> Twitter has stood its ground at times. It said in February that it wouldn't block activists, journalists and politicians in India. Those safeguards don't apply to others, though.
Oh, where do you sign up to become an official activist so you’re afforded the right to express your opinion on Twitter?
That seems true in America too, where official = the narratives deemed acceptable by progressive activists and by the executives/employees of progressive corporations such as big technology firms that control our narratives. If you fall outside those narratives you face censorship, deplatforming, demonetization, etc. The fact that it isn’t the government imposing those restrictions doesn’t change its impact on societal discourse.
Ha! Twitter is all over the place. In India they take down dissent at the request of the government, in the US they do the same voluntarily and also block activists they disagree with.
There has been a lot of recent foreign criticism leveled at the Indian government regarding COVID, which seems like political opportunism. Only a month or two ago, India was in a great position with respect to COVID and was regarded as having successfully managed the pandemic. Another article recently discussed on HN made clear that India enacted much more stringent mandates and containment procedures than the US ever did, for example forcing entire apartment buildings to stay indoors if even one resident tested positive.
Their current situation is not caused by outright negligence but complex factors no one understands yet. India also willingly exported more than half their vaccines to other nations, and even charged nothing for them in many cases. They could’ve certainly been more selfish and had an easier situation for themselves. It seems very premature to criticize India or its government. When they’re facing this tough situation, I don’t think it’s appropriate for poorly informed outsiders to assail a nation blindly - it feels gross to me.
Another way to look at this is that just as people here in America (activists, journalists, politicians) allege Russian interference in elections and the threat of foreign actors in social media, the Indian government and much of its citizenry are wary of interference and propaganda emerging largely from the West. It’s already been quite apparent when you look at the cringeworthy segments people like John Oliver run about India and its government, as well as one sided coverage of the farmers protests, and activist commentary from everyone ranging from celebrities like Rihanna to activists like Greta Thunberg.
I understand why India would take these steps to protect the integrity of their nation’s dialog. Why wouldn’t these countries be concerned about outside interference in this day and age? Surely Americans don’t have exclusive claim to fears of foreign interference. If anything this move is probably regarded as too late by people in India.
Prime minister and home minister rallying crowds without masks, religious congregations surely had nothing to do with the spike coinciding with that timeline.
'Oh reality is more complicated' is as trite, as generic and as content free as one can get
Outdoor transmission is incredibly rare. What’s your causal evidence linking certain people or certain actions to what’s happening now, and how do you separate that from the advent of new variants, for example? Or as you put it: blaming the government or those events is as trite, as generic, and as content free as one can get.
No, not really. Transmission rates while outdoors are only low if you comply with requirements such as ensuring you always stay at least 2 meters away from everyone and don't interact with people. Hence the importance of mask, sanitize surfaces, and preserve social distancing.
Large political rallies and the government's decision to prematurely reopen everything against better judgement are known key factors in India's outbreak.
I’m not sure I understand what you’re pointing to here. The timeline you’re referring to is aligned with what I said - that India was regarded to have managed the pandemic well just a month or two ago. It’s late April now and late Feb is when the new spike began. On March 1, the entire country still had only 15K cases per day on a rolling weekly average - nearly indistinguishable as a new and different pattern. The new spike did not reach prior peaks until early April, which was an unexpectedly fast and unprecedented pace of growth.
> Large political rallies and the government's decision to prematurely reopen everything against better judgement are known key factors in India's outbreak
I’m not sure if you’re familiar with India’s pandemic plan, but they didn’t “reopen everything”, and you should be careful to avoid absolute statements like this which aren’t based on facts. It’s also not possible to describe India’s policy in such a monolithic way since each state has authority to impose its own mandates. That said, after the very harsh initial restrictions, India’s strategy has been less focused on what’s open/unopened and more focused on localized containment, which was highly successful in 2020. Lastly keep in mind that as a democracy, the federal government of India can’t enact arbitrary restrictions. It has to function within the confines of the legal system, political norms, and so on.
I would also caution pointing at political rallies as “known key factors” just because news articles or social media are speculating about it - this is not the same as causal evidence. The best written articles on the India spike (https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19s-ground-zero-shifts-to...) are careful to not decisively blame any one factor. Before the surge, mobility was up generally in the country, independent of elections. The emphasis on elections and rallies, which are only taking place in a few states (this isn’t a general election year), seem to be politically motivated more than anything. As I said earlier other factors like the advent of new variants need to be studied more. The WSJ notes:
> Indian scientists said there hasn’t been enough testing to measure which variants are powering the surge, but the accelerating rate of the spread of infections suggests a more viral form is spreading across the country.
Yeah right some folks are still dragging their feet about lack of convincing causal evidence that smoking increases lung cancer risk. An Upton Sinclair quote comes to the mind.
Political rallies cover two of three 'C's called out, but folks find it hard to believe when they are invested in a narrative that requires them not to believe. Even if the strain is a more virulent form, it is unlikely that that rallies helped keeping numbers in check.
Targeted misdirection "oh look more virulent strain" is exactly that, a motivated misdirection.
> (...) The timeline you’re referring to is aligned with what I said - that India was regarded to have managed the pandemic well just a month or two ago.
Please don't try to gaslight. I've refuted your baseless assertion that everything was all fine and dandy in India regarding it's struggle with the covid-19 pandemic in Feb/March. I've provided a reputable reference from that time that already showed great concern about the pending disaster, and even enumerates key factors that drove India's covid-19 infections absurd growth.
Either you deal with reality and facts, or refrain from posting disinformation and outright lies.
Your own BBC link only talks about cases increasing only in a few states at that time. It quoted medical authorities saying the increased number of cases in some states could be due to increased testing. It includes a graph showing that the overall case rate and death rate in India wasn’t out of the ordinary, matching short lived fluctuations previously seen. This same article also doesn’t single out political rallies or reopening as you did - it speculated about those possibilities for some localities, and also speculated that it could be due to new variants, but doesn’t decisively point at anything as a “key factor” driving a new countrywide surge. The virologist quoted there also clearly didn’t think a big new countrywide surge had begun, given his very tempered statement:
> "We may see more localised surges in different part of the country in the coming weeks, and the only way to stay on top of the situation is to be vigilant. We need to be concerned but we are not at a stage where we need to panic"
> Your own BBC link only talks about cases increasing only in a few states at that time.
From the article:
> Mr Menon says the only reasonable conclusion is that surveillance in these states is stronger and that a similar rise in other states may simply have gone undetected so far.
Also, FTA:
> Dr A Fathahudeen, who is part of Kerala's Covid task force, says his state has been reporting a persistent rise in cases in the past few weeks, but it's largely because of improved testing. (...) He advises other states to follow the same measures. "Not finding new cases doesn't mean Covid has gone away. It simply means that the virus is burning through the population until it finds weaker victims like the elderly and people with co-morbidities."
If you have no intention to be honest, please refrain from posting at all.
You’re quoting random opinions that don’t pertain to what we were debating. This still doesn’t refute my original claim that India was regarded to have managed the pandemic well just a month or two ago, and that the sudden rise in cases could be due to any number of factors, not just “political rallies” (which were only in a few states) or “opening up” (which varies by location). Literally nothing you have shared or posted proves anything is a “key factor”.
You’re digging yourself into a deeper hole by repeatedly quoting open speculation instead of actual evidence. I have no interest in discussing this further with a new account that is running a Gish gallop, if even that. Goodbye.
Criticism is the path to improvement. This is yet more proof that Indian leadership is doubling down on public relations magic and attempts to control the narrative when they should be focusing on practical ways of improving the situation. Politicians that win through hardcore divide and conquer strategies perform badly when tested with real crises.
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[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 68.0 ms ] threadOh, where do you sign up to become an official activist so you’re afforded the right to express your opinion on Twitter?
Their current situation is not caused by outright negligence but complex factors no one understands yet. India also willingly exported more than half their vaccines to other nations, and even charged nothing for them in many cases. They could’ve certainly been more selfish and had an easier situation for themselves. It seems very premature to criticize India or its government. When they’re facing this tough situation, I don’t think it’s appropriate for poorly informed outsiders to assail a nation blindly - it feels gross to me.
Another way to look at this is that just as people here in America (activists, journalists, politicians) allege Russian interference in elections and the threat of foreign actors in social media, the Indian government and much of its citizenry are wary of interference and propaganda emerging largely from the West. It’s already been quite apparent when you look at the cringeworthy segments people like John Oliver run about India and its government, as well as one sided coverage of the farmers protests, and activist commentary from everyone ranging from celebrities like Rihanna to activists like Greta Thunberg.
I understand why India would take these steps to protect the integrity of their nation’s dialog. Why wouldn’t these countries be concerned about outside interference in this day and age? Surely Americans don’t have exclusive claim to fears of foreign interference. If anything this move is probably regarded as too late by people in India.
'Oh reality is more complicated' is as trite, as generic and as content free as one can get
No, not really. Transmission rates while outdoors are only low if you comply with requirements such as ensuring you always stay at least 2 meters away from everyone and don't interact with people. Hence the importance of mask, sanitize surfaces, and preserve social distancing.
No, not really.
The surge in covid-19 cases has been ongoing since late Feb/early March 2021.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-56206004
Infection rates grew exponentially since.
Large political rallies and the government's decision to prematurely reopen everything against better judgement are known key factors in India's outbreak.
I’m not sure I understand what you’re pointing to here. The timeline you’re referring to is aligned with what I said - that India was regarded to have managed the pandemic well just a month or two ago. It’s late April now and late Feb is when the new spike began. On March 1, the entire country still had only 15K cases per day on a rolling weekly average - nearly indistinguishable as a new and different pattern. The new spike did not reach prior peaks until early April, which was an unexpectedly fast and unprecedented pace of growth.
> Large political rallies and the government's decision to prematurely reopen everything against better judgement are known key factors in India's outbreak
I’m not sure if you’re familiar with India’s pandemic plan, but they didn’t “reopen everything”, and you should be careful to avoid absolute statements like this which aren’t based on facts. It’s also not possible to describe India’s policy in such a monolithic way since each state has authority to impose its own mandates. That said, after the very harsh initial restrictions, India’s strategy has been less focused on what’s open/unopened and more focused on localized containment, which was highly successful in 2020. Lastly keep in mind that as a democracy, the federal government of India can’t enact arbitrary restrictions. It has to function within the confines of the legal system, political norms, and so on.
I would also caution pointing at political rallies as “known key factors” just because news articles or social media are speculating about it - this is not the same as causal evidence. The best written articles on the India spike (https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19s-ground-zero-shifts-to...) are careful to not decisively blame any one factor. Before the surge, mobility was up generally in the country, independent of elections. The emphasis on elections and rallies, which are only taking place in a few states (this isn’t a general election year), seem to be politically motivated more than anything. As I said earlier other factors like the advent of new variants need to be studied more. The WSJ notes:
> Indian scientists said there hasn’t been enough testing to measure which variants are powering the surge, but the accelerating rate of the spread of infections suggests a more viral form is spreading across the country.
There are flat earthers and 'outdoor transmissions are rare'ers. Similarities are striking. Upton Sinclair still comes to the mind.
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2...
Political rallies cover two of three 'C's called out, but folks find it hard to believe when they are invested in a narrative that requires them not to believe. Even if the strain is a more virulent form, it is unlikely that that rallies helped keeping numbers in check.
Targeted misdirection "oh look more virulent strain" is exactly that, a motivated misdirection.
Please don't try to gaslight. I've refuted your baseless assertion that everything was all fine and dandy in India regarding it's struggle with the covid-19 pandemic in Feb/March. I've provided a reputable reference from that time that already showed great concern about the pending disaster, and even enumerates key factors that drove India's covid-19 infections absurd growth.
Either you deal with reality and facts, or refrain from posting disinformation and outright lies.
You ask for too much sir (or ma'm)
> "We may see more localised surges in different part of the country in the coming weeks, and the only way to stay on top of the situation is to be vigilant. We need to be concerned but we are not at a stage where we need to panic"
Did you even read the article?
From the article:
> Mr Menon says the only reasonable conclusion is that surveillance in these states is stronger and that a similar rise in other states may simply have gone undetected so far.
Also, FTA:
> Dr A Fathahudeen, who is part of Kerala's Covid task force, says his state has been reporting a persistent rise in cases in the past few weeks, but it's largely because of improved testing. (...) He advises other states to follow the same measures. "Not finding new cases doesn't mean Covid has gone away. It simply means that the virus is burning through the population until it finds weaker victims like the elderly and people with co-morbidities."
If you have no intention to be honest, please refrain from posting at all.
You’re digging yourself into a deeper hole by repeatedly quoting open speculation instead of actual evidence. I have no interest in discussing this further with a new account that is running a Gish gallop, if even that. Goodbye.
I've quoted the Kerala COVID task force representative discussing details of India's covid ongoing massive COVID outbreak.
I'm not going to continue wasting time with an individual so hell-bent on trying to gaslight and misrepresent facts and reality.
Below you wrote: > Outdoor transmission is incredibly rare.
Which is demonstrably not true. You were responding to people in close proximity for long periods of time outside.
Just in case you are not familiar with the tactics.