I got way into eastern spirituality in my 20's, taoism especially. Not a religion, more like a way of life.
Taoists believe that the spirit and the body connect through breathing because it is both a involuntary and voluntary action at the same time.
Now that you're thinking about it, you're probably personally controlling your breath, where before you clicked into this comment section it was just happening naturally.
I read several books, starting with one written by a Westerner and the later ones that were over a millenia old. All focused on all sorts breathing exercises.
Even during love making, controlled measured breathing. Centering yourself, focusing your attention/sensory tools inwards rather than the outside world.
From my limited experience, I'd say if you're having issues with focus it is a great tool to have.
If you want some book recommendations I can give them, just ask. I don't want people to think I'm here to market anything.
Learning the Wim Hof breathing method changed my life for the better. And this is not meant as an advertisement for his business; you can find the same technique (with or without branding) for free everywhere online. I highly, highly recommend trying it out.
Whenever I feel scatter-brained, lack focus or creativity, when I'm feeling down, (or just feel like it) ... this is my go-to method. ~20 minutes of controlled, intermittent hypoxia. Not to mention it's an excellent "tool" to have in psychologically and/or physically stressful times, such as after an accident and being in a hospital (speaking from experience).
If he manages to popularize something that is highly useful for people and costs nothing to do, how is he a joke? I'm sure 99% of the people are aware that Wim Hof didn't invent therapeutic breathing.
I'm torn on this comment. The guy has done some amazing things with what he's learned and he has helped a lot of people. He also went many many years on this angle and only recently hit the big time. But yes, he didn't invent or discover these things, he repackaged them.
I know what you are saying and I understand why you are getting downvoted. I dont know about Wim Hof but I hope he has preserved the whole spirit of yoga and not just cherry picked a few techniques. Yoga works on a much deeper level than just curing ADHD if done in the right ambience. Even a moderate yoga practitioner raises and expands their consciousness from oneself to being coextensive with everyone and everything.
Thats probably the reason why the author of this comment feels that it is far better going to the source rather than cherry picking a few practices.
I have a big yoga chart on my wall. It shows that Yoga has been split and changed and derived from and iterated from for many many years. Seems like a bit of a joke to suggest that this specific iteration (if it even is that) is less valid simply due to a name that is geographically different.
Seconded. For reference, Wim Hof is derivative of Tummo, which is quite an old technique and it's easy to find examples of how to practice. But like you said it is pretty easy to get the basics of Wim Hof free online without subscribing to his program.
I felt the same, so I eased into it. Personally I didn't find it a magical cure.
If I said anything has a pronounced effect on sleep restfulness or concentration it's been whole plant based food which I tried incorporating in my diet more after watching Forks over Knives.
I still eat the occasional meat and cheese, but I found especially useful to replace dinner with WPBF. I naturally, i.e. without alarm, wake up after 6-7h of sleep instead of 9-10h, and I feel much more awake during the day.
I think it's mostly that if you eat heavy (greasy, meaty, cheesy) food in the evening your digestive system is so busy you can't sleep properly.
I would say the effect is much larger than cutting out alcohol, even though that's of course also helpful.
There are millions of proponents of yoga today. Many have combined various yoga techniques into different packages and made huge businesses out of it (Moksha Yoga, Bikram yoga, Isha foundation etc.)
In doing so, each business has preserved the spirit and ambience of yoga. We are all truly enriched by theses business. There is nothing wrong with promoting yoga. Yoga is not patented / trademarked to India. It belongs to the whole world.
I don't know about Wim Hof but I hope that he preserves the spirit and the ambience of yoga while imparting the knowledge and also cites references and gives credit where it is due. Yoga works on a much deeper level than just curing ADHD if done in the right ambience. Even a moderate yoga practitioner raises and expands their consciousness from oneself to being coextensive with everyone and everything.
Wim hof seems derivative of some yogic breathing practices that have existed for a while. I have learned one of them (and then another one at a later stage in my life for migraines) and can vouch for good long term effects for either one, they are:
1) Sudarshan Kriya by Art of Living foundation
2) Shambhavi kriya by Isha foundation
IMO both of these are better integrated with pranayam.
Valid comment but take a week and learn Wim Hof breathing and among the other benefits just see what it can do for your max pushup score. Most people nearly double their result which is extraordinary.
Sure. I'll even be sure to follow it up with some Lavender essential oils and a dilution of Arnica Montana.
Snark aside, your anecdotal endorsement of this breathing technique could give some Homeopaths a run for their money. Might want to ease up on the fanatical tone of your pitch.
I only suggested you take five minutes a day over the course of a week to try it to give you something real and objective to consider for less effort than you've already put into this thread. The breathing technique is all over the web and YouTube for free.
Also, this way of breathing isn't something you do continuously. It's just an exercise you do when you want to realize the benefits. Maybe a couple times a day if you are keen.
The guy climbs mountains in just his underwear and shorts, can ward off a cold using his mind and this way of breathing, held the world records for distance under ice and sitting submerged in a tub of ice water. He teaches others to do these things very quickly. Women want him and men want to be him. I'm still not being fanatical ok? This guy is the real deal.
He learned a few things and developed some of the mildest "magic powers". That's nice, but let's not go overboard. He's basically another foolish Westerner importing and repackaging the least interesting parts of an ancient and potent body of knowledge.
In re: "magic powers": The word is "siddhi".
> Siddhis (Sanskrit: सिद्धि siddhi; fulfillment, accomplishment) are material, paranormal, supernatural, or otherwise magical powers, abilities, and attainments that are the products of yogic advancement through sādhanās such as meditation and yoga.[1] The term ṛddhi (Pali: iddhi, "psychic powers") is often used interchangeably in Buddhism.
Nobody is claiming he's special or that he invented this, especially him.
And yeah these benefits may in fact be a side effect and not central to the whole spiritual journey you could go on but that doesn't resonate a lot in the West and probably closes the door to a lot of us if that's how it is first framed.
Going at it this way personally worked as an intro and has made me more receptive to the bigger picture you allude to which is a place I never would have got to without Wim Hof first convincing me to try.
> The guy climbs mountains in just his underwear and shorts, can ward off a cold using his mind and this way of breathing, held the world records for distance under ice and sitting submerged in a tub of ice water. He teaches others to do these things very quickly. Women want him and men want to be him. I'm still not being fanatical ok? This guy is the real deal.
This sounds really fanatical, especially when you say you want to give someone something "real and objective". Real and objective is more than personal experiences and a case study of 1. We need diverse, well-considered studies in a controlled setting.
Seriously, I didn't make a comment about essential oils, fat-only diets or homeopathic dilutes. While you are correct that the same CAN be said for these, you should note that the same WAS NOT SAID BY ME.
I posted regarding spending 5 minutes a day on breathing excersises.
I posted similar. And the only thing I'd caution is don't do the breathing exercise while driving or near water. There's a rare potential to faint if you do it wrong.
And nobody is suggesting to replace existing approaches for ADHD with breathing exercises. It's just another tool to consider and try for focus or physical exertion.
The funny thing is there's lots of credible science with Wim Hof if you care to Google. But what's the point when it's so accessible, harmless and easy to just validate a claim for yourself?
Look, if you can do twenty pushups max then that is a hard fact that won't change much over a week.
Now if through a breathing exercise you can go and pump out 34 that would be extraordinary and something impressive. I'm telling you that this kind of gain is actually possible for you right now if you try it. Go ahead, give it a try and report back.
Your dismissal and snark on the parent is unwarranted. There is quality scientifical evidence that supports there is something to what Hof is doing. A quick google will show that.
For those - I was one - doubting that breathing can have any effect in brain activity, you would be surprised to know that voluntary hyperventilation is a common tool to diagnose epilepsy[1].
My kid went through a battery of tests that included light - no reaction - and hyperventilation - that triggered some jerky movements in his legs and a clear alteration of the EEG readings.
I wonder what criteria they used to measure the improvement in focus. Was it the children themselves saying "yes, I feel more focused now", or was it a test of the children's ability of focus, or something else?
I wonder if the increase in ADHD diagnoses can be tied to school becoming more focused on sitting still in a room for a long period of time. At least for me, I was doing really well in school when classes were ~50 minutes, and some included phsical activity like shop class and home economics. In my junior year of high school, they switched classes to 90 minutes, you took different classes on different days, and none of my classes included physical activities. My grades plummeted after the switch, and I ended up getting diagnosed with ADD when I was struggling with college in my mid-20s.
In part sure but making anyone focus on something they're not naturally interested in in that moment is going to cause inattention that they'll have to fight to focus; it could also easily be food they're eating causing the ADHD as well.
Very similar story here. Received diagnosis + transferred away from 90min block schedule and my grades immediately improved. Also that year, operation for deviated septum due to basketball. I wonder how much of ADHD diagnosis was due to not getting quality sleep at night during informative years.
Speaking as someone with ADHD that is being studied by a big international university- adhd has a huge sleep disorder component. Your septum will have contributed, but generally people with adhd have problems sleeping due to dopamine regulation during the day.
I've had a similar thought: what consequences might there be from years of institutional classroom based learning on human development? Are there similar rates of ADHD in non-institutional learning? How do homeschooled kids, alternative education, or remote bush/tribal people compare?
> “For children with ADHD, as a rule, the part of the brain that is responsible for the regulation of brain activity – the reticular formation – is deficient,” said Sergey Kiselev, head of the Laboratory of Brain and Neurocognitive Development at UrFU, head of the study.
This is news to me, and I'm having trouble finding any good sources that talk about it. Anyone have any suggestions?
Our pediatrician told us that, too, but also said that confirming it with scans costs mid-five-figures (in the US) so nobody actually diagnoses it that way, but instead with surveys and self-evualation and such.
On an aside, I have struggled with reading focus these past few years I have found that when I read I get a jittery panicky feeling like I need to stop and do something else. What seems to help is, when that feeling occurs is to use diaphragmatic breathing and continue to read, my focus is better and the feeling subsides. I am hoping I can retrain myself to focusing like I used to as I loved to read.
Growing up, adults used to say... "Remeber your breathing!" Perhaps they were right :-)
While I absolutely believe that breathing techniques can be beneficial for ADHD (I’ve got it, and our almost-7 y/o daughter does, too), the mechanism posited here seems… questionable.
One region of the brain getting more oxygen? If that were the explanation, surely other regions of the brain would be performing poorly due to insufficient oxygen as well. And further, taking oxygen might be expected to yield improvements. Is any of that the case?
Not so sure about the Yoga (easily subbed with cardio) but I can see breathing exercises helping. That said, I would like to see these kids just having less screen time and more outdoor activity and compare the results to this study.
As someone who used to 'self-medicate'[1] my (then-undiagnosed) ADHD with breathing techniques and Yoga – mostly Hatha and Kundalini Yoga – for 15 years I am - personally - very skeptic of these claims.
Don't get me wrong, I still love breathing techniques and Yoga and practice both on a daily basis.
But I DON'T see how stimulating your nervous system this way will do what ADHD medication actually does: Inhibit dopamine/norephedrine reuptake / increase dopamine/norephedrine secretion.
In other words, in my n-equals-one world, the difference the right medication has made in managing ADHD has been an order of magnitude greater compared to regular, intense and consistent breathing, Yoga and meditation.
I’m in the same boat. I love meditating, and I have noticed positive effects, but it is no comparison to actual medical treatment. I think that meditation extends my capacity for focus in one sitting, but it never helped with the “ugh” factor, the actual push to do things I didn’t want to do.
Medication helps with the latter part. Meditation helps me capitalize on it further.
>But I DON'T see how stimulating your nervous system this way will do what ADHD medication actually does: Inhibit dopamine/norephedrine reuptake / increase dopamine/norephedrine secretion.
Why do you assume thats the only way to mitigate behaviors associated with ADHD?
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[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 121 ms ] threadTaoists believe that the spirit and the body connect through breathing because it is both a involuntary and voluntary action at the same time.
Now that you're thinking about it, you're probably personally controlling your breath, where before you clicked into this comment section it was just happening naturally.
I read several books, starting with one written by a Westerner and the later ones that were over a millenia old. All focused on all sorts breathing exercises.
Even during love making, controlled measured breathing. Centering yourself, focusing your attention/sensory tools inwards rather than the outside world.
From my limited experience, I'd say if you're having issues with focus it is a great tool to have.
If you want some book recommendations I can give them, just ask. I don't want people to think I'm here to market anything.
A link to the free PDF is mentioned in the last paragraph.
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/292570/tao-te-ching...
Has had a significant effect on my life. Do it for 20 minutes before you go to bed and see if you get results in a couple of weeks.
I certainly knew nothing about it until I read this feature article [0][1] and the resources it pointed to.
[0] https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/jul/26/every-b...
[1] HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23962638
Learning the Wim Hof breathing method changed my life for the better. And this is not meant as an advertisement for his business; you can find the same technique (with or without branding) for free everywhere online. I highly, highly recommend trying it out.
Whenever I feel scatter-brained, lack focus or creativity, when I'm feeling down, (or just feel like it) ... this is my go-to method. ~20 minutes of controlled, intermittent hypoxia. Not to mention it's an excellent "tool" to have in psychologically and/or physically stressful times, such as after an accident and being in a hospital (speaking from experience).
You're better going straight to the source: http://www.yogebooks.com/english/atkinson/1903sciencebreath....
Thats probably the reason why the author of this comment feels that it is far better going to the source rather than cherry picking a few practices.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tummo
You can also download the Wim Hof app for free, which has a feature to guide you through the breathing exercise in a more personalized way.
If I said anything has a pronounced effect on sleep restfulness or concentration it's been whole plant based food which I tried incorporating in my diet more after watching Forks over Knives.
I still eat the occasional meat and cheese, but I found especially useful to replace dinner with WPBF. I naturally, i.e. without alarm, wake up after 6-7h of sleep instead of 9-10h, and I feel much more awake during the day.
I think it's mostly that if you eat heavy (greasy, meaty, cheesy) food in the evening your digestive system is so busy you can't sleep properly.
I would say the effect is much larger than cutting out alcohol, even though that's of course also helpful.
I don't know about Wim Hof but I hope that he preserves the spirit and the ambience of yoga while imparting the knowledge and also cites references and gives credit where it is due. Yoga works on a much deeper level than just curing ADHD if done in the right ambience. Even a moderate yoga practitioner raises and expands their consciousness from oneself to being coextensive with everyone and everything.
IMO both of these are better integrated with pranayam.
Not worth reporting.
Totally worth doing a few bigger studies before shouting to the world that we're just not breathing right.
Snark aside, your anecdotal endorsement of this breathing technique could give some Homeopaths a run for their money. Might want to ease up on the fanatical tone of your pitch.
Also, this way of breathing isn't something you do continuously. It's just an exercise you do when you want to realize the benefits. Maybe a couple times a day if you are keen.
The guy climbs mountains in just his underwear and shorts, can ward off a cold using his mind and this way of breathing, held the world records for distance under ice and sitting submerged in a tub of ice water. He teaches others to do these things very quickly. Women want him and men want to be him. I'm still not being fanatical ok? This guy is the real deal.
In re: "magic powers": The word is "siddhi".
> Siddhis (Sanskrit: सिद्धि siddhi; fulfillment, accomplishment) are material, paranormal, supernatural, or otherwise magical powers, abilities, and attainments that are the products of yogic advancement through sādhanās such as meditation and yoga.[1] The term ṛddhi (Pali: iddhi, "psychic powers") is often used interchangeably in Buddhism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhi
The only important thing to know about these magic powers is that they are a distraction.
And yeah these benefits may in fact be a side effect and not central to the whole spiritual journey you could go on but that doesn't resonate a lot in the West and probably closes the door to a lot of us if that's how it is first framed.
Going at it this way personally worked as an intro and has made me more receptive to the bigger picture you allude to which is a place I never would have got to without Wim Hof first convincing me to try.
I know how it is when you find something that works for you and you really want to share it.
FWIW, I see the popularization of these things as a net positive.
This sounds really fanatical, especially when you say you want to give someone something "real and objective". Real and objective is more than personal experiences and a case study of 1. We need diverse, well-considered studies in a controlled setting.
well sure, for vaccine trials maybe. the parent's suggestion is more along the lines of, "give it a try, what could it hurt?"
The same can and has been said for essential oils, fat-only diets, and homeopathic dilutes.
"What can it hurt" is a terrible justification, especially in the field of psychiatric disorders.
"What can it hurt?" Alot.
Seriously, I didn't make a comment about essential oils, fat-only diets or homeopathic dilutes. While you are correct that the same CAN be said for these, you should note that the same WAS NOT SAID BY ME.
I posted regarding spending 5 minutes a day on breathing excersises.
And nobody is suggesting to replace existing approaches for ADHD with breathing exercises. It's just another tool to consider and try for focus or physical exertion.
The funny thing is there's lots of credible science with Wim Hof if you care to Google. But what's the point when it's so accessible, harmless and easy to just validate a claim for yourself?
Now if through a breathing exercise you can go and pump out 34 that would be extraordinary and something impressive. I'm telling you that this kind of gain is actually possible for you right now if you try it. Go ahead, give it a try and report back.
My kid went through a battery of tests that included light - no reaction - and hyperventilation - that triggered some jerky movements in his legs and a clear alteration of the EEG readings.
[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6546426/
I wonder what criteria they used to measure the improvement in focus. Was it the children themselves saying "yes, I feel more focused now", or was it a test of the children's ability of focus, or something else?
Join a meditation retreat! It's not just about helping you awaken your inner kundalini, it'll also mitigate any possible ADHD!
Magnesium deficiency should be part of this discussion.
This is news to me, and I'm having trouble finding any good sources that talk about it. Anyone have any suggestions?
On an aside, I have struggled with reading focus these past few years I have found that when I read I get a jittery panicky feeling like I need to stop and do something else. What seems to help is, when that feeling occurs is to use diaphragmatic breathing and continue to read, my focus is better and the feeling subsides. I am hoping I can retrain myself to focusing like I used to as I loved to read.
Growing up, adults used to say... "Remeber your breathing!" Perhaps they were right :-)
One region of the brain getting more oxygen? If that were the explanation, surely other regions of the brain would be performing poorly due to insufficient oxygen as well. And further, taking oxygen might be expected to yield improvements. Is any of that the case?
Don't get me wrong, I still love breathing techniques and Yoga and practice both on a daily basis.
But I DON'T see how stimulating your nervous system this way will do what ADHD medication actually does: Inhibit dopamine/norephedrine reuptake / increase dopamine/norephedrine secretion.
In other words, in my n-equals-one world, the difference the right medication has made in managing ADHD has been an order of magnitude greater compared to regular, intense and consistent breathing, Yoga and meditation.
[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=interleave
Medication helps with the latter part. Meditation helps me capitalize on it further.
Why do you assume thats the only way to mitigate behaviors associated with ADHD?