Every hipster, open-space, max-collaboration co-working space I've been to, has had such a box/room. What am I missing that makes Amazon's case so special?
Outside of the concept fitting better into an ironic hell than a real life workplace? Last I heard Amazon warehouse workers barely had enough time to take a piss, how are they supposed to even use this without getting fired the next day?
Because it’s a coffin sized isolation box placed in the middle of a warehouse as a PR stunt for a company known for high pressure work for their low wage employees.
Will you be fired if you go to the booth too often? I mean if you are stressed about work maybe you want to unionize or have a complaint about work and so maybe should be fired. Not for using the booth of course but for poor performance in your job suddenly.
The box is soundproof, and you are allowed to discuss unions with yourself while in it. There's no echo listening in either, in order to maximize wellness effects.
Corporate America is spending big bucks on various mental (and physical ) wellness programs. I wonder know if it is a fad or if companies are seeing results. Or they are just trying to keep up with the Jones.
Either that, or the research has been done -- privately by industry -- determining the mental tolls that modern workplaces take on people, and companies are planning to have moats ready to push back on and mitigate future litigation. Also cost saving, to your point, but from a slightly different angle.
(I'm fully supportive of people seeking wellness programs and therapy, but I squint and become cynical when employers offer it themselves, because the long-term alignment of interests isn't always clear)
Someone (I believe it was a comment in HN) recently said that the way we have incentivized corporations and have structured the regulations around them, corporations have no choice but to behave as giant sociopaths.
While I don’t know if regulations are to blame or what their contribution this is quite true. Corporate policies are all designed around one thing - reducing litigation risk, wellness, health and safety, “ethics”, inclusivity etc. training/policies are all designed to cover their asses rather than actually improve outcomes.
Now whether this is purely an outcome of the regulatory landscape and how the legal system works or the outcome of simply natural selection for large entities regardless of the environment I don’t know.
Anyone that ever was in a position of a people manager in any corporate entity even a relatively small one knows exactly just how poorly these policies are structured from an individual perspective.
I manage people right now and if I see someone struggling whether it’s on a personal level or professional one my options are severely limited.
If I have a direct report that is clearly struggling with some personal issues taking them out for a coffee and asking them about what is going on would pretty much be against company policies and could put my position and the company at risk. The best I could do is essentially send out a refresher on some mental health help line that the company uses anything else opens me to a liability.
Interesting. Last year I moved from a large corporation with well defined policies to a startup. The options you mentioned are fortunately very much on the table for me. If someone's struggling with something at home for example, I could literally send them some sort of help, within a reasonable budget of course. It's a win-win: they're happy, I'm happy and more often than not, it translates to higher motivation once the crisis is over. I'd hate to see those options be policified away one day.
It’s a win win when things don’t go wrong, the litigation environment means that anyone taking offense or claim that they have been discriminated poses a pretty big risk to a big enough company.
It also assumes that managers are always competent enough and have sufficiently good soft skills to handle these sort of situations since involving HR is always “against the employee” as HR is there to protect the company.
Unions might solve this issue but sadly unions aren’t immune to the same corruption that plagues any sufficiently large and political organization so the union becomes self serving rather than serving the employees.
Some countries have better solutions like having an employee board in every company but in large corps these tend to be plagued by corruption as well.
Amazon can't be a victim. It's an entity made of people. Although the end result is horrifying, I can totally see how certain incentives (including being several steps removed from warehouse workers) can turn otherwise decent people into bean counters.
This is the gist of the 2003 documentary "The Corporation" - if corporations have the rights of legal 'persons', what sort of the 'persons' are they?
The film attempts to compare the way corporations are systematically compelled to behave with what it claims are the DSM-IV's symptoms of psychopathy, e.g., the callous disregard for the feelings of other people, the incapacity to maintain human relationships, the reckless disregard for the safety of others, the deceitfulness (continual lying to deceive for profit), the incapacity to experience guilt, and the failure to conform to social norms and respect the law.
Not the best example, but tax code. Rather than a flat % tax that all corporate entities must adhere to, there are thousands of pages of tax code, with hundreds of ways to 'optimize' hidden within them. A corporation would consider itself to be 'not doing the best it can', if it doesn't utilize (one may also read that as "exploit") those optimizations ("loopholes") while its competitors are doing so.
>No popular idea ever has a single origin. But the idea that the sole purpose of a firm is to make money for its shareholders got going in a major way with an article by Milton Friedman in the New York Times on September 13, 1970.
I do like Amazon, but they seem very afraid of unionization, and seem to be going overboard on what a spectacular caring employer they are, along with caring about the enviornment too.
I noticed millions are going to be spent on electric delivery trucks. Why do I fear our taxes will be going to their marketing hootenanny in forms of credits?
Not everyone's home is a center of calm and might even be the source of stress. An employee might be going through a tough relationship patch, a difficult time with their kids, have a family member staying for a long period of time. Moves like this might genuinely help some employees
Or they could just spend some time literally anywhere else after work, like visit a park. Though that may be difficult after a 12 hour shift.
A company that indirectly punishes people for bathroom breaks can only end up abusing such initiative. If this booth is ever widely rolled out, it will eventually be used to weed out "low performers".
Although it looks pretty stupid, I do have to wonder at the level of condemnation it seems to be getting. I'm going to wait until I see a reason it is a bad idea before deciding what I think. "It is a small box" doesn't strike me as a reason.
The idea of having a mental breakdown and being advised to spend 3 minutes in a phone booth in the middle of a warehouse scrolling through advice on how not to completely lose it so that you can continue to functionally carry out your peonage is hilariously horrifying.
I know my expectations of worker rights are skewed by living in a country that isn't America, but that's what annual leave/sick leave/mental health leave is for. If, after all that, work is still unbearable, there's a bigger problem with that specific workplace.
I agree, but if you're feeling tired or overwhelmed, taking a day off is in everyone's best interest, and I don't think standing in a vertical coffin for a few minutes is an adequate alternative.
Why would this be presented as an alternative to taking a day off if people are tired and overwhelmed? I don't think it is for people who have mental health problems - on the basis that it wouldn't help, so Amazon wouldn't waste money on it if that was what it was for.
That sounds more like a break room, a wellness room reads tocmr as more of an escape than somewhere to kick back to. I do agree that they could do more though!
Why is this as an alternative to a day off? Why can't it be a 15/30 minute respite from a workplace. I konw the nearest amazon fulfilment centre to me is _enormous_, and if you took a 30 minute break you likely wouldn't even make it to your car, never mind actually clear the grounds, if you wanted to go to a park.
It might be my personal opinion but I never really felt fully recovered after a 15/30 minute respite when I felt the need to get away from work.
> never mind actually clear the grounds, if you wanted to go to a park.
Now adding parks to these centers sounds like an idea. Of course most penny pincers would scream at the amount of money that would cost compared to a suicide booth.
I guess the ugly look is part of it... "we set up wellness booths but they don't get used very often, it means our employees are happy!".
God damn, it must be like the Stanford prison there, with the white collar workers not treating the blue collar ones as humans any more. But maybe I'm extrapolating from a conjecture.
Some middle-manager was tasked to do "something" about employee wellness, and discovered soon enough theres little they can do without will from very high up in the chain of command.
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[ 4.9 ms ] story [ 138 ms ] threadThe Amazon version has the nickname 'despair closet' [1].
[1] https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/mental-healt...
(I'm fully supportive of people seeking wellness programs and therapy, but I squint and become cynical when employers offer it themselves, because the long-term alignment of interests isn't always clear)
Now whether this is purely an outcome of the regulatory landscape and how the legal system works or the outcome of simply natural selection for large entities regardless of the environment I don’t know.
Anyone that ever was in a position of a people manager in any corporate entity even a relatively small one knows exactly just how poorly these policies are structured from an individual perspective.
I manage people right now and if I see someone struggling whether it’s on a personal level or professional one my options are severely limited.
If I have a direct report that is clearly struggling with some personal issues taking them out for a coffee and asking them about what is going on would pretty much be against company policies and could put my position and the company at risk. The best I could do is essentially send out a refresher on some mental health help line that the company uses anything else opens me to a liability.
It also assumes that managers are always competent enough and have sufficiently good soft skills to handle these sort of situations since involving HR is always “against the employee” as HR is there to protect the company.
Unions might solve this issue but sadly unions aren’t immune to the same corruption that plagues any sufficiently large and political organization so the union becomes self serving rather than serving the employees.
Some countries have better solutions like having an employee board in every company but in large corps these tend to be plagued by corruption as well.
Are you trying to say Amazon is the victim here, having no other choice other than inflicting this dystopian nonsense on their workers ?
The film attempts to compare the way corporations are systematically compelled to behave with what it claims are the DSM-IV's symptoms of psychopathy, e.g., the callous disregard for the feelings of other people, the incapacity to maintain human relationships, the reckless disregard for the safety of others, the deceitfulness (continual lying to deceive for profit), the incapacity to experience guilt, and the failure to conform to social norms and respect the law.
edit: surprisingly positive review of the film in The Economist - https://www.economist.com/business/2004/05/06/the-lunatic-yo...
Corporations are active participants in the creation of the regulatory state. They are not victims here.
>No popular idea ever has a single origin. But the idea that the sole purpose of a firm is to make money for its shareholders got going in a major way with an article by Milton Friedman in the New York Times on September 13, 1970.
I do like Amazon, but they seem very afraid of unionization, and seem to be going overboard on what a spectacular caring employer they are, along with caring about the enviornment too.
I noticed millions are going to be spent on electric delivery trucks. Why do I fear our taxes will be going to their marketing hootenanny in forms of credits?
Amazon could make it so the pay and working hours they offer their employees allowed them to spend more undisturbed time there.
I suppose wellness chambers are cheaper, though.
A company that indirectly punishes people for bathroom breaks can only end up abusing such initiative. If this booth is ever widely rolled out, it will eventually be used to weed out "low performers".
It might work well.
It's akin to Foxconn's suicide nets.
I doubt that is what they are for.
It isn't at all clear this reflects bad workplace conditions. It could be innovative.
This is unacceptable.
> never mind actually clear the grounds, if you wanted to go to a park.
Now adding parks to these centers sounds like an idea. Of course most penny pincers would scream at the amount of money that would cost compared to a suicide booth.
The hard part is factoring out/in the core philosophy of those metrics.
Like designing a target and then designing all your arrows to meet it.
Don't forget, everyone:
"Work hard, increase production, avoid accidents, and be happy."
[1]: THX 1183, https://youtu.be/U0YkPnwoYyE
If they were serious about that it would have comfy sofas and billiard tables or something.
Worker 1: "Where's Jerry?"
Worker 2: "Oh, he's in the booth again .."
Worker 1: "What a loser .."
God damn, it must be like the Stanford prison there, with the white collar workers not treating the blue collar ones as humans any more. But maybe I'm extrapolating from a conjecture.
This is art. You will hear a buzzer. When you hear the buzzer, stare at the art. BUZZ