It's remarkable that this is only coming out now. Had 42K people not shown up to vote last November it's possible we wouldn't have found this out until 2025...or ever.
I'm a fairly pro-Apple guy, love my Apple products. Had an Android user try and argue with me "so much for Apple security". Taking a pragmatic approach to this, it's hard to blame Apple for following the gag order / law, albeit corrupt law. They apparently only gave up meta data. It would be interesting to know exactly what they got or didn't (the DOJ).
Isn't Adam Schiff the representative who subpoenaed ATT for the phone records of fellow representative Devin Nunes? I don't remember anyone describing that as an "egregious assault on our democracy," except for maybe one opinion piece in the WSJ. Weird how the rhetoric changes when the shoe is on the other foot.
He's also the guy who spent four years selectively leaking to the NYT so he could use their articles to justify opening investigations. Oh, and he said he had seen evidence of Russian collusion, implied the President was a Russian agent, etc.
I'm having trouble conjuring sympathy for this guy.
The substance of this comment seems to be “Adam Schiff did bad stuff (too?)”. Whataboutism isn’t particularly interesting, and I don’t think sympathy or lack thereof is a useful lens for this particular topic.
Did Apple do something wrong here? Did the DOJ? What can be done to prevent, or at least expose this type of behavior in the future?
Edit: added a missing word and fixed quotes. As an aside, techbros clarifying comment below is exactly why I love this site.
My (meta-)point is that the answer to this question better be the same as it is to the question of “Did ATT do something wrong?” If it’s not, then the person answering is either intellectually dishonest or a hypocrite.
Personally, my answer – which is the same to both – is that if the company followed a legal process, they didn’t do something “wrong.” I don’t like the trend of relying on corporations to take moral positions. If the subpoena is legal, but ethically wrong, then the problem is with the legal process, not the company complying with it. It shouldn’t be Apple or ATT’s job to protest against a valid legal subpoena.
It’s the job of congress to fix the legislation that allows for this surveillance. And btw, it’s worth noting that they aren’t trying very hard to do this. I wonder why?
If a company wants to protest this system, the best thing they can do is not collect the information being subpoenaed in the first place. Take Signal for example. When they receive a subpoena, they don’t need to protest it, because they can just say they never actually had the information under subpoena.
Is Apple doing something wrong by collecting information they can read with or without a subpoena? Well, that’s for you – the market – to decide. Vote with your wallet. Personally IMO Apple is the least-bad option for privacy, so long as your threat model doesn’t involve any nation-state government.
13 comments
[ 3.8 ms ] story [ 44.5 ms ] thread* https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/10/us/politics/justice-depar...
* https://archive.is/QYJnw
There's been a rash of inexplicably flagged topics lately. Would someone please explain?
It should remembered that good encryption protects everyone, regardless of who is in power and who is in Opposition.
You don't plan for when things go right.
He's also the guy who spent four years selectively leaking to the NYT so he could use their articles to justify opening investigations. Oh, and he said he had seen evidence of Russian collusion, implied the President was a Russian agent, etc.
I'm having trouble conjuring sympathy for this guy.
Did Apple do something wrong here? Did the DOJ? What can be done to prevent, or at least expose this type of behavior in the future?
Edit: added a missing word and fixed quotes. As an aside, techbros clarifying comment below is exactly why I love this site.
My (meta-)point is that the answer to this question better be the same as it is to the question of “Did ATT do something wrong?” If it’s not, then the person answering is either intellectually dishonest or a hypocrite.
Personally, my answer – which is the same to both – is that if the company followed a legal process, they didn’t do something “wrong.” I don’t like the trend of relying on corporations to take moral positions. If the subpoena is legal, but ethically wrong, then the problem is with the legal process, not the company complying with it. It shouldn’t be Apple or ATT’s job to protest against a valid legal subpoena.
It’s the job of congress to fix the legislation that allows for this surveillance. And btw, it’s worth noting that they aren’t trying very hard to do this. I wonder why?
If a company wants to protest this system, the best thing they can do is not collect the information being subpoenaed in the first place. Take Signal for example. When they receive a subpoena, they don’t need to protest it, because they can just say they never actually had the information under subpoena.
Is Apple doing something wrong by collecting information they can read with or without a subpoena? Well, that’s for you – the market – to decide. Vote with your wallet. Personally IMO Apple is the least-bad option for privacy, so long as your threat model doesn’t involve any nation-state government.
> It’s the job of congress to fix the legislation
Absolutely agreed
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/04/us/politics/times-reporte...