It sounds like there’s no evidence that the committer committed suicide and this post is based on an assumption that ve did. I think the author’s heart is in the right place and the mental health advice is helpful to all, but it seems off to assume suicide without some confirmation from family or friends.
I had a friend who committed suicide and the friend and her family did not want the cause of death public.
The US cause of death is private and would be considered a privacy violation if disclosed by a healthcare provider.
Perhaps in the future, not speculating or disclosing non-public cause of death would still be possible as part of a helpful article.
I apologize if I misread and the cause was publicly known. Even though the contributor’s real name wasn’t used in the article, this can be really sensitive and painful if ever linked to the individual.
I talked privately with others, and am fairly sure suicide was the cause of death. There were attempts in the past that I was unaware of until right before I wrote this article. I don't see what your point really is with this comment, but I expect just as much from hacker news.
I'm not sure how denying facts is helpful in these situations. Environments that blatantly and inhumanely disregard mental health such as MIT, certain FAANG companies, the US DoJ, factories in China building phones insist that there are many factors in suicides when the circumstances are obvious; immorally deflecting blame, rather than introspectively remediating their own problems. Their very first course of action is usually to deny that the death was a suicide, once it gets out that it was, they deny any involvement or contribution whatsoever.
> In open source, we often emphasize the importance of good code. After all, the deliverable of every open source project, is the source, right? We often forget that good code is written by good people, and that retaining those people and keeping them happy should be the primary concern of any project maintainer.
Here is the thing: Bad code is written by good people as well. Be gentle and constructive with your critiques and criticism, and you might start getting good code from them before too long.
Good code is written by bad people too. Your project may very well have a prolific contributor who is driving away other people with their behavior. That person might even be you.
Or the "good" people aren't that good at all (both as humans and coders) but use the project to form coalitions, gain power and land jobs way beyond their capabilities.
And gang up on prolific contributors in the process, not overtly, but using the method of a thousand cuts and lies.
Until the prolific contributor explodes in righteous anger and the "good" people have "proof" that he is a bad person.
I really appreciate the desidere to not just understand but also try to help people with bad mental health, but I really hope that you are not reading to much into this. You cannot simply know if the same person would still end his life living a completely different life, re:
>I last communicated with jD91mZM2 in February, one month prior to his death. This communication was purely technical, regarding the aarch64 port of the Redox kernel. I can’t help but think, that perhaps this was a factor in his decision to choose death
Mental sickness is sickness. You cannot investigate it like you would a rational decision by a healthy person. The event or events pushing him towards suicide could have gone back years on years. People living an otherwise objectively great life can contemplate suicide.
Not taking away from the good message of taking care of others.
I'm someone who considered suicide many times and once attempted it. I've been that way since I was 6 and it never left me up till now (adulthood). It's still the likeliest way for me to go. I don't know if it's going to be in a year, 10 years or 20, but it is how it's going to be, unless I'm going to be hit by a car or something like that.
I appreciate author's intention to pay more attention to the health of others. However, wondering if something they said in a technical conversation caused the decision is pushing it a bit too far. fastasucan already touched on that, perhaps more eloquently than I can. I'll only add to that, that I'm fairly certain that I am this way due to genetic factors. This condition was present in my family before my birth and it's common for my immediate relatives to have various disorders of the nervous system. My own condition goes beyond just suicidal thoughts - during more intense episodes my body stops working (physically), just as you'd expect, given family background. I can tell you no technical conversation ever could push me to suicide, even though I care about technology a great deal.
Minor issue that I usually see in how people talk about suicide: I don't like it when someone talks about suicide as something that must be prevented at all times, presupposing that it is never a valid decision. It is patronizing. Sometimes it's a decision made under the influence of bad mental health, sometimes it's a rational decision. Sometimes it's done when life doesn't present itself as desirable. I don't share the axiom that life is invaluable. I don't like it when others try to impose it on me, just like just about anyone doesn't like proselytizing. I continue living, because everyday I choose to do so, not because I don't choose to commit suicide. In my life, living is not the default that happens in the absence of choice. It is a choice. And the other choice is valid as well. Right now I have shit to do, so I make the former choice. Someday I won't have that anymore and I will make the latter choice. I'm saying it at a time when I haven't had episodes for 2 years, my body is healthy and my mind is as sharp as it's ever been.
> Minor issue that I usually see in how people talk about suicide: I don't like it when someone talks about suicide as something that must be prevented at all times, presupposing that it is never a valid decision. It is patronizing.
Right!? For example, I don’t want to be put in an old people’s home to rot when I am old. Sooner would I kill myself. And for someone to likely say then that I am confused because I am old and that it is not right to let me kill myself or to help me end my life: Fuck you, future people, I wrote this comment in 2021 when I was 30 years old and if I decide in the future that I don’t want to live anymore then you damn well better let me end my life and not try to “save me” against my will.
We can try to be decent to one another most of the time, but personal mental health is one's own responsibly, and secondarily our family and friends might assist us (if they are not part of the problem). Individually we can accept only a very slight responsibly for the mental health of our friends and associates. It is hard enough to persuade a close family member to go on a diet, for example; how much more difficult to assist an acquaintance with severe depression or instability. It might be good to do more pair programming and to set up mentor or peer relationships within a workplace or project, especially considering those people who appear to be loners or lacking friends.
Personally I think that severe mental illness can best be helped with dedicated one-on-one life coaching, which is why I offer that as a free service (but no one took me up on it yet). Psychology and therapy can be good, but most people cannot afford to pay for enough of it that it could help them. Meeting the therapist once a week is not likely to save someone from despair.
Open source is the worst waste of time ever. 20 years ago I was selling shareware software, and 15 years ago I moved to open source software, and since then I have not been paid anything for developing.
Yesterday I made a new release of my open-source project and it stressed me so much I could not sleep till 5am.
I tried to abandon the project 10 years ago, but then I get to many mails of people complaining about the lack of updates, which is even more stressful. Once you started an open source project, you can never get rid of it.
Struggling to see the connection to opensource specifically though... can happen anywhere, even in corporate world.
Perhaps could be the mistaken thought that opensource is a refuge from an intollerant industry. When that fails, you lose your house of cards self.
Perhaps the nature of the industry is use our brains and our thoughts are golden. So when a "self thought" happens we do not know how to isolate it and see we are the observer not the subject (negative or positive).
13 comments
[ 0.27 ms ] story [ 30.2 ms ] threadI had a friend who committed suicide and the friend and her family did not want the cause of death public.
The US cause of death is private and would be considered a privacy violation if disclosed by a healthcare provider.
Perhaps in the future, not speculating or disclosing non-public cause of death would still be possible as part of a helpful article.
I apologize if I misread and the cause was publicly known. Even though the contributor’s real name wasn’t used in the article, this can be really sensitive and painful if ever linked to the individual.
I had no idea he was so young, but it was GSoC so that makes sense.
All the best to his friends and family.
Here is the thing: Bad code is written by good people as well. Be gentle and constructive with your critiques and criticism, and you might start getting good code from them before too long.
Good code is written by bad people too. Your project may very well have a prolific contributor who is driving away other people with their behavior. That person might even be you.
And gang up on prolific contributors in the process, not overtly, but using the method of a thousand cuts and lies.
Until the prolific contributor explodes in righteous anger and the "good" people have "proof" that he is a bad person.
Politics 101.
>I last communicated with jD91mZM2 in February, one month prior to his death. This communication was purely technical, regarding the aarch64 port of the Redox kernel. I can’t help but think, that perhaps this was a factor in his decision to choose death
Mental sickness is sickness. You cannot investigate it like you would a rational decision by a healthy person. The event or events pushing him towards suicide could have gone back years on years. People living an otherwise objectively great life can contemplate suicide.
Not taking away from the good message of taking care of others.
I'm someone who considered suicide many times and once attempted it. I've been that way since I was 6 and it never left me up till now (adulthood). It's still the likeliest way for me to go. I don't know if it's going to be in a year, 10 years or 20, but it is how it's going to be, unless I'm going to be hit by a car or something like that.
I appreciate author's intention to pay more attention to the health of others. However, wondering if something they said in a technical conversation caused the decision is pushing it a bit too far. fastasucan already touched on that, perhaps more eloquently than I can. I'll only add to that, that I'm fairly certain that I am this way due to genetic factors. This condition was present in my family before my birth and it's common for my immediate relatives to have various disorders of the nervous system. My own condition goes beyond just suicidal thoughts - during more intense episodes my body stops working (physically), just as you'd expect, given family background. I can tell you no technical conversation ever could push me to suicide, even though I care about technology a great deal.
Minor issue that I usually see in how people talk about suicide: I don't like it when someone talks about suicide as something that must be prevented at all times, presupposing that it is never a valid decision. It is patronizing. Sometimes it's a decision made under the influence of bad mental health, sometimes it's a rational decision. Sometimes it's done when life doesn't present itself as desirable. I don't share the axiom that life is invaluable. I don't like it when others try to impose it on me, just like just about anyone doesn't like proselytizing. I continue living, because everyday I choose to do so, not because I don't choose to commit suicide. In my life, living is not the default that happens in the absence of choice. It is a choice. And the other choice is valid as well. Right now I have shit to do, so I make the former choice. Someday I won't have that anymore and I will make the latter choice. I'm saying it at a time when I haven't had episodes for 2 years, my body is healthy and my mind is as sharp as it's ever been.
Right!? For example, I don’t want to be put in an old people’s home to rot when I am old. Sooner would I kill myself. And for someone to likely say then that I am confused because I am old and that it is not right to let me kill myself or to help me end my life: Fuck you, future people, I wrote this comment in 2021 when I was 30 years old and if I decide in the future that I don’t want to live anymore then you damn well better let me end my life and not try to “save me” against my will.
Personally I think that severe mental illness can best be helped with dedicated one-on-one life coaching, which is why I offer that as a free service (but no one took me up on it yet). Psychology and therapy can be good, but most people cannot afford to pay for enough of it that it could help them. Meeting the therapist once a week is not likely to save someone from despair.
Yesterday I made a new release of my open-source project and it stressed me so much I could not sleep till 5am.
I tried to abandon the project 10 years ago, but then I get to many mails of people complaining about the lack of updates, which is even more stressful. Once you started an open source project, you can never get rid of it.
Struggling to see the connection to opensource specifically though... can happen anywhere, even in corporate world.
Perhaps could be the mistaken thought that opensource is a refuge from an intollerant industry. When that fails, you lose your house of cards self.
Perhaps the nature of the industry is use our brains and our thoughts are golden. So when a "self thought" happens we do not know how to isolate it and see we are the observer not the subject (negative or positive).