Agreed. I have eaten my fair share of more than strange stuff. Especially in my early teens. But that? No. Never.
This even beats my nutella bread with salami and pickles. And yes. I know. This is disgusting. Really, really disgusting. I don't know how I could ever have eaten such a thing.
haha, I live 10 meters away from “Bäckerei Frank”. It has moved just one block in a new location - but still it is in the same distance (this is not New York what I am talking about)... so how come
that this article is on the top of my news stream???
> Unlike American Wonder Bread, German bread is baked fresh and comes in a variety of flavors besides "white".
It probably goes without saying but packaged preservative-laden German bread also exists, as does fresh-baked American bread from bakeries. The popularity of each is just very different which is what makes the difference. Somewhat ironically, some bakeries in Europe now claim to use sourdough cultures from SF, and especially in the options available it seems like both countries have moved a bit closer to each other though they're definitely still quite different in this respect.
Are you referring to the lactic acid bacteria species Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis [1] that commonly occurs in sourdough? In that case: This species, while initially named after its historical occurence in sourdough bread around San Francisco, really occurs all over the world.
I'm also concerned about the decline in small, independent bakeries that bake fresh bread every night. We see a trend of many regional bakery chains taking over where bread is prepared in a factory, frozen, delivered to the bakery shops and then baked up again. Quality suffers a lot this way and it's become harder to find good bakeries now. The article also describes this phenomenon, but you can probably only read it between the lines if you know the background.
You actually can compute the quality suffering of a regional bakery.
All first-charge-products have to be done pre-delivery, which means - driving distance in hours to the place farthest away is the time point, by which all products have to be transport ready. Not everything can be baked simultaneously, so some products are stored in baskets pre-loading.
Now, you have a idea of the time period the central bakery starts producing, and how old the stuff is when you buy it. If you enter the bakery at 9 o clock, some brezen are already up to 6 h old for some branch-bakeries.
They try to counter that with frozen pretzels that are baked up in hot-air behind the counter-ovens, but those dry the baked goods too much, so they can only be eaten properly for 1-2h.
Its a dying job though, due to the long hours, low pay and bad time to work ( Workday starts around 0 o Clock and ends at 10 o clock).
Yes, exactly. And if I only buy some raw Brezel that has just been heated, I can also buy the frozen thing and define myself when I want to eat it by baking at home just in time.
If you happen to visit Nuremberg, make sure to stop by Brezen Kolb! This bakery specialized on Brezeln and you won't get other types of bread there. While they're sliced somewhat untypical for Germany, they're the best ones I've eaten so far.
Favorite school snack "Mohrenkopflaugen": a weird chocolate-coated puffy sugar blob (this thing: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schokokuss) squashed in a pretzel roll.
> In fact, the bread is so fresh that once you slice it, it's really only good for two or three days max until it starts to get stale.
If you put sliced bread in the freezer it stays fresh for a long time. I often get bread sliced at the bakery for convenience, put it in the freezer, and take out a couple of slices every evening for the next day.
I grew up in Stuttgart and good pretzels were easy to find. On the last couple trips I found that almost all the craft bakeries have closed up and most people buy stuff from the chain bakeries, still good quality but not like I remember. I'll check out Frank on my next visit, hopefully this summer.
At this point craft baking, at least here in Oregon, is miles ahead of Germany. Same goes for coffee and beer, times sure have changed.
One thing I still miss are the meat and cheese counters you can find everywhere in Germany and only in higher end stores here.
Could you explain how craft baking is miles ahead in Oregon?
I'm quite curious because I started baking at home recently. Just for fun, I tried comparing perceptions and expectations about what people consider "good bread" in different cultures.
Just to be clear what I'm talking about - for me personally, factors that make up good bread would be:
* Long proofing times and use of very little yeast in order to allow flavor to develop (as well as reducing FODMAPs)
* Use of grain types other than wheat, especially dinkel and rye, but also rare types such as Khorasan or emmer wheat
* Ideally (and if appropriate), using sourdough as a leavening agent
However, when I had a look at some American artisanal baking content - both recipes and videos - my impression was that it was very focused on (rather boring) wheat bread.
One particular recipe I found claimed to be a real rye bread, but it turned out that they meant only about 30% rye content [1], adding an excessive amount of molasses (in my opinion, sugar has no place in a bread) as well as an excessive amount of yeast with less than an hour of proofing time.
Chain bakeries and supermarket bread are on the rise in Germany as well, but I guess we all agree that their quality is limited in comparison to craft bakeries.
PS: I realize that my question above might come across as a little confrontational, but please let me assure you that it really is well-meant.
[1] I should mention that there's a very likely reason why they didn't go for 100% rye: Enzymes naturally occurring in rye cause problems during baking (resulting in soggy bread) if more than about 30% of the flour is rye, unless you are using sourdough. Judging from the recipe complexity, the author didn't want to burden their readers with that topic.
If you have a Masterclass subscription, they have a course on making sourdough bread (from the owner of a Parisian bread shop that has been making sourdough bread for some >100 years).
Hmm, that's a difficult question for me because I learnt using some books by a blogger called Lutz Geißler [1], but I'm afraid they're written in German and there's no translated version.
I haven't yet found any resources written in English that fulfill my personal checklist, but that's probably because I haven't looked hard enough.
My recommendations on what to look for:
1. This should be rather obvious, but nevertheless: Avoid bread baking machines. They are trading a lot of quality, customizability and enjoyment for a little convenience.
2. Avoid the temptation of recipes that promise fast results. As a rule of thumb: If the recipe calls for an entire or even multiple packages of yeast and proofing time is less than an hour, the recipe is trading all the flavor in exchange for fast results. Tiny amounts of yeast (seriously, 0.1g of fresh yeast is a common occurence) and proofing time measured in many hours or even days (in the fridge) are a requirement for good bread.
But don't worry if the proofing time is that long: You're not actually working during the proofing time - while proofing, the dough is working for you! With a little planning, most recipes can be integrated into the working day.
However, the recipes are not everything. The reason I personally like Geißler's approach to baking is that it embodies the rather scientific craft of baking: Essentially, you have a number of parameters (proofing time, dough temperature, flour composition) that all influence the final bread. Geißler explains the consequences of adjusting these parameters, which allows you to actually understand what's happening inside the dough. Ideally, you shouldn't blindly follow the recipe's instructions, but rather observe the actual progress of the dough and accordingly.
For example, imagine your recipe calls for 90 minutes of final rise time (after bulk fermentation and shaping) at 20-22 °C. However, your room temperature is significantly higher at the moment. Instead of waiting the full 90 minutes, you check on the dough after 60 minutes. Using the finger test (pressing a finger into the dough and checking how far it rebounds), you determine the dough is not yet ready and give it another ten minutes.
It is precisely this controllable, observable and empirical process that I like about bread baking.
The craft $ANYTHING scene is a bigger deal in the US, but you can get better beer, bread, or cheese at almost any decent shop in Germany. There is a lot of Americanized crap in the stores, but if you know enough to avoid that, the bar for what is acceptable quality is pronouncedly higher,
across the board.
In the US the standards are ... flexible, the patrons can be sold all sorts of myths bc they don’t know much to begin with, and you wind up with things like $9 slices of toast and all ‘craft’ beer coming in a 16oz can with a wacky sticker on it and tasting like pine tar. Everyone’s happy though bc they had to wait in line for these pleasures and had ample time to post online about what they were doing!
If you speak German there are a handful of fantastic documentaries about village bakeries and breweries produced by BR, including some cool stories about the next generation of those trades finding new markets. It’s hard to compete with the allure of the new, even when you’re making the best beer in the world the same way it’s been made for hundreds of years.
I'm not sure about rye, I think 100% rye might be a flavor lots of people don't like, so it's usually mixed in with wheat. Sourdough is everywhere here, although I have to admit a lot of it tastes too sour for me.
The other thing I suspect is happening is that the German guild system keeps experimenters from trying out new and unusual things since it's hard to even open a bakery without going through all the proper training. Here in the US the quality is much more variable but any hipster with a new idea can try out if people will like their products.
Now that you mention Tartine, I remember reading about them previously. The books are quite interesting.
Regarding sourdough sourness: Sourdough bread doesn't have to be very sour. Certain parameters influence the perceived sourness, and it is definitely possible to bake sourdough bread that is very mild and barely sour. Have a look at the classic Italian lievito madre (mother yeast) or French levain liquide - the former is used for panettone, a special sweet bread commonly eaten around christmas, the latter can be used for croissants.
I've baked a few sweet loaves that are only leavened using sourdough (with no added baker's yeast), yet they have essentially no discernable sourness.
i don't think it is guild rules per se, but market demands.
in the US a craft bakery is something uncommon and will stand out. in germany the same craft bakery has to compete with chain bakeries and supermarkets, and it's much harder for such a bakery to be noticed.
even some chain bakeries bake their own bread in the store, and are operated more like a franchise. so you could have a good baker hidden under a chain brand.
the quality difference between supermarkets, chain bakeries and individually owned bakeries is much smaller too. and people expect all the bakeries to have the same popular items.
in the US people will go to a craft bakery because they want to have something different that they can't get in the supermarket. whereas in germany people going to a bakery still expect to get the same bread that they eat every day and are less likely to seek out a specialist shop because the supermarket has most of the same items anyways.
My aunt lives in the Rotebühlstraße and one of the highlights of visiting her as a kid in the 1970s was buying pretzels at the bakery two blocks away. Twenty years later, the "bakery" was just a storefront and the actual baking happened at a central location elsewhere in the city.
Good man. Do you boil them in "Lauge"? That's always the tricky part where things can get soggy. And getting something with a high enough pH is sometimes a bit tricky.
“At this point craft baking, at least here in Oregon, is miles ahead of Germany. Same goes for coffee and beer, times sure have changed.”
I think Americans tend to overdo things and make them too fancy. German bakery items often tend to be very simple and straightforward. Americans tend to tweak the recipes and add more and more stuff which makes them worse in my view. The same happened with pizza. In Italy they are pretty light with a little cheese and a little sauce whereas in the US they often load them up with way too much stuff.
I would agree but then there's always that other American that says "Americans overdo it, try my bread made from only three ingredients."
As to pizza: American pizza is a totally different thing, good but not like Italian. However, you can find Italian style pizza like you describe in most US cities now, often made with imported mozzarella and tomatoes.
"Clean Label" is actually a massive trend now in food production because people are being told that fewer ingredients are better and if you can't pronounce it it's probably bad for you."
My favorite bakery treats are Franzbrötchen from Butter Lindner. They are a deli bakery chain, and I'm sure that in Hamburg you can find a local bakery that makes better ones, but they are oh so delicious.
Living in Berlin but coming from Bavaria this is one of the things I miss the most.
Brezeln
They were the first thing I bought when I had to go to the south of Germany for projects. There are some good bakeries (for bread) in Berlin too but they’re expensive and sparse. Good Brezeln are hard to come by.
I remember being on holiday at the German coast as a kid, craving for a Brezel. I was shocked that the bakeries there didn't sell them (at least in the 90ies). To me, a bakery was basically a Brezel-selling store with some additional stuff for adults (most bakeries here have a stylized Brezel in their logo). My 2 year old daughter calls bakeries "Brezel".
But, as someone from the Stuttgart area, I would argue that a good Brezel is also hard to find in Bavaria ;)
I thought the pretzels at Prater Biergarten in Prenzlauer Berg were pretty good. There's also a Hofpfisterei in Mitte although I don't know their reputation.
As a German, I think this is a myth. Black bread/pumpernickel are only to be found in some regions of Germany, and even there, it’s not very popular among people younger than retirement age.
I also think it's a myth and more popular because of its name than because of actual consumption. There's just such a wide range of whole-grain, Mehrkorn (sorry, no idea how to translate that) and white bread that's different across all bakeries that it's hard to find a single best-selling type of bread.
I live in the Hamburg area, and none of the local bakeries is offering black bread. It‘s common in northern Frisia, and eventually some areas in Schleswig-Holstein.
Actually, I think you are wrong. I mean, it depends on what you call a local bakery and what exactly you would define as black bread (I use a very loose definition), but to my knowledge most bakeries offer some kind of black bread and every super market has it (often not fresh).
Sure, the assortment of wheat based breads is larger and very small shops might not have it at all, but overall it is pretty common (the two bakeries within a 100m radius of my place both have it). However, if you are looking for top quality black bread you might be out of luck with your closest bakery, but should find a shop within a few kilometers. Just to give one example:
A little tangential, but one of my favorite memories visiting Helsinki was the bread table at the Nokia lunch room. Must have been 25 different breads of an incredible variety of colors, textures and densities. I love breads and I remember just standing there slack-jawed trying to decide which to start with...
One subtle difference/fact: Brezeln are different between Bavaria (southeast) and Schwaben (southwest) - soft Brezeln are common in Schwaben, whereas Bavaria mostly has the salty hard stuff that was the parent of the salty hard stuff you can buy as a specialty in the US.
Ok, I've lived in Schwaben but only ever visited Bavaria, and never ate Pretzels in the US. So Bavarian Brezeln are not completely hard and dry but they're definitely less squishy and soft than Swabian ones.
Even in small towns in Germany, the neighborhood bakery is being replaced by in-store bakeries for Aldi, Lidl, etc. The variety, quality and freshness is still better than that in the generic US sense, but it has changed over the last 20 years. Much like many major cities mostly seem the same these days because all the chains and brands are there.
66 comments
[ 0.23 ms ] story [ 118 ms ] threadA Bretzel with Nutella, this is disgusting.
This even beats my nutella bread with salami and pickles. And yes. I know. This is disgusting. Really, really disgusting. I don't know how I could ever have eaten such a thing.
It probably goes without saying but packaged preservative-laden German bread also exists, as does fresh-baked American bread from bakeries. The popularity of each is just very different which is what makes the difference. Somewhat ironically, some bakeries in Europe now claim to use sourdough cultures from SF, and especially in the options available it seems like both countries have moved a bit closer to each other though they're definitely still quite different in this respect.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactobacillus_sanfranciscensis
Now, you have a idea of the time period the central bakery starts producing, and how old the stuff is when you buy it. If you enter the bakery at 9 o clock, some brezen are already up to 6 h old for some branch-bakeries.
They try to counter that with frozen pretzels that are baked up in hot-air behind the counter-ovens, but those dry the baked goods too much, so they can only be eaten properly for 1-2h.
Its a dying job though, due to the long hours, low pay and bad time to work ( Workday starts around 0 o Clock and ends at 10 o clock).
https://brezen-kolb.de/lecker/sortiment.html
If you put sliced bread in the freezer it stays fresh for a long time. I often get bread sliced at the bakery for convenience, put it in the freezer, and take out a couple of slices every evening for the next day.
At this point craft baking, at least here in Oregon, is miles ahead of Germany. Same goes for coffee and beer, times sure have changed.
One thing I still miss are the meat and cheese counters you can find everywhere in Germany and only in higher end stores here.
I'm quite curious because I started baking at home recently. Just for fun, I tried comparing perceptions and expectations about what people consider "good bread" in different cultures.
Just to be clear what I'm talking about - for me personally, factors that make up good bread would be:
* Long proofing times and use of very little yeast in order to allow flavor to develop (as well as reducing FODMAPs)
* Use of grain types other than wheat, especially dinkel and rye, but also rare types such as Khorasan or emmer wheat
* Ideally (and if appropriate), using sourdough as a leavening agent
However, when I had a look at some American artisanal baking content - both recipes and videos - my impression was that it was very focused on (rather boring) wheat bread. One particular recipe I found claimed to be a real rye bread, but it turned out that they meant only about 30% rye content [1], adding an excessive amount of molasses (in my opinion, sugar has no place in a bread) as well as an excessive amount of yeast with less than an hour of proofing time.
Chain bakeries and supermarket bread are on the rise in Germany as well, but I guess we all agree that their quality is limited in comparison to craft bakeries.
PS: I realize that my question above might come across as a little confrontational, but please let me assure you that it really is well-meant.
[1] I should mention that there's a very likely reason why they didn't go for 100% rye: Enzymes naturally occurring in rye cause problems during baking (resulting in soggy bread) if more than about 30% of the flour is rye, unless you are using sourdough. Judging from the recipe complexity, the author didn't want to burden their readers with that topic.
Or Joshua Weissman has you covered https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJpIzr2sCDE
My recommendations on what to look for:
1. This should be rather obvious, but nevertheless: Avoid bread baking machines. They are trading a lot of quality, customizability and enjoyment for a little convenience.
2. Avoid the temptation of recipes that promise fast results. As a rule of thumb: If the recipe calls for an entire or even multiple packages of yeast and proofing time is less than an hour, the recipe is trading all the flavor in exchange for fast results. Tiny amounts of yeast (seriously, 0.1g of fresh yeast is a common occurence) and proofing time measured in many hours or even days (in the fridge) are a requirement for good bread.
But don't worry if the proofing time is that long: You're not actually working during the proofing time - while proofing, the dough is working for you! With a little planning, most recipes can be integrated into the working day.
However, the recipes are not everything. The reason I personally like Geißler's approach to baking is that it embodies the rather scientific craft of baking: Essentially, you have a number of parameters (proofing time, dough temperature, flour composition) that all influence the final bread. Geißler explains the consequences of adjusting these parameters, which allows you to actually understand what's happening inside the dough. Ideally, you shouldn't blindly follow the recipe's instructions, but rather observe the actual progress of the dough and accordingly.
For example, imagine your recipe calls for 90 minutes of final rise time (after bulk fermentation and shaping) at 20-22 °C. However, your room temperature is significantly higher at the moment. Instead of waiting the full 90 minutes, you check on the dough after 60 minutes. Using the finger test (pressing a finger into the dough and checking how far it rebounds), you determine the dough is not yet ready and give it another ten minutes.
It is precisely this controllable, observable and empirical process that I like about bread baking.
[1] https://www.ploetzblog.de/
https://www.amazon.com/Tartine-Bread-Chad-Robertson/dp/08118...
https://www.amazon.com/Italian-Baker-Revised-Countryside-Its...
In the US the standards are ... flexible, the patrons can be sold all sorts of myths bc they don’t know much to begin with, and you wind up with things like $9 slices of toast and all ‘craft’ beer coming in a 16oz can with a wacky sticker on it and tasting like pine tar. Everyone’s happy though bc they had to wait in line for these pleasures and had ample time to post online about what they were doing!
If you speak German there are a handful of fantastic documentaries about village bakeries and breweries produced by BR, including some cool stories about the next generation of those trades finding new markets. It’s hard to compete with the allure of the new, even when you’re making the best beer in the world the same way it’s been made for hundreds of years.
I'm not sure about rye, I think 100% rye might be a flavor lots of people don't like, so it's usually mixed in with wheat. Sourdough is everywhere here, although I have to admit a lot of it tastes too sour for me.
The other thing I suspect is happening is that the German guild system keeps experimenters from trying out new and unusual things since it's hard to even open a bakery without going through all the proper training. Here in the US the quality is much more variable but any hipster with a new idea can try out if people will like their products.
Regarding sourdough sourness: Sourdough bread doesn't have to be very sour. Certain parameters influence the perceived sourness, and it is definitely possible to bake sourdough bread that is very mild and barely sour. Have a look at the classic Italian lievito madre (mother yeast) or French levain liquide - the former is used for panettone, a special sweet bread commonly eaten around christmas, the latter can be used for croissants.
I've baked a few sweet loaves that are only leavened using sourdough (with no added baker's yeast), yet they have essentially no discernable sourness.
I agree regarding the guild system.
in the US a craft bakery is something uncommon and will stand out. in germany the same craft bakery has to compete with chain bakeries and supermarkets, and it's much harder for such a bakery to be noticed.
even some chain bakeries bake their own bread in the store, and are operated more like a franchise. so you could have a good baker hidden under a chain brand.
the quality difference between supermarkets, chain bakeries and individually owned bakeries is much smaller too. and people expect all the bakeries to have the same popular items.
in the US people will go to a craft bakery because they want to have something different that they can't get in the supermarket. whereas in germany people going to a bakery still expect to get the same bread that they eat every day and are less likely to seek out a specialist shop because the supermarket has most of the same items anyways.
I think Americans tend to overdo things and make them too fancy. German bakery items often tend to be very simple and straightforward. Americans tend to tweak the recipes and add more and more stuff which makes them worse in my view. The same happened with pizza. In Italy they are pretty light with a little cheese and a little sauce whereas in the US they often load them up with way too much stuff.
As to pizza: American pizza is a totally different thing, good but not like Italian. However, you can find Italian style pizza like you describe in most US cities now, often made with imported mozzarella and tomatoes.
"Clean Label" is actually a massive trend now in food production because people are being told that fewer ingredients are better and if you can't pronounce it it's probably bad for you."
Brezeln
They were the first thing I bought when I had to go to the south of Germany for projects. There are some good bakeries (for bread) in Berlin too but they’re expensive and sparse. Good Brezeln are hard to come by.
But, as someone from the Stuttgart area, I would argue that a good Brezel is also hard to find in Bavaria ;)
Bread from Zeit für Brot is available at Alnatura and Denns branches and the Gorillas delivery service.
- https://www.omas-schwarzbrot.de/media/image/9e/b2/d2/Veggie-...
- https://images.eatsmarter.de/sites/default/files/styles/face...
Pumpernickel is more of a northern thing. Brezeln are mostly a southern thing. There are plenty more (and very different) things in-between too.
The common theme is bread in all forms and shapes you can think of.
you can still find it in the south of germany and in austria, but there it is usually not freshly baked but sliced and packaged.
Sure, the assortment of wheat based breads is larger and very small shops might not have it at all, but overall it is pretty common (the two bakeries within a 100m radius of my place both have it). However, if you are looking for top quality black bread you might be out of luck with your closest bakery, but should find a shop within a few kilometers. Just to give one example:
'Bäckerei Junge' is one of the common bakeries: https://www.jb.de/geschaeftefinder/
And one of their high quality black breads is the 'Kerne & Saaten': https://www.jb.de/produktfinder/aus/hamburg/in/brot/produkt/...
This is the idea, but doesn't do justice:
https://i0.wp.com/inspiringkitchen.com/wp-content/uploads/20...
I miss travel and a good Bretzen.