can chat to people on Twitter and email your mailing list directly for feedback.

suyash
takes lot of courage to build in public, kudos!
jcadam
Yes, especially when you know its time to abandon a project because it's not getting any traction - after you've been telling everyone about it for months. Should keep in mind nobody else is going to think much about your failed project but you :)
stevenhuang
Looks like a great, well-polished note taking app.

Especially like the simple pricing and no vendor lock in.

Well done, might take this for a spin sometime.

https://obsidian.md

sebg
Huge books/blog posts have been written about this. Maybe let's start with your product area and/or what it solves for you and we can help you from there?
adav
Check out The Mom Test and find an audience to talk to first. Validate any idea long before you build an MVP. In my opinion it's two separate steps.

I must admit I've also fallen in your trap many times myself. It's too fun to just go ahead and build something sometimes without considering the best way to find those early users first.

vincentmarle
I wish this book wasn’t called the Mom Test, people I’ve recommended it to didn’t take it seriously because of that. But it’s definitely one of the best books ever written on problem validation.
adav
I had also previously dismissed it because of the stupid name (...and it should be Mum Test if anything...) but luckily my friend insisted that I read it.

I often skim the crib sheet on the last few pages to remind myself of the goodness within.

suyash
sounds like a cool mom, gonna check it out.
bbulkow
i once had a vc, during a pitch, who asked if i could sell to her mom. As it was database infrastructure, it seemed kinda wrong, but it turns out her mom owned a small business and was the primary tech buyer, and the mom was in the lobby because they were supposed to go to lunch. I didn't get interest from the firm but it was a heck of an experience.
senko
Seconding The Mom Test recommendations. Terrible name, incredible book - full of down to earth, actionable advice.

That said, the first step is finding your customers. If you can't find them to talk with them, how will you find them to sell to them?

shiado
Discord is actually great for having people test things. Search for a server related to what your idea focuses on and get random people to test and provide instant feedback.
arunsivadasan
+1 Discord community is quite under utilized. I recently posted on a Discord forum where my potential users hang out and it was a great experience.
blacktriangle
For us, it was trade shows. We did the math: what would we pay per person to have them take a look at our software, and how many people did we think we'd get to come by our booth at a show? I realize this can vary by industry though, in ours a standard booth is roughly $1000 which is far more affordable than most. We learned a ton and made contact with our first customers who ended up being vital in helping us refine our functionality.
sbayeta
This resonates a lot. What line of business are you in?
takinola
This is actually a very insightful question. You get them the same way you plan to get customers after you have built the product. If you do not have a way to get customers to test the idea, then you do not have a way to get customers after you build the product. The process of building an MVP includes the process of figuring out distribution.

That said, it depends a lot on what type of product you are building. If you are building a consumer product, then throw some money at digital ads and drive some traffic towards your idea. If people are signing up but not using it, that's feedback right there. They are intrigued enough to sign up but find it lacking in some way to stick around. Fix one thing and see if that changes anything. If it does, great. If not, fix something else. Hint on what to fix, think about user engagement in steps. Always fix the first possible step that you know is not working. When users start crossing that step then go to the next one. Repeat until IPO.

lovedswain
> The process of building an MVP includes the process of figuring out distribution.

As blindingly obvious as this is, I've never seen it put quite so concisely. Fantastic. I could've cut short so many bullshit discussions this way

nocommandline
>> The process of building an MVP includes the process of figuring out distribution. <<

Maybe I'm being picky here but I disagree a little bit with this. At the start, your MVP might just have been for you i.e. to scratch an itch you have and it is only later that you think about getting other people to use/pay for it. So maybe your above statement will (should??) apply if your MVP was targeted for the public

hnarn
Isn't an MVP, by definition, not just for you?
nocommandline
hmm, good point. I didn't look at it from that POV.

When I'm trying to scratch an itch, I try to get something 'rough' and then try to add the bells and whistles later on. Mentally, I always think of that 'rough' bit as 'my own MVP' i.e. what are the minimum features I need to build for this tool to solve my problem.

For example I needed a self hosted solution to convert svg images to png. I need a way to specify the image to be converted, code to convert it, and a place to store the output. My first build had a text field where I manually enter the path to the svg file I need to convert, and I hardcoded the output folder. I thought of that as my MVP. When I was sure the code was working and much later on when I had the time, I added a file picker to allow me pick the input file and another file picker for me to specify the output location.

hnarn
The "product" part of MVP refers to something you sell (rather, offer) in a market, and the "minimum viable" part refers to it being barebones but functional enough to be "sellable" and provide value, ie someone that isn't you is willing to go through the stated process to install and use it. So writing a tool that you use yourself without "customers" (used loosely) isn't in my mind an MVP, and neither is a product with no thought given to distribution.
bob33212
For anyone reading the above comment and thinking "Well maybe for your product, but my product is so great once people see it they will buy it"

You are setting yourself up for a hell of a sales problem.

jasondigitized
Never heard it put it that way either but it is so true. I am going to add key qualifier for any idea I have: “How difficult is it to talk to someone about it?”
harrisreynolds
I really like the insight about the feedback you are getting from crickets (no feedback) and the engagement progression.

Just fix the next step and start with the first step.

Repeat until IPO (Ha!!)

Great comment.

dahart
Very well said.

Will add that from experience, the suggestion of knocking down technical issues is so important it’s mandatory, and it does not stop once you get users, it will be required forever with a successful product. BUT! ... IMO it’s a very slow way to acquire users, and the engagement improvements are incremental at best, unless you are making sweeping changes or hit something viral (unlikely!!) or were missing something truly glaring.

I did a lot of testing between adding features, addressing bug fixes, and then random attention-getting marketing like blog posts that happen to mention cats or money or other things people care more about than software. There was no comparison to the amount of attention they got, the tangential posts got many, many more people in the door than the technical posts. The steady feature improvements are what will keep people there, while fluffy emotional blog posts are what will attract a lot of window shoppers. It’s better if the blog posts are relevant to your app and feature announcements, of course, but I’m saying you can get users faster without writing software. It’s just a hard problem and a delicate balance, and don’t get stuck thinking “if I build it they will come.” Some amount of marketing is needed. And don’t get stuck writing ads or blog posts either. Some amount of attention to the software is needed. Do as much of both as you can.

It’s very difficult to get users to talk, whether they like your app or not. Most of the time they don’t know enough to be able to articulate what they want or need, even though they can sense it. And the people that talk loudest aren’t often the most important to listen to, especially if they’re not paying for anything.

Good Luck!

marktangotango
> And don’t get stuck writing ads or blog posts either.

I felt this one.

ergocoder
> If you do not have a way to get customers to test the idea, then you do not have a way to get customers after you build the product.

I need to hear this. Wow, really well thought out sentence. It makes so much sense.

1_over_n
I would say ideally wherever they hangout. Figuring that out is a big part of the job, next is to find out how to engage with them. Going through that process will lead to a lot of learning. Figuring out a distribution channel for whatever you are doing is essential for getting to market and finding early users will inform that process. Read the mom test if you haven't already so you have a framework for how to speak to potential users.
suyash
this! if you are not the customer, it's going to be hard to build for them. You need to live, breathe like customer everyday. Hangout where they are.
jordank
I routinely recruit highly targeted people for 1-on-1 interviews via services like userinterviews.com to help validate concepts. These services take care of incentives and scheduling, making this process fairly painless.
montroser
We've found userinterviews.com to be fantastic for testing usability, and decent for product feedback. You can target people by experience and industry, and they are most often intelligent humans.
JamesBarney
For OP: What is your product and who is your target audience?

Generally ways you find users are

outbound: find potential users then call/email them.

Inbound: find out what your potential users are searching for

Community: find online communities where your potential users hang out

For other people besides poster who are earlier in this process. Figure out your marketing/sales/go to market strategy before you start coding.

showsover
My product is in the FIRE movement: tracking your net worth and figuring out how to get there. It's a simple webapp at the moment that tracks your investments and helps you guesstimate how much you need to save every month to achieve your goal. I'd appreciate any feedback about it! https://roadto.fi
JamesBarney
Then I think a community driven approach would be a good place to find potential users for feedback.

https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fire/

https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/

Also facebook.

Not to mention there are a ton of bloggers. Start emailing bloggers in this space and explain why your app is better than the rest.

showsover
I haven't thought at all about bloggers, that's a really good tip!

Unfortunately I'm one of those people without a fb account, so that's out of the question for me. Twitter is similar, I have no wish to make this all about me, but rather about the product itself.

With regards to reddit: I've been following those subreddits for a while now, but it's hard to justify to myself to spend that much time there to market my app, compared to using that time to improve it. That's something I'll have to find a balance for I guess.

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.

f6v
> without spamming HN or reddit

Do you customers spend time there? Then go ahead and ask for feedback.

> P.S. A fiverr clone for product owners or analysts might be what I'm looking for here.

Cold emails through LinkedIn? Or product owners and analysts your friend/former colleagues can introduce you to? Product meet-ups are a thing as well (most likely online). You might try talking to people and asking for feedback there. https://www.meetup.com/topics/product-owners/

> I'm getting ready to use it myself

If that's a fiverr clone, is it sort of marketplace?

showsover
They do spend time there, it's one of the only places that i know where FIRE enthousiasts hang out regularely.

I'm creating something to track your net worth so you can map out your road to FI. I'd appreciate any feedback if possible: https://roadto.fi

f6v
1. Where do you get the data from? Is it supposed to fetch it from my accounts somehow?

2. Why would I trust you with my data? I mean, do you have a bank-level security?

3. 3 "Create account" buttons seem a bit excessive, as you can see all 3 of them without scrolling.

f6v
And "Create an account" button shows "Login" tab instead of "Register" on Safari.
showsover
Thanks for the feedback, appreciate it!

1. The account fetching is not possible as of yet because the brokers i use personally don't have an api available. 2. I'm not sure what you expect me to reply here, of course I have no bank-level security but I am taking the possible precautions. 3. Thanks, might need to rethink that page a bit, perhaps add some more content.

jppope 

  - Go through your linkedin/twitter/instagram account. Find people who would be interested. Send them an email/message. 
  - Search online for thought leaders, industry people that work in that specific field. Could be as easy as a twitter search, it could be more complex like going through white papers and emailing researchers. 
  - There are websites where you can request all sorts of feed back including MVP feedback. Fiver has a section (https://www.fiverr.com/categories/programming-tech/user-testing-services), and there are niche sites https://www.usertesting.com/
  - Hacker News?
  - Reddit has subs dedicated to that sort of thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/websitefeedback/
  - Meetups. 2 different versions. 1) Prepare your elevator pitch and bring your phone 2) Message meetup founders and ask them where they would go for feedback, since they are thought leaders of sorts.
  - Dischord (mentioned elsewhere) 
  - Just start trying to sell it the way that you planned on marketing it (hopefully you've thought about your marketing plan)
AznHisoka
Twitter DMs are such a great resource. Go sign up for a tool like BuzzSumo (they got a free trial) and use their Twitter influencers search feature to find users that have a specific keyword in their bio. Then DM the ones that have DM public, and ask for their opinion. Or alternatively, just send them a regular message, without trying to spam.
peterwoerner
I have just started trying to cold email/linked in message people who have the relevant job titles on linked in. I just started yesterday so I can't tell you how its going yet. But I'm looking for people at companies large enough to have people dedicated to a specific subsets of mechanical engineering.
artembugara
You should search for potential customers/clients where they usually are.

I see many people advise Discord, LinkedIn, YouTube, etc. They're all right! But it works for them.

If your potential customers are devs, use Hacker News. However, HN won't work if your potential clients are non-devs.

The only right answer (in my opinion) is: "it depends"

tjpnz
I'm in a similar boat with the added difficulty of living in Japan and having a limited command of Japanese. My intended user base would be housewives.

I've got a few bilingual acquaintances I could demo the app to but don't want to risk not getting honest feedback. Does anyone have any additional points which might help?

arisAlexis
We are building a service where you can get design reviews especially for cross cultural situations like this. If you don't speak the language I doubt you would nail a design that Japanese housewives would relate to. Check it out if you want at https://borrowmind.io
Abishek_Muthian
I faced the same issue and in the end I had to create my own problem validation platform - needgap[1].

Problem, not startup idea because; IMO problems are tangible, it's something people have right now unlike a startup idea which materializes only when it solves the said problem and when enough people need it.

So, I created a platform which treats problems as first class citizen and new posts are strictly for problem statement. Startup ideas to solve those problems can be discussed in the comments along with existing solutions for the problem.

Potential customers search with their problem terms on search engines and so there's good chance they'll visit a needgap thread than a startup idea validation 'landing' page. I've been running needgap for nearly 2 years now and several projects have been created to solve the problems posted there.

I'm personally starting to get better understanding of the grammar of problems and startup ideas with needgap and hope to make it a even better validation platform with the help of the community.

[1] https://needgap.com

johnli
Shameless plug for the service we built to solve this for ourselves - https://www.pickfu.com

The MVP was to meant to replace asking randos at a coffee shop about your idea/design/etc. Over time we've added demographic targeting, follow-up questions, and other requested features. Nowadays online sellers and other creators use it like an online focus group to validate ideas and products.

Some other ideas for finding an audience for your MVP:

  - google the exact problem you're trying to solve, reach out to authors/bloggers who've written about it
  - online ads to your target demographic 
  - LinkedIn prospecting (if you have a target customer profile)
  - Subreddits of your target problem area
  - Start writing/tweeting about the problem space and engage the audience that follows
  - comments section of relevant YouTube videos
forgotmysn
for B2B/Enterprise, investors or board members can usually open some doors
allochthon
I have the same question as you. Two sources of potential feedback I've found, which are not spammy or unpleasant for people:

- Adding an update to an Indie Hacker product profile with a link to a blog post

- Adding a post to the "Share Your Startup" thread in r/startups, which has been a thread that is started on the first of each month [0]

But, in general, I have the same questions as you, so I don't imagine this will provide more than a small boost in feedback.

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/startups/?f=flair_name%3A%22Share%2...

granshaw
I'm not very experienced as a founder, but I put very low weight in audiences on sites like indie-hackers, r/startups, HN, product-hunt... it's a very specific kind of person who hang out there – mostly just tech and growth folks, and super-gung-ho-early-adopter types, who are a poor substitue for actual long-term customers

I would say FB groups, subreddits, meetups around your potential customers' industry are a much better start.

danenania
Betalist is good for this: https://betalist.com/

I'd also recommend spending the next 30 minutes putting together a very rough description and a mailing list sign up form, and then posting a comment in this thread with a link. Being on the front page of HN will get you hundreds to thousands of visitors, and it isn't easy, so don't miss the opportunity!

riku_iki
Such posts very rarely appear on front page, maybe 0.1% of them.