Probably because those companies would profit from more deregulation and independence of EU scrutiny (not that the EU would do a very good job scrutinizing banks and brokers, mind you).
It’s complicated. Bitfinex is registered in Taipei, but iFinex is the parent company and is registered in the British Virgin Islands. Additionally, Tether Operations Limited is registered in London.
2. Why it matters what assets this donor was holding
3. Why brexit is being demonized at all, people have spoken, 5 years ago. Long term it could be good or could be bad, we don’t really know. We do know the UK has kept its sovereignty. Presumably, many in the UK (the majority) wanted an independent nation. I don’t see why who promoted the movement is demonized. It’s a reasonable thing to want, not necessarily saying it’s a good thing.
Not being in the EU does not count as destabilising government and society. Either choice - remain or leave - was reasonable, the debate surrounding it was (largely) unreasonable.
There's no need to continue the unreasonableness now.
Brexit certainly destabilized British society by proving that young people have no stake in the social compact, old people will throw them under a bus as soon as they get the chance. It will also prove to have instigated the dissolution of the United Kingdom, eventually.
I cannot find a reputable intelligent source that has only good things to say about Brexit, and I can easily find many reputable intelligent sources that have only bad things to say about it. So on the balance, as many movements seemingly only driven by populism and propaganda seem to be, it looks pretty bad.
What a silly comment - it just means you haven't looked very hard.
Being part of the EU means following their absurd economic migrant immigration rules, and later bailing out half of the members, who lied about their finances when joining and are bankrupt.
Also, I'll take populism any day over elitism, especially British elites.
You're the same idiots (no matter which side of the pond) who think covid is a plandemic, elections get stolen and scientists are paid to lie by a secret cabal of... you know what? Just GTFO.
The CCP is currently bribing scientists world-wide to commit espionage. It's called the Thousand Talents program, and the FBI has dozens if not hundreds of open cases, including convictions.
For those who are interested in facts instead of leftist narrative, everything you've read on social media, cnn.com or msnbc.com is a lie. The closest I've seen to actual reporting is Sky Australia and NTD media, both on Youtube.
Yes, as opposed to Germany and France. Surely being a part of a supranational union that has its laws and courts means you renounce at least a part of your sovereignty.
To some extent you always do, it's a give and take. Just wait and see what the future trade agreements will bring. Spoiler alert - India is really keen on making it easy for their IT people to work in UK.
Allowing high skilled immigration as part of a trade deal would not only be a massive benefit to both parties, but also wouldn't be anything at all like allowing another state to make law in your nation.
The sovereignty part is about being able to decide your immigration policy, not about having one.
You believe that being an EU member prevented having the "massive benefit to both parties" in the past? Is it not more likely that a government that has publicly committed to reducing immigration was not interested in such benefits if indeed they existed?
Firstly, that’s a different point. You compared an immigration policy with sovereignty or the ability to make law in a different state.
Since you want to move the goalposts, yes, the public was and is interested in reducing overall immigration, especially of low skill. Even if it wasn’t, you appear to be suggesting that any immigration would be opposed, especially from India. Not sure where you get that idea from.
A better comparison might include a non-EU country. For example, can the EU create law (known as a regulation[1]) that would be enforceable in Canada or Japan?
No, but it could be done for Germany and France. EU law is legally supreme in EU member states. Now, you may argue that France is not less sovereign than Canada because of this because France acceded to this via its own sovereignty.
However, if you told me you're still your own boss because you let your boss be your boss I wouldn't be persuaded quite as much as if you were actually your own boss, and that might indicate how persuaded I'd be by the France's-acceding-is-full-sovereignty argument.
Canada is a good example - as a member of USMCA [1], Canada made a sovereign decision to extend the length of copyright to be compatible with US. Is Canada it's own boss?
Clearly, yes. If the US had made a law that Canada didn’t even need to legislate, then it would be equivalent to an EU regulation.
I’m not sure why you think being part of NAFTA, a free trade agreement, is equivalent to being an EU member and thus accepting law from a supra state, you’d have to explain that.
* Sovereignty is not a binary concept - it is not the case that you either have 1 or 0 sovereignty.
* The geopolitical game is not a zero sum game.
Both observations are trivial and I am surprised that they need to be stated here at all.
Canada choose to amend it's law [1] for the sole reason of complying with USMCA. Thus Canada
sees the agreement a mutually beneficial (no zero sum). Canada "clearly yes" still a sovereign
state so you seem to agree that sovereignty is not binary.
To remain in the game, UK will have to enter into trade agreements with other players
and as a consequence enact compromises either in law or in policy. Immigration is a good example
because 1. one of the stated benefits of leaving the EU is tighter control and reduction of immigration
and 2. as a consequence of the need to negotiate with trade partners, it may very well need to relax those
controls.
Finally note that UK was not forced to join the EU. It did so by choice as a sovereign state. While in EU,
it was a major member of the club and could and did steer policy and legislation to suit it's own needs.
Comparing France to Canada with respect to the EU and their sovereignty relies on those assumptions. Hence:
> Canada "clearly yes" still a sovereign state so you seem to agree that sovereignty is not binary.
is not you pointing out something to me, nor likely anyone else but yourself.
> To remain in the game…
To that entire paragraph, again, I have to point out that it's irrelevant to the points being made against the statement “We do know the UK has kept its sovereignty”. It strikes me rather like someone who's trying to persuade an opponent by shifting their "gotcha" arguments as they are challenged and fall instead of sticking to the point, especially considering the decision to leave and leaving are done.
When you find a trade agreement that means another state will make law in the UK and have its law supreme, then you'll begin to have a relevant point about what's being given up for immigration or whatever. Keep in mind that bit about game theory, they have scoring systems ;-)
> Finally note that UK was not forced to join the EU. It did so by choice as a sovereign state.
And undermined its sovereignty to an enormous degree that actually threatened the constitution. From 22:31 of Vernon Bognador's talk[0] at Yale:
> When Harold Macmillan sought to join, he encountered fundamental difficulties, difficulties which probably have never been resolved, and the essence of the problem was one of fitting Britain into a continental system whose assumptions about constitutions, politics and economics was so different from those held in Britain.
> The most fundamental problem, perhaps, was that of fitting a constitutional system based on the sovereignty of parliament and the absence of a codified constitution into one based on a written constitution, the separation of powers, and subordination of the legal systems of the member states to superior system of European law.
Vernon Bognador is British Research Professor at the Institute for Contemporary British History at King's College London and Professor of Politics at the New College of the Humanities. He is also Emeritus Professor of Politics and Government at the University of Oxford and Emeritus Fellow of Brasenose College, Oxford, and has written several books on the British constitution and Brexit. He voted to remain in the EU[1].
And to this:
> While in EU, it was a major member of the club and could and did steer policy and legislation to suit it's own needs.
I want to underline, as I wrote above I'm not particularly interested in hackneyed arguments for remaining in the EU given that they are moot and not relevant, so I'd ask that you save them for your friends and try to keep to the point with future replies.
I think it matters. If an entity donates a considerable amount of money to a political party, and the goals are not obviously aligned, it poses questions about why they did it.
It depends on what you mean by "a norm". In the United States, hundreds of millions of dollars in political donations are performed privately, via super PACs and "dark money".
Worth noting that this funding was not for the leave campaign, but rather the failed “Brexit party” that was formed long after Britain had already voted to leave the European Union.
49 comments
[ 4.0 ms ] story [ 111 ms ] threadNigel Farage has always given passionate speeches that resonated with an internet crowd.
It resulted in donations to his party.
Not really news.
The purpose of this type of language is to influence people. In other words, it's propaganda.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Wo...
Donating to Nigel Farage's party is all that happened.
Someone from Asia has a local name and a "western" name, stop the presses. You know that is extremely common right?
"Secret identity business man uses the most relevant jurisdictions for doing international business and appears in a data leak, look at that" mmmmk
1. Why this is at the top of HN
2. Why it matters what assets this donor was holding
3. Why brexit is being demonized at all, people have spoken, 5 years ago. Long term it could be good or could be bad, we don’t really know. We do know the UK has kept its sovereignty. Presumably, many in the UK (the majority) wanted an independent nation. I don’t see why who promoted the movement is demonized. It’s a reasonable thing to want, not necessarily saying it’s a good thing.
There's no need to continue the unreasonableness now.
Being part of the EU means following their absurd economic migrant immigration rules, and later bailing out half of the members, who lied about their finances when joining and are bankrupt.
Also, I'll take populism any day over elitism, especially British elites.
> elections get stolen
That's what the Dems said in 2016, and Hillary Clinton still denies losing. Don't you believe your own comrades?
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2018/09/11/many-democrats-...
Regarding 2020, why is there a restraining order against election investigations in Arizona? Surely we all want to know the truth, right?
https://www.azfamily.com/news/politics/arizona_politics/coun...
> scientists are paid to lie by a secret cabal of
The CCP is currently bribing scientists world-wide to commit espionage. It's called the Thousand Talents program, and the FBI has dozens if not hundreds of open cases, including convictions.
https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/counterintelligence/the-chin...
> Just GTFO.
Ignorance is bliss, at least for you, hypocrite.
For those who are interested in facts instead of leftist narrative, everything you've read on social media, cnn.com or msnbc.com is a lie. The closest I've seen to actual reporting is Sky Australia and NTD media, both on Youtube.
As opposed to, say, Germany or France?
The sovereignty part is about being able to decide your immigration policy, not about having one.
Since you want to move the goalposts, yes, the public was and is interested in reducing overall immigration, especially of low skill. Even if it wasn’t, you appear to be suggesting that any immigration would be opposed, especially from India. Not sure where you get that idea from.
No, but it could be done for Germany and France. EU law is legally supreme in EU member states. Now, you may argue that France is not less sovereign than Canada because of this because France acceded to this via its own sovereignty.
However, if you told me you're still your own boss because you let your boss be your boss I wouldn't be persuaded quite as much as if you were actually your own boss, and that might indicate how persuaded I'd be by the France's-acceding-is-full-sovereignty argument.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_(European_Union)
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Mexico%E...
I’m not sure why you think being part of NAFTA, a free trade agreement, is equivalent to being an EU member and thus accepting law from a supra state, you’d have to explain that.
* Sovereignty is not a binary concept - it is not the case that you either have 1 or 0 sovereignty.
* The geopolitical game is not a zero sum game.
Both observations are trivial and I am surprised that they need to be stated here at all.
Canada choose to amend it's law [1] for the sole reason of complying with USMCA. Thus Canada sees the agreement a mutually beneficial (no zero sum). Canada "clearly yes" still a sovereign state so you seem to agree that sovereignty is not binary.
To remain in the game, UK will have to enter into trade agreements with other players and as a consequence enact compromises either in law or in policy. Immigration is a good example because 1. one of the stated benefits of leaving the EU is tighter control and reduction of immigration and 2. as a consequence of the need to negotiate with trade partners, it may very well need to relax those controls.
Finally note that UK was not forced to join the EU. It did so by choice as a sovereign state. While in EU, it was a major member of the club and could and did steer policy and legislation to suit it's own needs.
[1] https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/what-the-amendments-to-the...
> Canada "clearly yes" still a sovereign state so you seem to agree that sovereignty is not binary.
is not you pointing out something to me, nor likely anyone else but yourself.
> To remain in the game…
To that entire paragraph, again, I have to point out that it's irrelevant to the points being made against the statement “We do know the UK has kept its sovereignty”. It strikes me rather like someone who's trying to persuade an opponent by shifting their "gotcha" arguments as they are challenged and fall instead of sticking to the point, especially considering the decision to leave and leaving are done.
When you find a trade agreement that means another state will make law in the UK and have its law supreme, then you'll begin to have a relevant point about what's being given up for immigration or whatever. Keep in mind that bit about game theory, they have scoring systems ;-)
> Finally note that UK was not forced to join the EU. It did so by choice as a sovereign state.
And undermined its sovereignty to an enormous degree that actually threatened the constitution. From 22:31 of Vernon Bognador's talk[0] at Yale:
> When Harold Macmillan sought to join, he encountered fundamental difficulties, difficulties which probably have never been resolved, and the essence of the problem was one of fitting Britain into a continental system whose assumptions about constitutions, politics and economics was so different from those held in Britain.
> The most fundamental problem, perhaps, was that of fitting a constitutional system based on the sovereignty of parliament and the absence of a codified constitution into one based on a written constitution, the separation of powers, and subordination of the legal systems of the member states to superior system of European law.
Vernon Bognador is British Research Professor at the Institute for Contemporary British History at King's College London and Professor of Politics at the New College of the Humanities. He is also Emeritus Professor of Politics and Government at the University of Oxford and Emeritus Fellow of Brasenose College, Oxford, and has written several books on the British constitution and Brexit. He voted to remain in the EU[1].
And to this:
> While in EU, it was a major member of the club and could and did steer policy and legislation to suit it's own needs.
I want to underline, as I wrote above I'm not particularly interested in hackneyed arguments for remaining in the EU given that they are moot and not relevant, so I'd ask that you save them for your friends and try to keep to the point with future replies.
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMV9wSSLcCY
[1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/10/second-refer...