Ask HN: I think I hate the software development industry? Am I crazy?

Just my opinion, I was on a career track I didnt like in my late 20s, went back to school, then a comparatively junior job, and was "well into my 30s", like 38, by the time things stabilized. When you're that age, it won't feel that old, unless maybe you spend another decade doing something you hate

Similarly, hard to comment on options to jump elsewhere without details. I'd generally argue that there are likely adjacent alternatives, but of course you might find those equally unacceptable.

In the same town you might find two people doing similar work and getting paid differently by a factor of 1.5 if not 2.

I've worked at places that vary dramatically in how toxic they are from

  * I left in a huff and 6 months later they called and said they hadn't hired a replacement
  and wanted advice,  I told them that there was no possibility of retaining people
  if they didn't fire my old boss.  They fired my old boss

  * People who are really nice

You could also try different areas technical writing, teaching etc

This is a fallacy. If you hate it, you will still hate it no matter how much you make. The motivation gained by the larger salary will wear off in about a month or two.

I’ve encountered massively different cultures at different jobs, I don’t believe there is a single tech culture.

> I’ve considered maybe just doing the leetcode circus and trying to land mind numbing FAANG job.

Regarding FAANG my experience is entirely second hand and mostly from people at Google. I don’t know how you came to the belief that it’s “mind numbing”. The only conclusion I can draw from everything I’ve heard is that it’s not uniform. Some people have great assignments and great bosses, some crap and crap.

Based on these two things, I’m wondering if you really have the breadth of experience to make these generalizations and conclusions, but on the other hand...

> I’ve never been a particularly good software developer compared to many of the people I’ve interacted with.

That’s not a great sign, you’re reporting not to like dev work and additionally not being particularly great at it. I’m not convinced you have a lack of aptitude, this may very well be a result of lack of interest, regardless that’s a large red flag in my book.

The most persuasive bit you’ve said for leaving the industry was disliking the people. For me, one of the best parts about being an engineer is being around people I get along with. In very general terms I believe there is a typical engineer personality; it comes down to the way we think about the world around us, and how we approach problems. If you have some other way to earn a living doing work you like around people you like I’d probably just do that instead; a few years lost to school and some debt seem like a relatively small price to pay.

This part really resonates.

"if I’m going to have to do something I hate 8+ hours a day, I would at least to prefer to be making enough money to distract me from it. I’m not anywhere near there at the moment."

Even people who enjoy coding don't necessarily want to do it as a job, and they find themselves happier in roles where their software skills are a bonus to whatever they do for their job.

I think an an easy analogy is being a doctor. Just because you went to medical school and enjoy helping people feel better, doesn't mean you enjoy the day-to-day of being a doctor. Lots of people would say a doctor is crazy for not being a practitioner anymore because becoming a doctor means having a well paid and highly coveted job in lots of places. But people do give up practicing as a doctor and do other things.

There's a pretty big world outside of software development. If you don't want to do it, then don't do it.

This shouldn’t be a factor in my opinion.

In fact, consider 40 year old you - they would appreciate that 30’s you set you on a new track.

2. You're also trying to sabotage change within yourself by saying "oh, but it'll take so long/be so expensive". You were not done the moment you left school. That's a common belief that is imposed upon young people, but carried to its conclusion, it's rather ugly and implies that you're either a huge success or eternally damned at age 30, and all events after that point are handwaved away in a Logan's Run fashion. 30 is more commonly a point where people in our society start to get a sense of their actual career path and shift from "consumers" of the current culture to "architects" of the next culture; what preceded that was mostly performative in the average case, a demonstrative adulting to "make the grade", and employment as a footsoldier for this or that ideology. You are cynical about this behavior already(hence your low opinion of the FAANG stereotype). It is therefore time to let go of youthful impulses and seek reflection.

3. This is the point where you should go study the extracurriculars you bypassed the first time because they weren't "practical". You can limit it to one a semester, night classes, online classes. You don't have to rush into a new degree. Through works of art, studied or improvised performance, sporting achievements, philosophising and general appreciation of the human condition, you can loosen the grip on things you have come to hate and start taking some new ones. The arts never have to become your profession, but they will let you see yourself better.

I kind of solved it by building my own tech business and consulting if I need cash.

Building your own business can be draining if you're in startup mode - but if you're chill and not trying to risk half a million pursuing millions, you can do a nice small business that earn some money you can live on.

I needed to consult a few times because my side projects got destroyed by google (change in ad revenue) or stopped working for whatever reason. It's not ideal but you'd appreciate the shorter stints, compared to full time jobs. I can't stand most people in tech for more than 6 months, anyway.

I dipped my feet in in full time employment, but that was mainly to collect paternity benefits and because with small kids it's harder to do all the things you need to run a business.

I have more than a few friends who are equally tired of the environment. Maybe we should start a company for developers who hate the tech scene?

Best of luck!

1. Reflect on what you actually have enjoyed out of the job, if anything. What have been any bright spots? If there's nothing at the job, what outside of work motivates you to do more of it? 2. What jobs have more of those things you like? These aren't always huge, deep things. Like writing? Take a look at marketing, journalism, technical sales support, etc. Like working with customers? Look at sales, customer support, etc. 3. As other people have said, look to see if it's really the whole industry, or just the current situation you're in. I've found a lot of differences in culture/people/day-to-day work just by moving teams, let alone companies. Talk to friends and see if things are different for them at other companies. Talk to friends in different jobs completely. See what resonates with you.

Hope that helps and again, don't worry about age! Pivoting at 30 will feel like the very start of your career when you think back at 60 or 70.

I guess this is a personal / personality / enjoyment match. Become a teacher, work for a nonprofit, or help government improve.

https://www.codeforamerica.org

> hate the people

TBH, I hate arrogant, know-it-all--know-nothing, filter-bubble screen addicts, narcissistic, spineless, socially-transactional "networking" and "hooking-up," smarmy or boring, psychopathic, self-promoting, other-sabotaging, horrid yuppies who tend to grow out of corporations like weeds. Cool people or GTFO.

> the culture

I'm curious. What is it that you hate? Is it a belief system, attitude, or way of doing things?

> etc.

What does this comprise?

> But I can’t afford it: not the monetary cost, not the time cost. If I could magically pull tens of thousands of dollars out of my ass tomorrow maybe,

I would cut back on discretionary expenses and prioritize education/career development.

> or if I wouldn’t be well into my 30s by the time I finished, it would be a different situation.

Might be some covert age shame / ageism going on. You know your life isn't over until you actually die, right? There are people in their 60's, 70's, and 80's who finish college degrees.

> Even then it’s unheard to go from software to anything I’d be interested in.

Why? You can do whatever you want. DLR became an EMT for a while (might've been a stunt, but who knows or cares?).

I'll add that you are not even middle-aged, and people do all kinds of crazy things even after they are middle-aged. They move to Mexico and run surfboard shops. They go to Antarctica and drive trucks around a frozen camp. You can start a new career! "Well into your 30s" isn't all that old, speaking as someone who definitely is.

If you could find the resources, and at the risk of sounding cliche, it may be worth talking to someone. It can really help to have a trained therapist in your corner. You're facing real challenges, and you sound like you're also feeling a lot of despair and trapped feelings. Processing those feelings well is perhaps the most important part of navigating your sticky situation.

"Well into your 30s" isn't particularly old, and definitely not compared to how long you're probably going to live. If going back to school will help you to be happy, then do it.

These days, the tradesmen are the invisible millionaires. In the time it takes to get another degree you would be fully qualified and on the way to being an independent contractor.

A programming YouTuber "bisqwit" has quit his job as a programmer and now drives a bus. Judging by his content, which I highly recommend, he is still passionate about code, he just prefers a day job that requires less thinking.

Closer to me, a friend of mine was a project manager and in his 30s switched to photography (mostly wedding), and he is quite successful, his style is about capturing emotions. He found that the software industry, and office work in general was dehumanizing.

Another friend, again in his 30s took advantage of the fact his company does both software and mechanical engineering to switch from one to the other. Less pay, because of the relative lack of experience, but he is going back up. He preferred to work with tangible things. It is the opposite change from a lot of old devs who switched from traditional engineering to software.

There are thousands of stories like that.

Nothing good comes from forcing yourself to do something you hate. Even if you're succesful it probably won't be worth it in the end, and given how much you hate it you're probably not going to be succesful at it (its basically impossible to succed at something you hate).

It sounds like you feel trapped. Consider talking to a therapist. They can help you come up with a plan to slowly make changes in your life to make it more into whatever it is you want it to be.

You can do it in this thread.