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Ask YC: MacBook alternative?

15 points by ichverstehe ↗ HN
I might be replacing my MacBook with a regular x86 running Linux. It's simply beginning to piss me off that it breaks all the time. Crappy build quality.

But I really like the size–13.3"–and the look. A lot of regular laptops are basically freakin' bloated. Same price range as the regular MacBook.

Any alternatives? I know of the Vaios.

59 comments

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makecheck
I have heard many good things about ThinkPads, but never used them.

Having said that, I would only ever buy a MacBook. :)

cglee
I've only ever used Thinkpads (from T20 to T61) and now am on MBP. The TPs are definitely built sturdier. I used to carry them in a very flimsy backpack and all of the TPs weathered that fine. That being said, after I bought my MBP, I bought a nice backpack to protect it. And obviously, the difference is in the software.

I think the major diff between a TP and MBP is like the diff between a Jeep Wrangler and a Porsche. Just depends on what you need it for and your OS preferences.

mattmaroon
I'd say more like a Lexus and a Porsche. The Jeep Wrangler would be eMachines.
cglee
That would be a Geo Metro. I love Wranglers, but for entirely different reasons than I love Porsches.
icey
I have a macbook and a thinkpad (t61p). The thinkpad certainly feels much sturdier.

I use the macbook to screw around online, read mail, etc on occasion. But when I go to do some work, it's the thinkpad that comes with me.

That being said, I am primarily a mac user at home; but on a macpro, not a laptop.

eisokant
I would recommend the VAIOs. I am looking at the new Z series myself.
gaius
I have friends at Sony. Sony issues Thinkpads to its own staff. I would be very surprised if Apple did the same.
eisokant
You are kidding me, any reason on why?
gaius
No-one (that I know) knows for sure, it could simply be that management thinks that all the fancy multimedia stuff is a distraction from Real Work. Even so, it doesn't fill me with any sort of confidence.
aoeu
Just curious, can I ask where?

(I've been at Sony for nearly nine years and almost all laptops I've seen have been VAIOs).

apgwoz
Lenovo has the X300 (13" widescreen) which is a bit pricey. They're also releasing soon the X200 (12" widescreen), which I don't know the price of. I've had good luck with ThinkPads in the past (X22, 240), so I may wait for the X200, but am thinking strongly about the IdeaPad U110.

I've also had good luck with Fujitsu Lifebooks, and might give them another shot.

babo
ThinkPad X series are more robust the Macbook from my experience, we use them on the field for on-site data processing. Conditions are harsh, basically the is no care but heat and bumps but the ThinkPads just keep going. I was forced to switch to a Macbook from an X60 but still missing it.
Kaizyn
ThinkPads are/were nice. I've been a bit concerned about reduced quality since Lenovo took over from IBM, though admittedly I haven't seen any problems with the newer Lenovo machines I've had to work with that would justify such concerns.
gcv
I work on two laptops, depending on the project: a MacBook Pro, and an X-series ThinkPad. Both are great. Granted, I'd be on the MBP all the time if it weren't for historical reasons, but I have no complaints at all about the ThinkPad. If you don't want to use a Mac, it's the best alternative I know of.

I had to use someone else's VAIO for a few hours recently, and it sucked. The keyboard is lousy, and has a horrible layout if you're used to Fn and Ctrl keys in the places where Apple and IBM (Lenovo) put them (and you don't properly swap Caps Lock and Ctrl). I ended up plugging in an external keyboard to be able to get anything done. In addition, the whole thing looked and felt gimmicky.

tptacek
We have the same build quality problems. So we just buy spares. MacBooks are dirt cheap!
spydez
Can I have some of your dirt?

For me (and I'm guessing for most others), MacBooks cost the majority of a paycheck... Certainly not cheap enough to buy spares.

tptacek
Sure, I guess? Come work for us? Companies buy their employees laptops. Macbooks are cheaper than comparable Lenovos or Dells.
nailer
They're comparable in the US, but in every other coutnry there's a massive premium on Apple hardware compared to non-Apple. Check out the prices on apple.co.uk or apple.com.au.
tptacek
That sucks. Here, they're essentially disposable. Compared to salary and overhead, you can probably buy 2 MacBooks per team member and not even notice it.

If a MacBook cost 3x as much, I would definitely have issues over the build quality. My MacBook is currently duct taped together.

darjen
Work provides me with a Thinkpad T60 and I couldn't be happier with it. I would never buy a different notebook again, not even a Macbook.
vizard
Dell XPS M1330 preloaded with Ubuntu. No hassles of installation at least. In any case whatever notebook you choose, do a bit of research to find out that the wireless card works properly under linux. I have had decent experience with Intel's wifi cards since drivers are open source and hence included in most distros. Wifi is the number one annoyance on most notebooks.

edit : I wud advice to look for "Centrino" branded stuff. That usually works out of the box. But YMMV.

jobeirne
I had an Inspiron 1420 that I believe packs the same graphics card as the M1330 currently ships with and had a pretty awful experience trying to get Linux (or Windows, for that matter) to drive it well. It was very choppy. I believe it was an 8400M GS.
stcredzero
I have a coworker with the Dell 1420 laptop that's preloaded with Ubuntu, and he hasn't had a lick of trouble. I also installed Xubuntu on my Inspiron 1750 multimedia laptop, and once I hooked it up to my router, the Hardware Drivers utility downloaded scripts and everything basically got installed for me.
jobeirne
Your coworker's 'top may not have had the discrete GPU mine had; I've heard that the integrated chip works great.
adr
I have the same GPU and it works fine.
SwellJoe
I wud advice to look for "Centrino" branded stuff. That usually works out of the box. But YMMV.

The primary concern is the WiFi drivers (thought graphics can also be an issue). If it has the "Centrino" label, it's probably running an Intel WiFi and graphics chipset...both of which are documented fully and thus are very well supported in all modern Linux distributions. I have one of the first generation Dell's that included the then-freshly opened Intel WiFi and graphics chipsets, and it has always worked great, through numerous distros and versions.

notauser
I'd second the XPS M1330. My flatmate has one and it's pretty good (especially for the money).

The Eee 1000 Linux is very well built too, although the low screen resolution would probably make it unsuitable for a main dev box.

jobeirne
I've heard really scary things concerning Sony and the applicability of *nix drivers. I'd be really weary about buying a Vaio.
mrtron
I have beat up my Macbook over the last 2 years - I carried it back and forth to work for a year. I also have dropped it quite a few times.

So far so good for me - no problems. Perhaps wait a few months for the aluminum macbooks?

jcromartie
And I've babied mine for the last six months. Now the top case is breaking off in pieces and the trackpad button sticks. As always seems to be the case with hardware: YMMV.
mrtron
Have you taken it in to get the trackpad replaced?
ichverstehe
I am encountering exactly the same issues. Already had it replaced once, two months later the same happens. My optical drive went nuts as well. So, during the nine months I have had a MacBook, so far it spent almost two months at repairs -- unless I pay $200 upfront, a simple repair takes two weeks.

Rip. Off.

mrtron
Where is that at? I get mine back within 48 hours or something like that from the Toronto store - but usually it is much quicker.
ichverstehe
Denmark. There are no official Apple stores, so it's this company Humac handling all Apple business, which results in a tedious process, e.g. they can't perform simple fixes in the store, because they are not allowed to buy spare parts from Apple until they actually have the computer.

So, it's not directly Apples fault, but still, they should hire somebody else to do it. When your job is your computer two weeks without it is a very, very long time.

mdweezer
The HP Mini Note is a pretty awesome little machine. Decent horsepower for every day needs. Small form factor. Solid build with an aluminum case. High 1280 x 768 resolution display. Easily drop in a larger battery. Has Linux installed out of the box (though I would swap out for an Ubuntu spin off, Xubuntu maybe).

Plut it's cheap. Search YouTube for some nice reviews and comparisons.

http://www.buy.com/prod/hp-mini-note-2133-pc-via-c7-m-ulv-1-...

axod
How has it broken? Consider getting a MacBook pro or air... Slightly better build quality.

You won't find anything better from other manufacturers IMHO.

ichverstehe
They are simply too expensive for my non-budget.
donw
I'll put in another vote for the Thinkpads. Not only are they bulletproof, but nominally everything in them works under Linux, which is, even today, rare for a lot of laptops.
gtani
The last thread

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=197182

You can get used to pretty much anything, except Sony's. I, and friends have had reasonable experiences with Toshiba satellites. They score tolerably well on the 4 deal killers: display, keyboard, fan noise and heat. The best thing is that Costco and Target sell them with 90-day return policies (restocking fee at Target). Besides these criteria, i look for at least 4 or 5 intelligent reviews on amazon.

read the 5-star sony reviews on Amazon, many of them say: my Vaio's great, except for bloatware, and poor reliability, keyboard, battery life and customer support/service. Sony's customer service pretty much guarantees you'll never buy another sony if you have to contact them.

Computer repair people will tell you to stay away from vaios, Takes a ridiculous amount of work to replace e.g. harddrive, it's almost as if they're designed to be impossible to service/replace. Any other laptop, should take 45 seconds. i also had a horrible experience trying unsuccessfully to upgrade Windows on a Vaio a couple years back. You too when you have to resinstall O/S and can't find the media. Sony really pisses me off

I would caution to stay away from firs tproduction runs of a new generation of apple laptops. Witness people cooking eggs on the early 2006 MBP's, and MB airs throttled down to one core

vineet7kumar
One more vote for thinkpad ... I always wanted a macbook but when I saw the Thinkpad it was instantly like "Wow this is it ! How could I overlook it for so long ". Specially I liked the Thinkpad's keyboard much over thinkpad's
gtani
FYI: Last time my powerbook logic board replaced (3 weeks ago, 2nd time in 4 months!) they told me to not flex the chassis / logic board. So i got a rigid case (Brenthaven) and try to only use it on tables now.

also, if it's the same thing failing over and over, talk to a manager at apple store about getting a replacement. They can look up repair history, verify that it's a looper.

timcederman
I picked up my Dell XPS M1330 on sale for $500 (with 3gb of RAM, nVidia video card, etc). Definitely can't complain.
qhoxie
I went through the same search recently. Had it narrowed to a Thinkpad (T or X), M1330, and a Latitude D630. I did lots of reading and hands on comparisons, and I ended up going with the D630. Could not be happier. It is extremely rugged, on par with a Thinkpad, and the battery life is unparalleled.
edb
I've been running a Dell Inspiron 6400. If you buy it with a warranty, second LCD, etc.. and know how to talk to the salespeople, you can get it loaded up with all kinds of hardware upgrades for cheap, ESPECIALLY if you buy the 3 year warranty, and it will still be cheaper than a Macbook Pro.

I'm dual booting XP (for my music stuff) and Hardy on it (for my programming stuff) without a hitch, it has 1680x1050 resolution (screen real estate that the macbooks just can't compete with), swanky compiz effects to rival osx's and if anything on my machine goes wrong within the 3 years after purchasing, dell will fix it within 5 days. ANYTHING. (Used it once. Got my laptop back 3 days after I mailed it in!) The warranty alone is the main selling point for these machines.

I can't think of a better price/quality ratio than the Dells

michaelbuckbee
Ubuntu's installer is actually a Live DVD, so it's zero risk to take one into BestBuy, drop it into a laptop and reboot. If it comes up you're in good shape, if not, pop it out and try the next one.
SwellJoe
WiFi is the tricky bit. Just be sure to check that the wireless adapter is detected. Intel wireless chipsets are open, and so have excellent support in Linux. All of the "includes Linux" laptops from Lenovo and Dell have an Intel WiFi card rather than one of the lesser models (thus, the same model from Dell or Lenovo running Windows will not necessarily provide "drop Linux on it later" capability, unless you plan to replace the WiFi adapter with the Intel version--it does seem to be a replaceable component in the Dell and Lenovo models in question, though).
ensignavenger
Asustek- they are the primary contract manufacturer for the MacBook, and they make their own systems (Asus).

Their website is a pain to get information from, as they rely on their reseller partners (like me) to sell their products.

Full Disclosure: I sell Ausus products, and therefore might be biased. But then, I wouldn't be selling their products if I didn't like them!

ensignavenger
By the way, Asus pre installs Linux on their Eee PC's, and you can install it on pretty much any of their systems.

The Eee PC's are small, low cost systems.

browser411
Dell's vostro (business) line is very nice if you don't want to shell out for XPS. I got a 14", which they don't make any more but I think is the sweet spot for screen size, personally. Build quality is extremely solid and design is nondescript, which fits my style.