Ask HN: Poor Job Posting? "Our office is too big.."

131 points by latch ↗ HN
Perhaps grumpiness has got the best of me this morning, but this is at least the second time that I've seen the "Our office is too big -- we need some badass hackers to fill it up", job posting on HN and something about it grates me the wrong way.

First, the formatting is brutal. It is possibly a markup language I simply don't recognize – but then, neither does HN. The different roles blend into each other, the spacing is all uniform removing any visual grouping.

Second, the content is childish. It screams (to me) of either unprofessionalism or fake-cool. What's "TONS" of experience? What does "physically live at a ton of smb's" mean? Are you saying the product is already in use by a lot of business that hire mostly fat employees? What's an "extremely small core dev team"? 1? Scaling "really big stuff"? Like a mountain? Finally, the salary description includes "blah blah blah".

Here's a writing tip, words that end in "ly" can normally (see what I did there?) be removed. Drop the "ridiculously", "incredibly", the two "extremely"'s in the same phrase.

As a final thought, since you have posted this more than once, why not experiment with different formats/content and figure out what works best. Maybe I'm wrong and your format is attracting exactly who you are hoping it is. However, in my experience, people stick to a very specific employing process and never experiment/tweak – even though it's actually something where the impact of variations can be measured quite easily.

38 comments

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Oh man, I missed the most obvious part...the title actually uses the word "badass". I know it's a disgusting word, but to me (and i'm going to guess a lot of folk), "badass" == "douchebag".
At least they weren't asking for ninja pirate rockstars or whatever...
Give it time... Third time is the charm, right?
Why do some companies do that?

I see ads all the time seeking "world class engineers". Why are they wasting their time and money like that? There's really only a handful of these "industry rockstars" in the world. Just contact them directly.

(comment deleted)
Maybe they meant, uh, somethin' badass... like REO Speedwagon! [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2_SkseXtAo (:35)]

</quote>

I for one welcome the new tween season of YCombinator. Now that people are raising $40 million for unfinished photo sharing apps, it's time to start throwing that pasta at the wall.

Also tell us who you are and what you do.
Who cares?

I sort of liked it because I do have tons of experience and I often see job postings that make me think that my experience would not be appreciated. If I lived around there and was considering a move I'd apply.

You give some good feedback but maybe you could have struck a stance of, "Hey, do you know you could be alienating a large fraction of your readers with the style of your job posting? Here is why."

These guys are trying to do a startup. It's a hard thing to do. Why grouse at them? Perhaps their posting is unprofessional because they are unprofessional, in the sense of not having had lots of professional experience yet. Maybe cut them some slack instead instead of increasing the concentration of venom in the commons.

Its subjective, but if it attracts the type of developers they are looking for, then its a success.

From my perspective, it seems like they made a mistake, and didn't get feedback from a mentor who has hired before. Hiring is hard. Don't screw it up. And if you do screw it up, fail quick and listen to the feedback. I would listen to the HN community and reconsider the approach.

If they can't take criticism on the interwebs, they won't last long in the real world. Better to get it with timely advise than after they close their doors and go home.
Yes, but "slight OCD" (one of the requirements) doesn't mesh well with incorrect capitalization.
These guys are trying to do a startup. It's a hard thing to do. Why grouse at them?

Because they raised millions of dollars. This isn't a game. Get your shit together.

It's frustrating seeing clowns with money when other people could rip a new paradigm-sized hole in the world given the same opportunity.

I think this means it is a very good job posting,

Some companies sit and write down a job post making sure they accurately describe the positions, cross all the t's and make sure not to say anything that may seem unprofessional.

Some companies write it on the back of napkin, have no qualms about coming off as "unprofessional" and want to make sure whoever they hire is a good fit culturally.

There isnt a right and a wrong way, someones professionalism is another persons beige, being open about your company culture is the best way to make sure you hire people that will fit in to the company.

i agree this is subjective. I have a feeling this posting will appeal to some people. I just think it'll put off at least as many.

I do think it would be really neat if they posted a 2nd one that was the complete opposite and did some analysis of the results.

Also whenever a job post says "competitive salary" that can usually be interpreted as saying "average salary". Even jobs with below average salaries use that bullet point.
The interesting thing about the phrase "competitive salary" is that it doesn't say who is competing. If a salary is high, then sure, it's the sort of salary you might get if companies are competing to hire you; but if a salary is low, it's the sort of salary you might get if you were competing with N other people to get a job.
> Maybe I'm wrong and your format is attracting exactly who you are hoping it is.

Either way re-posting the same crappy ad so soon doesn't make sense. If it worked the first time around, why would they feel the need to re-post it? On the other hand if it didn't work, why would anyone expect an unchanged re-post to fare any better?

The second time it was posted, that's when I decided to click. Sometimes it takes something to be seen twice before it registers. Maybe the fact that there were two ads (one on top of the other) told my brain to stop and click.

Also, OP is definitely helping them spread the word ;)

You aren't in their mind though.

They are doing a startup. They are 110% focused on their startup and only their startup. They exist. You don't exist unless you can help them. They need help, so they'll stand on the side of the HN highway with their poorly written cardboard sign every day until Woz 2011 emails them to work for minimum wage + large empty option grant.

It's exciting. Not only is it exciting -- it's pure excitement. They live on concentrated adrenaline, weekly beans, user stats, and the approval of their other startup peers.

It even has its own entry in Axis II of the DSM IV.

(comment deleted)
I agree with the OP. It reminded me of one of those high volume tech recruiters who pester hiring managers about their "rock star developer who just came available out of Myspace". The tone was juvenile. Boasting about how you "killed it" with the VC's in a public forum certainly sets an interesting tone with candidates.
Another thing that rubs me the wrong way is that I'm not quite sure what these postings are…

Are they ads? Kind of. Are they posts? Kind of. Are they sponsored / paid for? No idea. I can't comment on them. I can't even permalink to them. I can't even know who posted it. I don't know how or if my vote is going to count.

It's obviously some kind of yc-/pg-sanctioned promotion for YC startup, but I think it needs to either be more transparently an ad, or more transparently a posting. It looks too similar to a normal posting to be an ad, but it has this uncanny difference that makes me very uneasy.

Once you know the format (no upvote), they are easy to spot. But I agree it isn't obvious for a while. I believe they have the option to turn on/off comments, but most turn them off.

For anyone else curious, you are right that they are jobs for YC startups and it's the only advertising you see on HN. Generally I enjoy it..I mean for ads, they are pretty relevant.

I think merely prefixing the title with "YC Job Offer: " or something would make it more clear.

The ad looks half assed. So is startup life, in general. I agree with Davi.

It's so tough to hire that everyone is trying to differentiate themselves as companies. They're trying rather too hard to be cute about it and failing....or not trying and succeeding.

Does anyone actually read these and say "oh man, I'd apply but I can't since I love shitty code and I want to build stuff that only a couple people use". I agree with the OP, I am not sure who they are trying to attract with these types of posts. But maybe I'm getting too old.
Actually, when I read the post I thought "I love shitty code that just gets the job done...this job probably isn't for me".
These ads are horrible because:

  - lack of formatting
  - lack of specificity (we want awesome people!!!)
  - lack of respect for the reader (we're too special to tell you who we are)
  - improper tone (unless you *want* to sound like a 12 year old on speed)
  - high frequency of posts violating formatting and respect

I'll volunteer to proof and fix your job postings. Email them to me and I'll make 'em pretty.

For an hourly fee, I'll even teach you to sound like an adult in your written communication (ROI out the wazoo).

>For an hourly fee, I'll even teach you to sound like an adult in your written communication (ROI out the wazoo).

People posting jobs on HN, please give this person your money.

Please.

I'm sure whoever wrote this creative job ad is trying their best, but you're right... it comes across as kinda douchy, which they certainly did not intend.

They've just closed their round of funding, and I'm sure they're feeling incredibly pleased with themselves for a well-deserved win. But the tone of the post makes it sound a little bit like they spent a bit too much of those 9 vcs' money on coke.

The super-stealthiness is going to be a big problem here, frankly. The kind of developers that they claim to want to hire can work anywhere they want. They are choosing where to work based on being able to do work which is meaningful and interesting. This post gives

* Zero information about the kind of work

* Zero information about the founders' personalities (except to make them seem unusually satisfied with themselves) and

* Zero reasons to want to work at the company.

If this product is really live at "tons of SMBs", why the stealthiness? What are you hiding?

Does the title itself not turn anyone else off? "Our office is too big..." is a big red flag to me. Seems like they either took too much money too early or are having internal scaling issues, possibly both. Definitely not in the vein of the lean startup...
I thought of that, didn't mention it 'cuz I thought I was getting too picky. I've worked with a startup where an oversized office caused serious financial problems. Planning that stuff can be hard...above my pay grade.
"My place is two cubic meters, and we only take up 1.5 cubic meters. We've got room for a whole 'nother two thirds of a person!"
I would definitely appreciate more about what they actually do and how many SMBs they are actively serving right now.

There is a huge difference between 'we have a giant market to go after' and 'we are serving 10,000 SMBs and growing daily.'