Train Rides seem to be ideal for any trip less than 4 hours.
You don't have as much security concerns, you have far more legroom, and the constant ability to walk around the cabin at all times (often to the dining car where you can get overpriced beer / light meals, but... better than nothing at all). Hour-for-hour, a train ride is far more comfortable than a plane ride.
However, once we start looking at 4-hour or 8-hour train rides, the idea of a 2-hour or 3-hour plane ride just starts to make more sense, even with 30+ minutes of security + many minutes of "Taxi'ing on the runway" involved. Flying at 500mph just makes more sense than train rides at 50mph.
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An exception is when the ride itself is part of the journey: if you want to see the entire countryside, the train is superior.
Planes fly over everything and are often high up in the clouds, so you don't get to see the whole ground.
I would love to see someone come up with a few US Rail Pass itineraries for those of us needing a hand to hold.
It would seem to be a rather fun thing to blog. It's almost a puzzle of sorts to keep it to 10 trips, within 30 days, maximize the tourism potential (whatever that means) with Amtrak lines. Bonus points for things to see at each destination, food, cheap places to stay....
I have to imagine that just running along the Northeast Regional is the big one. Its the most profitable line of Amtrak for a reason.
Norfolk Virginia is just a short bus-ride to Virginia Beach and serves as either the starting point, or ending point of the journey.
Travel north to Washington DC, then Philadelphia, then New York City, and then Boston. That takes you across a major cultural center of the USA that pretty much covers the founding of the country (Philadelphia being the original capital of the USA and the location of the Liberty Bell and original Continental Congress. Wash. DC as the current capitol, a beach trip just for giggles, and NYC for plays / New York talk shows / food / etc. etc.)
The train is ridiculously optimized for New York City / Washington DC, with a dropoff point in Union Station Wash. DC and Penn Station in New York City. Both are connected underground to the greater subway systems, so you pretty much have access to the entirety of both cities from the train alone. (In contrast: an airplane ticket to either location will still need an Uber / Taxi to bring you into the city proper).
Union Station in Wash. DC in particular is less than a 1-mile walk from the US Capitol building, a bit over 1-mile to the Smithsonian proper.
While Penn Station is literally next to Madison Square Garden, so you're able to just get out and enjoy some basketball events. You're on Manhattan Island proper, and the subway will take you to any reasonable tourist attraction.
I would counter that the Starlight Express on the West coast as well as the California Zephyr between Emeryville, CA and, say, Denver, CO are probably two of the more stunning routes for the scenery?
Northeast regional is pretty much traversing over the megacity that is the WashDC -> New York City area. You're looking at people and culture, and probably need to plan your route very carefully (Ex: to ensure you actually have something to do in NYC, you might want to buy some Broadway tickets, or find a ticket to your favorite talk-show host).
In contrast, California Zephyr / Starlight Express has a lot more rugged mountains, stunning coastlines, and nature to explore. This is a longer route but you traverse across much more "nature" so to speak.
Southwest Chief is the king of western Rail routes. Air conditioned car and the phenomenal almost alien beauty of the desert southwest. No reason to take it past ABQ however.
As someone who grew up in Richmond I'd argue the river, especially if you know where to go on the river, is just as nice as Virginia Beach with more stuff to do on land and culture in Richmond.
When I did my post-secondary Eurotrip I purchased the Euro pass and scheduled my train travels to be overnight such that I could wake up in a new city. Leave Sweden to wake up in Berlin, leave Berlin to wake up in Nürnberg, etc.
Made for a great form of travel IMHO. Got to wake up and watch the sunrise over the countrysides was beautiful. Though I do love your point, I’d love to travel the “Wild West” regions via train.
Sleeping compartments are AFAIK about the same price as hotel rooms. I used to sleep on the benches when a bit younger, but stopped that after a couple of sleepless attempts. Nowadays I do night trains solely for the time saving reasons.
Trains are also great if you can sleep on the go. Board a train at night with no real wait. Settle in and sleep. Wake up halfway across the country. As long as you want to stop and explore (possibly small) cities along the way it's a great way to travel.
For now. I feel that it's only a matter of time before the TSA gets involved, and that train ride that was hyped up as being quicker than a plane ride will suddenly no longer be as quick.
TSA tried once. Amtrak, who has actual police with actual arrest powers, said next time they showed up and harassed Amtrak's passengers, they'd get thrown in jail. IIRC, Amtrak and TSA came to a face saving agreement that essentially made it clear that TSA has no say in Amtrak security. Unlike an airport that has many airlines, Amtrak stations only serve Amtrak so they have complete control. Not sure how things work at Canadian stations that Amtrak services but I'm betting it's not through a TSA type of situation.
Living in Europe and traveling by train for 7/8 hours every two months for work.
What kind of shitty train does only 50mph?
I would say the convenience it’s highly dependent on the destination. Here the train station it’s often near the city center while to get to the airport you need additional transportation,
As you said you have more legroom but also there is enough space to use a laptop and actually work connected to Wi-Fi.
I’m not limited in what and how much I can carry with me, and the train is much quieter than a plane.
And finally, the train is much less stressful and traveling time doesn’t really matter when is the company’s time.
I would say that if you don’t have an airport in a 30km radius from the destination, the train still wins around until 8hours trips. Above, I would consider travelling with the airplane.
In the US, Amtrak shares rails controlled by the freight operators. Amtrak trains can be delayed indefinitely, as the freight trains always get priority, even when they are off schedule. These delays are unpredictable in timing and length.
I used to do the Seattle/Portland route regularly and 1 - 2 hours extra/unplanned travel time wasn't uncommon. Average speed was well less than 50mph.
A few years back, we flew to SEA->MSP to visit family but opted for Amtrak for the return trip. It did happen to save us a couple hundred dollars and the circus that is TSA & airport security, but it was 36 hours. When we were moving, it was a reasonable speed (certainly nowhere close to a TGV). The problem was that we had multiple stops, such as maybe four hours sitting in Spokane.
I would happily spend 12hrs on a train to do that trip -- even 18hrs overnight -- but 36 is way too much.
The local 1-hour stops and lengthy freight train delays really slow things down drastically for Amtrak. If the train was just moving all the time it would be a lot less painful.
The trains are stinky and dumpy, usually with absurdly high fares, but if they kept moving they would be tolerable.
The rail pass is nice because it allows for stopovers, but the Amtrak trips in between are going to be a drag.
Perhaps some trains should remake themselves to be more like cruises, with luxury amenities (delicious food and drink, gym/exercise classes/spa/wave pool, on-train entertainment, live DJ/music and dance floor, interesting lectures and debates, celebrity meet & greet, arts and crafts, on-train library and book discussions, games and social activities, movie theater, etc.) so you wouldn't actually want to get off the train and you wouldn't care about the horrible delays. There could be stopovers at interesting places, and local tours. Or maybe there could be "work cars" with comfortable desks/chairs, high-speed internet access, coffee and snack service, etc..
And when you say indefinitely, it really is. I was once on an Amtrak train that, at one point in the trip, was 25 hours behind schedule. Another time I arrived 8 hours late. On the long haul trains, if the segment you're taking is towards the end of the line, the arrival time of the train is very unpredictable.
> Living in Europe and traveling by train for 7/8 hours every two months for work. What kind of shitty train does only 50mph?
There are legs of the train that go above 100mph. But all-in-all, once freight traffic and other issues are considered, you're averaging no better than 50mph on US trains.
As a sibling-comment says: US freight gets priority in our country. The US doesn't really have a passenger rail system, we have a freight rail system that happens to sometimes have passenger rail as a 2nd citizen.
Huge difference between US and European rail: in the US freight companies own the rail lines and the commuter rail rents them. This has two implications. First, rails are designed not for high-speed passenger trains but for massive lumbering cargo trains that can't go much faster than 50mph. Second, it means passenger rail has the lowest priority so it can be stopped and made to wait at any time as determined by the actual rail owners.
Then there's also the last mile problem in that very very few cities in America are actual walkable the way European ones are. For a few years I had to commute to Chicago, and that was awesome. I could take the train in, then walk to a metro station and be on my way. But for most destinations, you'll need to drive to and from the train station, so what's the point?
Driving is about the freedom of either having a car when you get there, or about making it a road trip taking detours on your way there.
None are available with the train unless you can take your car with you. At that point, the competition is over between them unless the train is much cheaper, which is not the case in the US, not to mention a 4h car trip takes 8 with Amtrak. So the train has nothing going for it against a car at least in my area.
If you don’t need a car then no one will choose to sit for 8hs for more money when you can get on a plane for 1.5h plus 30m of security and be there.
$299 for 30 days sounded to good to be true. I used it nearly 30 years ago and it was something like that.
But it's really $499 after the introductory offer ending already the day after tomorrow. And it's limited to 10 trips, which can be problem if you also want to do some shorter day trips e.g. in the Northeast.
$299 for 10 trips would make for a phenomenal way to get around the Northeast. Fly into DC and do the government sites and museums. Head to Philadelphia for some more history. New York City. On the way up to New York City, a few great New England beach towns like Mystic Connecticut, or even a ferry to Block Island from New London. Up to Boston for history and universities. Then Portsmouth New Hampshire, finally Portland, then back to Boston to fly back home.
What years was this? I’ve ridden the Pacific Surfliner a bunch, and have only had minimal hiccups. And a bunch of interactions with the mentally unstable, but that’s not Amtrak’s fault.
The only way I can take Amtrak is if I consider the ride to be part of the vacation. Using it for business or time sensitive trips outside of the northeast corridor is a bit risky.
Up until a few years ago, AirAsia had a similar program. Flight routes were designated in 1, 2, or 3 points, and for just about $280US you got about 30 points to use in 60 days. You had to plan in advance and be willing to fly at very off-peak times, but you could easily visit a dozen cities all over SE Asia and get a value worth double of what it cost. Really wish they would bring that back!
Back in the 90s I travelled all over Japan using a similar railpass (seishun18kippu). It was a really relaxing and enjoyable way to spend a vacation, but then Japan has lots of cool stuff to see within easy distance of train stations. Some of my best memories of Japan are from those journeys.
Japan's system was a lot easier to use than the Railpass though: reservations were not required, you just took whatever seat was available, and Japanese trains are structured so there are a lot more seats.
I've did Portland-Seattle-Vancouver about a decade ago, which was nice. It's not fast but you don't want it to be if your objective is to see the scenery. Much of the route hugs the coast so make sure you're on the water facing side of the train if you don't want to spend a lot of the day looking at a wall of trees. At that time they didn't have one day through service between Portland and Vancouver but spending an afternoon and night in Seattle was nice since I'd never been there before. When booking you just have to make sure you don't accidentally sign up for the Amtrak bus that runs on the same route. Not sure if service into Canada has been restored yet.
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[ 1.4 ms ] story [ 125 ms ] threadYou don't have as much security concerns, you have far more legroom, and the constant ability to walk around the cabin at all times (often to the dining car where you can get overpriced beer / light meals, but... better than nothing at all). Hour-for-hour, a train ride is far more comfortable than a plane ride.
However, once we start looking at 4-hour or 8-hour train rides, the idea of a 2-hour or 3-hour plane ride just starts to make more sense, even with 30+ minutes of security + many minutes of "Taxi'ing on the runway" involved. Flying at 500mph just makes more sense than train rides at 50mph.
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An exception is when the ride itself is part of the journey: if you want to see the entire countryside, the train is superior.
Planes fly over everything and are often high up in the clouds, so you don't get to see the whole ground.
I would love to see someone come up with a few US Rail Pass itineraries for those of us needing a hand to hold.
It would seem to be a rather fun thing to blog. It's almost a puzzle of sorts to keep it to 10 trips, within 30 days, maximize the tourism potential (whatever that means) with Amtrak lines. Bonus points for things to see at each destination, food, cheap places to stay....
Norfolk Virginia is just a short bus-ride to Virginia Beach and serves as either the starting point, or ending point of the journey.
Travel north to Washington DC, then Philadelphia, then New York City, and then Boston. That takes you across a major cultural center of the USA that pretty much covers the founding of the country (Philadelphia being the original capital of the USA and the location of the Liberty Bell and original Continental Congress. Wash. DC as the current capitol, a beach trip just for giggles, and NYC for plays / New York talk shows / food / etc. etc.)
The train is ridiculously optimized for New York City / Washington DC, with a dropoff point in Union Station Wash. DC and Penn Station in New York City. Both are connected underground to the greater subway systems, so you pretty much have access to the entirety of both cities from the train alone. (In contrast: an airplane ticket to either location will still need an Uber / Taxi to bring you into the city proper).
Union Station in Wash. DC in particular is less than a 1-mile walk from the US Capitol building, a bit over 1-mile to the Smithsonian proper.
While Penn Station is literally next to Madison Square Garden, so you're able to just get out and enjoy some basketball events. You're on Manhattan Island proper, and the subway will take you to any reasonable tourist attraction.
Northeast regional is pretty much traversing over the megacity that is the WashDC -> New York City area. You're looking at people and culture, and probably need to plan your route very carefully (Ex: to ensure you actually have something to do in NYC, you might want to buy some Broadway tickets, or find a ticket to your favorite talk-show host).
In contrast, California Zephyr / Starlight Express has a lot more rugged mountains, stunning coastlines, and nature to explore. This is a longer route but you traverse across much more "nature" so to speak.
So it depends what you want to see.
Made for a great form of travel IMHO. Got to wake up and watch the sunrise over the countrysides was beautiful. Though I do love your point, I’d love to travel the “Wild West” regions via train.
For now. I feel that it's only a matter of time before the TSA gets involved, and that train ride that was hyped up as being quicker than a plane ride will suddenly no longer be as quick.
https://www.vox.com/2014/3/31/5563600/everything-you-need-to...
https://www.vox.com/2018/12/4/18123624/amtrak-boarding-rules...
I would say the convenience it’s highly dependent on the destination. Here the train station it’s often near the city center while to get to the airport you need additional transportation, As you said you have more legroom but also there is enough space to use a laptop and actually work connected to Wi-Fi. I’m not limited in what and how much I can carry with me, and the train is much quieter than a plane. And finally, the train is much less stressful and traveling time doesn’t really matter when is the company’s time.
I would say that if you don’t have an airport in a 30km radius from the destination, the train still wins around until 8hours trips. Above, I would consider travelling with the airplane.
In the US, Amtrak shares rails controlled by the freight operators. Amtrak trains can be delayed indefinitely, as the freight trains always get priority, even when they are off schedule. These delays are unpredictable in timing and length.
I used to do the Seattle/Portland route regularly and 1 - 2 hours extra/unplanned travel time wasn't uncommon. Average speed was well less than 50mph.
I would happily spend 12hrs on a train to do that trip -- even 18hrs overnight -- but 36 is way too much.
The trains are stinky and dumpy, usually with absurdly high fares, but if they kept moving they would be tolerable.
The rail pass is nice because it allows for stopovers, but the Amtrak trips in between are going to be a drag.
Perhaps some trains should remake themselves to be more like cruises, with luxury amenities (delicious food and drink, gym/exercise classes/spa/wave pool, on-train entertainment, live DJ/music and dance floor, interesting lectures and debates, celebrity meet & greet, arts and crafts, on-train library and book discussions, games and social activities, movie theater, etc.) so you wouldn't actually want to get off the train and you wouldn't care about the horrible delays. There could be stopovers at interesting places, and local tours. Or maybe there could be "work cars" with comfortable desks/chairs, high-speed internet access, coffee and snack service, etc..
There are legs of the train that go above 100mph. But all-in-all, once freight traffic and other issues are considered, you're averaging no better than 50mph on US trains.
As a sibling-comment says: US freight gets priority in our country. The US doesn't really have a passenger rail system, we have a freight rail system that happens to sometimes have passenger rail as a 2nd citizen.
Then there's also the last mile problem in that very very few cities in America are actual walkable the way European ones are. For a few years I had to commute to Chicago, and that was awesome. I could take the train in, then walk to a metro station and be on my way. But for most destinations, you'll need to drive to and from the train station, so what's the point?
People still make long-distance car trips despite the fact that airplans exist.
None are available with the train unless you can take your car with you. At that point, the competition is over between them unless the train is much cheaper, which is not the case in the US, not to mention a 4h car trip takes 8 with Amtrak. So the train has nothing going for it against a car at least in my area.
If you don’t need a car then no one will choose to sit for 8hs for more money when you can get on a plane for 1.5h plus 30m of security and be there.
Generally, no.
The calculus changes significantly when children (more than 1), old people and/or luggage is involved.
Most travel isn't just traveling with a suitcase and +1 for tourism purposes.
But it's really $499 after the introductory offer ending already the day after tomorrow. And it's limited to 10 trips, which can be problem if you also want to do some shorter day trips e.g. in the Northeast.
Japan's system was a lot easier to use than the Railpass though: reservations were not required, you just took whatever seat was available, and Japanese trains are structured so there are a lot more seats.
Gallery of posters for the service: http://www.satou3.com/railways/18kippu2.html