I hate capitalism, am I alone?

9 points by Layke1123 ↗ HN
I hate the idea of for profit. It seems like society is trying to measure everything and reduce it down to a price. I watched a video today of an economist advising someone that if they wanted a home, they should open an OnlyFans to increase their revenue. What kind of fucked society do we live in where this is normal? This seriously can't be the best system for everyone involved.

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Do you really hate it though? What other alternatives have you even experienced to be able to say that? Also, you are posting in a tech forum, which is perhaps the epitome of capitalism.

I don't like businesses focusing on profit so much either. I'm not sure if it's sustainable to focus on something else instead. Maybe when business ignore profit they crash and burn. I'm not sure because I don't like to think about profit, I'm a technician/specialist first, and find finances very boring. I would think small business could accomplish this, by staying small and focusing on the product and not growth. However the past year has definitely favored large corporations that could handle the lockdowns.

I really do. It doesn't fix anything, only makes problems worse. Who cares that I can get a burrito delivered with a button press when people are starving and inequality is only rising?

Why does it not fix these problems and instead propagate them?

Well, in theory the people starving are not under proper capitalism. Usually they're under some corrupt government that doesn't let small businesses thrive. You can't open businesses in those poor countries like you can in the US. Think about all the immigrants that are fighting to come to the US, and many of them end up having their own small business (many of which unfortunately had to close during last year, but that's a different matter).

I don't disagree about the rampant inequality at the global scale, but the solution is not clear and definitely not simple, especially when factoring different nations, different peoples and cultures and styles of living. Ultimately capitalism is solving some problems, and I'm not sure that the problems it is not solving, are the ones it is creating. In other words, maybe these problems exist despite capitalism, and we need systems on top of it, not a replacement.

"In theory"...

Yet the whole world is suffering under capitalism.

Is it ALL under capitalism? The 20th century was an on-going battle to see what political system would take over, and capitalism took the lead, but it's NOT because it took over, but rather that the other systems collapsed under their own incompetence. Long story short, capitalism is the only known system that has at least produced some wealth, granted in the process also produced greater inequality, but again, I'm not convinced those problems are entirely due to capitalism, and it could well be the case that more wealth will always produce inequality until we find a new complementary system that doesn't attempt to undo capitalism and instead works alongside it.
But nothing has come along. Nothing is getting fixed. We can't even pass infrastructure bills in this country because half of it is fuckimg idiotic.
There are non-capitalist business models. Employee-owned ones, like many "bootstrapped" ones featured on this website.
Those are also capitalist.
There are no capitalists, so how is it capitalist? Workers "owning the means of production" is famously compatible with non-capitalist business models.
Anyone who puts their own capital into some enterprise is a capitalist. It doesn’t require a particular job title or upbringing. Whether it’s two people working out of a garage and feeding themselves from their own savings in order to build a new business, or employees of a business who buy the business from its former owner, it’s all capitalism.

Socialism and Communism were all about turning over all forms of ownership over to the government, and then allowing the government to decide who gets what and who is allowed to work where. In the end that puts all of the wealth and decision–making power into the hands of a single autocratic leader, no matter what the propaganda might claim.

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This is incorrect. A capitalist is someone who puts money into the business and expects profit out of it without doing the work. Profit is the difference between the net value generated by the workers and the amount paid out to the workers.
Lol. Your definition of capitalism is worse than useless. For one thing, profit is your revenue minus _all_ of your expenses, not merely what you pay your workers. Material, utilities, rent/mortgage or other interest, training, bookkeeping. overhead, taxes, everything. Different business owners will decide to spend that profit in different ways. Some will use it to expand the business (Amazon, for example), others will pay dividends to shareholders (Google, Microsoft, and most other big companies), others will simply save it for a rainy day (Apple, it would seem). Usually it’s some mix of all of these and others.

Capitalism is simply about ownership. If you can start your own business, then you are a capitalist. If the government prohibits it, then you do not live in a free market. An owner can also be a worker, or else how could a new business get started?

Here’s a practical example: I get my hair cut at Dimaggio’s down the street from me, and the owner cuts hair right alongside his employees every day. He opened that shop decades ago, pays the bills, does the bookkeeping, opens the doors every morning, closes them at night. He is a capitalist, and he is a worker.

Obviously I’ve never looked at his books, but I imagine that he pays himself a salary and that the business has been saving most of what was left over after that, since it’s been a hard year and he hasn’t gone out of business. I think he might own the little building he’s in, and that he rents out the other half of it, but aside from that he hasn’t expanded the business.

At least I recognize that there's a difference between a business model and a system of government. In the context of this thread, owners are less likely to burn out workers and pursue profit at all (human) cost if the workers are the owners.
I think that will be true only if all the workers (Owners) are content with the rate of growth & profit and even ready to accept losses in certain situations to avoid burnout.
I think you're correct. Look at Bill Gates total inability to function as a human. Even the so called winners are destroyed by this process of capital.
How has he not functioned as a human?

He's been successful, given tremendous amount of money and support to the 3rd world, and VS Code wouldn't have existed without Microsoft :)

It looks pretty bad from where we are all at. I dont think dying would be worse at this point.
You don't think dying would be worse than living in a capitalist society? Take a few deep breaths and try to get some perspective, because your current position is really disconnected from reality.

In reality, capitalism has produced more stuff for people to use and enjoy than any other system, ever. (I will admit that it may not do as well as we like at spreading that stuff around. But focus on fixing that, not on breaking the system that produces the stuff that so many of us live on.)

But thats just it. It's working for you. Not others. And increasingly so.
Please get help.

Harming yourself won't solve any problems.

Whatever problems you are facing are temporary. Things will get better.

Oh sorry I understand that sounds dark. I'm not suicidal to be sure. There are other ways of go out before that.

It's just really how people my age feel looking at the world. We wanted things to be better and they aren't. War in Israel, pandemics where half the population can't even agree we are in one, political instability, the constant pressure to afford the life our parents had even though they had it easier. It's just a lot for our generation to deal with.

Here's the problem: a lot of people in the 1st world thinks things are getting worse, when in reality the world is improving for the less well off. Think extreme poverty, child mortality, health care, etc. Some details here:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190111-seven-reasons-wh...

This is down to globalization and capatalism, which does sometimes feel like a race to the bottom but actually seems like it's working.

It isn't working. Declining birth rates, sky high debt, environmental disasters, political upheaval. What in the world are you looking through to give you a rose colored view of the world?
> This seriously can't be the best system for everyone involved.

Well its because the general idea of going to university, leaving with debt, getting a job to pay off those debts whilst borrowing more for that car, home and healthcare, etc is now seen today as the great scam highlighted by the pandemic.

It would require having multiple sources of revenue like having 3 jobs + going into youtube / twitch ad monetization, investing in stocks or crypto and your own business to increase your income.

Even if you have huge profits from this, you will still be taxed to death anyway (By being on the highest tax group).

Yup, all of life has been reduced to a number. And that number is how much money you can put in some investor's pocket. Derek Sivers says he talked to a taxi driver who preferred the mob to the beancounters. The mob didn't care what you did as long as they got their cut. But the beancounters would relentlessly optimize the amount of money they could squeeze out of the businesses.
It’s not the best system for everyone, but it’s the best system we have. When other systems prove practical at smaller scales, there will be pressure to change. But of all the economic experiments we’ve run in history, capitalism is the only one that produces decent amounts of freedom and economic growth.
That's absolutely not true.
What’s wrong with having an OnlyFans?
The fact that it's general advice to everyone trying to by a home. Or do you seriously think everyone SHOULD have an OnlyFans in order to own a home?
This is not standard advice for anyone looking to buy a home. Any loan officer or broker advising this is doing their job incredibly poorly.
When Star Trek became a reality in 2066 they initially had a problem with hoarders and misers overusing the replicators. The hoarders would fill their place with TVs and microwaves until there was not an inch to enter. The misers would make their houses collapse - floors can not take solid gold stacked 9 feet high. It was only the U235 and Pu239 cutouts that interdicted fissile production. All was solved with the dereplicator - which replaced the need for toiletss as well - yeah, no toilets in Star Trek in case you never noticed....
This was be far the worst reply that did absolutely nothing to provide insight to the situation.
Where are you based, and what are you watching?

I'll agree that there is too much emphasis on profit at many companies at the moment. Food delivery companies aren't making the world a better place, they're making it worse with the increase in single use packaging. They're taking an outsized amount of money, forcing the restaurants to give up some of their profit, and as a result, the some restaurants just can't continue.

But there are also companies that are doing great things, and there are non-profits also doing great things.

Walk around your local grocery store, and realize that much of what is there exists because of capitalism. Do you have a favorite product or service? It probably exists because of capitalism.

Does that mean that everything needs to be done to maximize profit? No, that's just pure greed, and a major issue in society today. But though capitalism can feed into greed, it doesn't have to be that way. Perhaps it's an opportunity for you to find a tribe with the same beliefs as you and find a better way to have an impact.

I've tried. I've failed to find those tribes in America. They don't exist.
At the base of all economic systems is the answer to the question, "How do you get people to work together for the betterment of all?"

For most of Time calories have been very expensive so we are conditioned to do the least amount of work possible for the most calories. Most economic systems involve some kind of force to get humans to work and work together. Capitalism seems to be the best we have developed. We like to think that we are happy to work for the betterment of humanity but the reality is that that only goes so far. Eventually work becomes a chore and we want to give up. Capitalism works because it hacks people's self interest to work for everyone.

Capitalism has problems but it's the best we have. The best we can do, for now, is to fix the problems that crop up and continue.

Perhaps you should take a look at things from a different perspective. Here is a personal account of life inside the Soviet Union that you might get something out of: https://archive.org/details/ViktorSuvorovTheLiberatorsMyLife...

It’s a little on the long side, but I’ll quote from near the end of the introduction:

    Towards evening, we finished the job. Everyone took delivery of
    his final load of [fertilizer], but this time no one carried it
    off to the river, but instead to his own kolkhoz. It was then
    relayed to Moscow that everything was going well and that this
    year's harvest would be a record, thanks to the Regional
    Committee's First Secretary. Moscow promptly replied with a
    congratulatory telegram to the First Secretary and to all workers
    of the Region. And that was that.

    Late that night, I delivered one and a half tons of the fertilizer
    to the kolkhoz and reported to the Chairman that I had fulfilled
    the task ahead of time. He thanked me but did not go into
    detail. Everything had been clear to him from the very
    beginning. He had long been accustomed to the fact that, whenever
    the Communist Party issues instructions, these invariably end in a
    way no one wishes to remember.

    'Where shall I put this one and a half tons?' I asked.

    'Keep them yourself! If necessary, I could produce record harvests
    without fertilizers. But what's the point?'

    And that was that. I poured the liquid over my own tiny private
    plot. It proved an unpardonable mistake. Apparently, there was too
    much fertilizer for my tiny area of ground and I applied it at the
    wrong time. In May, when all the neighbouring kitchen gardens were
    producing strong shoots mine was barren. I was horrified. What
    would I eat during the winter? I was not going to become a soldier
    until the following spring: so how was I to live until then? The
    money I would receive for my work at the kolkhoz would be hardly
    enough for two months of very frugal existence. The peasant's only
    hope is his private plot which is not much bigger than the palm of
    his hand. And if nothing grows on that - what then?

    I had to make some urgent decisions. But what? I could not run
    away from the kolkhoz: under socialism a peasant has no right to a
    passport, although everybody else has an internal passport. As a
    result of this simple restriction, a peasant cannot live in a
    town, cannot marry a town girl or stay in a hotel. Travelling on a
    plane is also forbidden. Who will let you board an aircraft
    without a passport?  Maybe you are a criminal?

    Don't think it is just a Soviet communist caprice, either. It is a
    vital necessity. If you are trying to establish material equality
    among the inhabitants of any country, you must introduce similar
    measures against the peasants. If you make all people equal, there
    will be mass migration of peasants into towns, where the working
    day is limited, where one need not work on rest days and holidays,
    and where one can have a holiday in summer. But, if all the
    peasants go to live in towns, your state of universal equality
    will perish from hunger. And, in order to prevent that state of
    affairs, you will be obliged to revert to the free market system,
    that is to capitalism, or else keep the peasants in their villages
    by force, by barbed wire, guard-dogs, threats and the introduction
    of special anti-peasant legislation.

    I was a convinced supporter of the material equality of all
    mankind and therefore was prepared to spend all my life without an
    internal passport, which means never flying in an aircraft, never
    staying at an hotel and never marrying a town girl. But, in
    compensation, we would have equality. There would...
Spoken like someone who never lived a day in Soviet Russia.