However, I think that every company has the potential to suck you into the customer service black hole. In such cases, it's a matter of persistence (which this guy definitely had in spades) and a bit of luck finding that customer service rep that cares enough and can actually do something about your problem.
Now that the problem is fixed --albeit very late-- continue to let them know how dissatisfied you are. I'd be shocked if they didn't care and felt the need to do something extra.
I don't want to say tatsuke95 is wrong, but I don't see this the same way. I'd say every company has the potential to make the customer service experience pleasant and gratifying while remaining fair to all involved. I don't think a customer should have to be this persistent. Like the author, I'm all for turning a cheek, but at a certain point I won't continue to purchase from a company. A little frustration is one thing. Months and months of it is another. Had this been my experience, I imagine I'd be done with HTC.
I've had my fair share of rotten hardware so I understand what a hassle it can be when it craps out. That said, why didn't you just request a refund, and get a new phone? It seems that'd be much easier than playing customer service chicken with a bunch of people who seem in desperate need of retraining.
I bought the phone with a Wirefly deal... which I assumed would be an even more difficult customer service experience. I won't make that mistake again. The "deal" turned out to be almost nothing as I got hit with an activation charge typically waived when you buy direct from Sprint.
The person sure has incredible persistence almost to the point of seeming naive. My advice would be to simply recognize that you've been screwed, shake your fist at them, complain in some highly visible forum (here in hacker news, yelp, blog post) and never use them again. Isn't his time a lot more valuable than this? Sometimes companies just suck.
Thanks, and yes it is valuable. In fact my stealth startups is in private testing atm!
But as you say I'm persistent. And I have a sort of sense of duty to bring attention to people that fall through the cracks. Obviously almost ludicrous in this context, but something I practice in my political day job(s).
Agree, if looked from a different perspective, you seem to be providing a public service by thoroughly exposing problems with HTC. That is certainly very valuable as a whole.
Also, if you look at their twitter stream, you'll see that tons of HTC users have phones that crash. The crashing phones are all different models too, so it seems like it's a reoccurring problem that nobody has bother to fix. Maybe HTC just builds crappy phones.
HTC's replies to the users having problems are not very reassuring. They just ask the user to contact htc.com/support and explain the issue.
I mentioned replacing the SD card in the notes on the youtube video. I didn't want to overly bore the reader with the troubleshooting steps, but I believe I listed everything in the youtube video notes.
Also, I'm using the "old" SD card and battery from the defective phone in the new phone without incident.
That's interesting. I'm an electrical engineer by training and I'm surprised that when they replaced the 'main' board and the display the first time that didn't manage to replace all of the active components in the phone. Since passive components are rarely affected (like this) by heat (they change value slightly but that is part of the spec) getting a 'refurb' back with new active components was the most probable fix.
Too bad we don't have the HTC diagnostics on this problem as well. While I feel for you and your poor customer service, no doubt somewhere buried in the bowels of the company there is some guy or gal who has to figure out the root cause and get them to change the phone.
Yeah, I was surprised as well. As integrated as everything I would think replacing the main board would replace every component in the chain that could cause the problem.
I'm very curious about the diagnostics as well, I'll update the post with any additional information I get.
I dropped my phone, yes a fall of two feet onto fluffy carpet is 'dropping' but really come on! Later on when I looked the screen was blank.
Called HTC support and the first question I was asked mere seconds after calling was "Did you drop it?" so me being an honest person said yes. Apparently that's bad being honest and in this situation it meant any damage was my fault no matter what it was. The phone was still under warranty.
I argued with them for a month it was under warranty and the phone can't be so delicate that dropping it like I did caused the problem. The stalemate ended when HTC threatened to send it back to me charging me a fee for looking at the phone. I said fix it since it didn't make sense having a six month old $600 phone and not be able to use it!
There was absolutely no effort to help you it's just by the book you are wrong, it's all your fault no chance, warranty be damned.
Then after they repaired it they asked me to complete a "how did we do" survey and I ripped them a new arsehole I let them know exactly how I felt about their service. Then the calls started coming wanted to talk about the incident but it didn't involve me getting my money back. They called everyday and I know it was HTC because the first call I answered which was an HTC representative and all the others which I didn't answer were very odd no name, no number calls - I never saw such a thing.
Anyway I've owned cellphones since 1996 and this Google Nexus One/HTC Passion crap is the worst phone I have ever owned and the HTC service is just as bad.
Oh and the phone is still not fixed it's acting weird.
Damn man, that sucks. I'm obsessively careful with my phone/comps because of that very reason. But no matter how careful they still fall occasionally. Falling in a manner you described shouldn't break a phone, it's just not realistic that that sort of jostling won't happen through normal use.
Good for you for at least giving them some negative feedback.
Interestingly enough, I dropped my iPhone 4 two feet onto a HARD surface. The backplate shattered.
Virgin Mobile stonewalled me the whole time, told me to take to to Apple. There being an Apple store in the same mall as the Virgin kiosk, I did.
The Genius at the Apple store listened carefully to my complaint, took my phone off to consult with some folks in the back room, and came back with a brand-new one. Told me that it shouldn't have happened and here's a replacement, but be more careful because they're not gonna replace it like that again.
Now, I found out later that replacing the backplate is hella-cheap ($15 delivered from cnn.cn for example), but the fact that Apple would just straight-up listen to me, believe me, and replace the phone in-store like that?
I'm not a Mac fanboy (I'm the only Windows user in a Mac office), but I'm an Apple fanboy, and this is why.
>Virgin Mobile stonewalled me the whole time, told me to take to to Apple.
That's because the physical phone is between you and the manufacturer. That includes the warranty, unless you purchased special insurance through Virgin. I wouldn't expect the carrier to provide you with a new phone. This is all in your contract.
That said, I think the expectation and problems like yours are rampant enough that most carriers are in fact offering some kind of "no hassle replacement" insurance for the handset. As the front line in the cell phone business, the carriers hear it from the customers in cases like these.
I wonder if something like a squaretrade warranty helps create an abstraction layer between you and the manufacturer in situations like these. (yes it does cost extra though)
That's my understanding of their process. Though their business model has advantages of scale similar to other forms of insurance, I really doubt if it's enough to over come overhead with electronics. I'd bet their business model in more complicated though, they must be extracting value somewhere else. Unless the extended manufacturer warranties are hugely profitable and that susceptible to undercutting.
This was exactly the same experience[1] I had with HTC back when I got the first Nexus One (hardware defect). A year later I got a myTouch 4G, again rampant hardware issues with the screen.
I plan to honor my initial promise of never trying another HTcC device, but I get weak in the knees from high end tech and they seem to be leading the android race the most aggressively right now,
My knowledge might be expired, but what HTC phone currently holds the performance/tech crown? I thought Samsung's Galaxy SII is on the top now and soon to be released Google Nexus S 4G (made by Samsung, afaik). I own HTC myself currently.
The Nexus S is out already -- and its tech specs weren't nothing out of the ordinary IIRC. Plus (and this is the whole point) it's not a great phone if you don't intend to customize it. That is, unlike HTC Sense and whatever the Samsung equiv is, this is bare bare bones Android 2.3.
Honestly, the upcoming HTC Evo 3D looks smashing. At first I groaned. I mean... 3D?!?! WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!! And i still think the whole "record your own 3D HD videos" is absurd.
But the rest of the way it uses 3D, and the new HTC Sense (on top of 2.3) is just reallllly cool. And with 1.2ghz dual core, it's a beast.
Yes, that's what I meant. Bah, they start out simple, then duct tape words and it gets messy.. HTC Desire -> HTC Desire Z, HTC Desire S, HTC Desire HD, Samsung Galaxy and all of it's variations etc.
That's actually happened to me — not-in-store-reproducable home button issues on iPhone 4 — twice now, and I've gotten a brand new phone in 5 minutes every time. Definitely agree,
+1 for Apple, this is why I insist on buying all hardware from them.
A couple of years back my MacBook Pro started having bad graphics artifact problems compounded by overheating - it looked like the graphics chip was going to bite it any day. I called Apple, and I shit you not, within twenty-five minutes of picking up the phone, I had received authorization to get it replaced. Not only that, they were going to replace my 2 year-old non-unibody MBP with one of the (at the time) brand-spankin' new unibodies.
Since the MBP was pretty heavily customized, I couldn't go get it swapped at an Apple Store, they wanted me to send it in. When I balked about the downtime, they simply shipped the replacement machine out to me and let me return the old one once I got it.
Now that's customer service.
And before someone makes the argument that Apple sells extremely high-margin items and thus can afford good customer service... HTC sells the same type of product at the same price points. Not only that, I've consistently gotten great customer service from Amazon, who is decidedly a very low margin business.
before someone makes the argument that Apple sells extremely high-margin items and thus can afford good customer service... HTC sells the same type of product at the same price points.
HTC sells similarly capable products at lower price points and with a less deluxe finish. I know because I saved hundreds of pounds by going for an HTC desire instead of an iphone. But don't take my word for it, It's a well known fact that apple's profit margins dwarf those of other manufacturers.
My story's a little different, but equally impressive.
I originally purchased my iPhone ~2 years ago. After about a year of abuse (certainly not the fault of the manufacturer), I had a phone with a smashed and no longer functional screen, microphone, wifi issues, etc. etc. Even the mute button no longer functioned.
Eventually I went into an Apple store, intending to purchase a new iPhone 4 (~$1,000USD here without subsidizing). The sales guy asked why I needed a new phone - had I used an iPhone before? I explained what had happened and showed him my shriveled hardware.
He disappeared out back and returned with two boxes. One contained a phone identical to my own - a white 32GB 3GS. The other had a brand new iPhone 4. He explained to me clearly and objectively that while he was happy to sell me a new phone, he could also replace my current phone for a quarter of the price. He explained that Apple was happy to do this as this was roughly similar to their cost price, and that some of the phone itself is salvageable (ie for precious metals).
I loved that they presented my actual options to me in a no-bs way. I loved that they wanted to make sure I wasn't spending an extra ~750USD on something I didn't need.
Both Apple and HTC clearly want to retain their customers for the long-haul. Sadly, it seems HTC are yet to understand it takes work to do so.
I had the exact same experience at an Apple Store two days ago. Brilliant service -- though I do wish they'd think of a better way to deal with a faulty button contact than junking the whole device.
Contrast to my Asus netbook, for which the power adapter pin fell apart after a few weeks' use. I called the support line, who more-or-less accused me of deliberately breaking it myself and said I'd have to send everything back, netbook (with my data on) included, and they'd see whether or not to charge me. Cheap device, cheap service.
That it pretty impressive. I've had good experience with apple as well, replacing an iPhone and CPU on my unibody MBP.
I've had other complaints with them, though. I bought my 17" MBP to run WinXP (all my software is winXP), which they advertise as being fully supported. Running it through Boot Camp works great, but Apple made some.. frustrating design decisions, such as not having a dedicated delete key, or publicly releasing downloadable driver like every other hardware manufacturer, and not updating them for that matter. I know I know, it's my own fault for wanted to run XP on a Mac, but since they advertise the capability I assumed they would do at least as good a job of it as an average XP-supporting comp manufacturer.
Just wanted to chime in here, since I happen to have a positive HTC customer service story.
I have a nexus one. I bought it when it still came with an OLED screen. The screen eventually started having color issues. I just dealt with a pinkish screen up until a few days before my warranty was up. I contacted them, and without a hassle they sent me a new nexus one, and had me ship back mine after it came (putting a 500 dollar hold on my credit card just in case I tried to keep both devices or something).
New device worked fine but the power button was a bit iffy. Contacted them again and told them my power button was really hard to press. This was AFTER my warranty period was up (but only a couple days after I received the new phone), but the customer service rep put me on hold for a bit, and my request was approved. I got sent another new phone, and I shipped off the "old" one once I received it (with the same credit card hold situation). New phone was perfect, and I still have it and working great.
I had to deal with having to do two phone wipes and all that, but I felt pretty good about the whole thing. Cost me nothing but the time to prepare the phones for shipping and getting the new phone back up to speed.
In general, when you get a warranty replacement that replacement itself has a 30 or 60 warranty, that can generally extend beyond your original warranty. I don't know the particulars from your case, but thats a pretty standard practice that I believe HTC follows as well.
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[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 95.2 ms ] threadHowever, I think that every company has the potential to suck you into the customer service black hole. In such cases, it's a matter of persistence (which this guy definitely had in spades) and a bit of luck finding that customer service rep that cares enough and can actually do something about your problem.
Now that the problem is fixed --albeit very late-- continue to let them know how dissatisfied you are. I'd be shocked if they didn't care and felt the need to do something extra.
But as you say I'm persistent. And I have a sort of sense of duty to bring attention to people that fall through the cracks. Obviously almost ludicrous in this context, but something I practice in my political day job(s).
Anyway, HTC generally listens (as evidenced by the recent locked bootloader controversy) so complain on the Internet and hold them accountable.
HTC's replies to the users having problems are not very reassuring. They just ask the user to contact htc.com/support and explain the issue.
1) If you have some sort of malware it will live in the SD card to keep from being killed by a factory reset.
2) If you have a bad SD card it can crash the system by doing something the system does not expect.
Also, I'm using the "old" SD card and battery from the defective phone in the new phone without incident.
Too bad we don't have the HTC diagnostics on this problem as well. While I feel for you and your poor customer service, no doubt somewhere buried in the bowels of the company there is some guy or gal who has to figure out the root cause and get them to change the phone.
I'm very curious about the diagnostics as well, I'll update the post with any additional information I get.
Called HTC support and the first question I was asked mere seconds after calling was "Did you drop it?" so me being an honest person said yes. Apparently that's bad being honest and in this situation it meant any damage was my fault no matter what it was. The phone was still under warranty.
I argued with them for a month it was under warranty and the phone can't be so delicate that dropping it like I did caused the problem. The stalemate ended when HTC threatened to send it back to me charging me a fee for looking at the phone. I said fix it since it didn't make sense having a six month old $600 phone and not be able to use it!
There was absolutely no effort to help you it's just by the book you are wrong, it's all your fault no chance, warranty be damned.
Then after they repaired it they asked me to complete a "how did we do" survey and I ripped them a new arsehole I let them know exactly how I felt about their service. Then the calls started coming wanted to talk about the incident but it didn't involve me getting my money back. They called everyday and I know it was HTC because the first call I answered which was an HTC representative and all the others which I didn't answer were very odd no name, no number calls - I never saw such a thing.
Anyway I've owned cellphones since 1996 and this Google Nexus One/HTC Passion crap is the worst phone I have ever owned and the HTC service is just as bad.
Oh and the phone is still not fixed it's acting weird.
Good for you for at least giving them some negative feedback.
I think they incentify the CS reps to avoid replacements or repairs with rewards. It shows in the service, it is like dealing with used car salesmen.
Virgin Mobile stonewalled me the whole time, told me to take to to Apple. There being an Apple store in the same mall as the Virgin kiosk, I did.
The Genius at the Apple store listened carefully to my complaint, took my phone off to consult with some folks in the back room, and came back with a brand-new one. Told me that it shouldn't have happened and here's a replacement, but be more careful because they're not gonna replace it like that again.
Now, I found out later that replacing the backplate is hella-cheap ($15 delivered from cnn.cn for example), but the fact that Apple would just straight-up listen to me, believe me, and replace the phone in-store like that?
I'm not a Mac fanboy (I'm the only Windows user in a Mac office), but I'm an Apple fanboy, and this is why.
That's because the physical phone is between you and the manufacturer. That includes the warranty, unless you purchased special insurance through Virgin. I wouldn't expect the carrier to provide you with a new phone. This is all in your contract.
That said, I think the expectation and problems like yours are rampant enough that most carriers are in fact offering some kind of "no hassle replacement" insurance for the handset. As the front line in the cell phone business, the carriers hear it from the customers in cases like these.
I plan to honor my initial promise of never trying another HTcC device, but I get weak in the knees from high end tech and they seem to be leading the android race the most aggressively right now,
Bah.
[1] http://www.thebuzzmedia.com/my-experience-with-htc-nexus-one...
Honestly, the upcoming HTC Evo 3D looks smashing. At first I groaned. I mean... 3D?!?! WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!! And i still think the whole "record your own 3D HD videos" is absurd.
But the rest of the way it uses 3D, and the new HTC Sense (on top of 2.3) is just reallllly cool. And with 1.2ghz dual core, it's a beast.
The parent said the Nexus S 4G, but I think they meant the rumored Nexus 4G (which isn't out yet). Here's some leaked specs: http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/15/exclusive-google-nexus-4g-deta...
I spent three minutes explaining to a guy at the Genius Bar how, despite the problem not repro'ing then, that it still did usually occur.
He went in back with it for five minutes and then came back to tell me they'd replace it free of charge.
Now, that's customer service.
A couple of years back my MacBook Pro started having bad graphics artifact problems compounded by overheating - it looked like the graphics chip was going to bite it any day. I called Apple, and I shit you not, within twenty-five minutes of picking up the phone, I had received authorization to get it replaced. Not only that, they were going to replace my 2 year-old non-unibody MBP with one of the (at the time) brand-spankin' new unibodies.
Since the MBP was pretty heavily customized, I couldn't go get it swapped at an Apple Store, they wanted me to send it in. When I balked about the downtime, they simply shipped the replacement machine out to me and let me return the old one once I got it.
Now that's customer service.
And before someone makes the argument that Apple sells extremely high-margin items and thus can afford good customer service... HTC sells the same type of product at the same price points. Not only that, I've consistently gotten great customer service from Amazon, who is decidedly a very low margin business.
HTC sells similarly capable products at lower price points and with a less deluxe finish. I know because I saved hundreds of pounds by going for an HTC desire instead of an iphone. But don't take my word for it, It's a well known fact that apple's profit margins dwarf those of other manufacturers.
I originally purchased my iPhone ~2 years ago. After about a year of abuse (certainly not the fault of the manufacturer), I had a phone with a smashed and no longer functional screen, microphone, wifi issues, etc. etc. Even the mute button no longer functioned.
Eventually I went into an Apple store, intending to purchase a new iPhone 4 (~$1,000USD here without subsidizing). The sales guy asked why I needed a new phone - had I used an iPhone before? I explained what had happened and showed him my shriveled hardware.
He disappeared out back and returned with two boxes. One contained a phone identical to my own - a white 32GB 3GS. The other had a brand new iPhone 4. He explained to me clearly and objectively that while he was happy to sell me a new phone, he could also replace my current phone for a quarter of the price. He explained that Apple was happy to do this as this was roughly similar to their cost price, and that some of the phone itself is salvageable (ie for precious metals).
I loved that they presented my actual options to me in a no-bs way. I loved that they wanted to make sure I wasn't spending an extra ~750USD on something I didn't need.
Both Apple and HTC clearly want to retain their customers for the long-haul. Sadly, it seems HTC are yet to understand it takes work to do so.
Contrast to my Asus netbook, for which the power adapter pin fell apart after a few weeks' use. I called the support line, who more-or-less accused me of deliberately breaking it myself and said I'd have to send everything back, netbook (with my data on) included, and they'd see whether or not to charge me. Cheap device, cheap service.
I've had other complaints with them, though. I bought my 17" MBP to run WinXP (all my software is winXP), which they advertise as being fully supported. Running it through Boot Camp works great, but Apple made some.. frustrating design decisions, such as not having a dedicated delete key, or publicly releasing downloadable driver like every other hardware manufacturer, and not updating them for that matter. I know I know, it's my own fault for wanted to run XP on a Mac, but since they advertise the capability I assumed they would do at least as good a job of it as an average XP-supporting comp manufacturer.
I have a nexus one. I bought it when it still came with an OLED screen. The screen eventually started having color issues. I just dealt with a pinkish screen up until a few days before my warranty was up. I contacted them, and without a hassle they sent me a new nexus one, and had me ship back mine after it came (putting a 500 dollar hold on my credit card just in case I tried to keep both devices or something).
New device worked fine but the power button was a bit iffy. Contacted them again and told them my power button was really hard to press. This was AFTER my warranty period was up (but only a couple days after I received the new phone), but the customer service rep put me on hold for a bit, and my request was approved. I got sent another new phone, and I shipped off the "old" one once I received it (with the same credit card hold situation). New phone was perfect, and I still have it and working great.
I had to deal with having to do two phone wipes and all that, but I felt pretty good about the whole thing. Cost me nothing but the time to prepare the phones for shipping and getting the new phone back up to speed.