Ask HN: 30 years old with no career
I've worked in about 20 different industries from the oilfield to construction to food service, to debt collection, to transportation, to everything in between. Nothing in tech though.
Some were possible "good" jobs, but often they're very dangerous. I was an apprentice in a trade that has the potential to earn a lot 5 years in.
It's like I work for a bit and I'll get to a point where I just want to quit and be done with it. Or there are conditions I just don't want to put up with anymore so I just walk.
I've never felt content or joy at work, which I think is normal, but I also think some other people enjoy their work.
It's also part laziness, I can be slothful without a routine.
But I just feel so lost. I almost feel too old to keep constantly moving on to something else.
Has anybody else been in this situation and come out the other side with meaningful work that they like? And they're able to support themselves?
Just feel lost, I guess. Thank you.
97 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 168 ms ] threadI've done some courses in data analysis, as well as python. I usually lose steam after self teaching after a few months though.
I've found it hard to break in without a degree.
You don't need a degree if you have substantial projects and put them on your resume. Your resume just needs to convey that you have actually done significant programming work and that you're good at it.
If you don't yet have a portfolio of projects, you can start building it now.
You'd probably want to personalize/customize the projects, but could be a good starting point.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24670746
If you are interested in tech, but want to go a more Linux/sysadmin route vs programming, then there are definitely avenues to get a foot in the tech door that don’t require a degree, or really necessarily, any certs either. You do kinda have to really want it and love it more than the average other person though.
A datacenter or hosting NOC (*nix oriented if at all possible; most NOC tech roles will be heavily Linux) Technician can be a fairly easy in, and has the potential to take you down a good career path. The great part about this particular entry level (usually) role, vs some other entry level IT role, is that you will learn a broad swath of internet/networking/linux/DNS/hosting/ security fundamentals that can easily jumpstart you into whatever specific tech path that you discover that you are most interested. After some experience and finding that out, you can then more fine-tune what your next job/role/tech path will/should be and look like.
Good luck and I wish you the very best! Stay positive and interested and it’s going to be fine!
I ended up going to massage therapy school, and I worked doing that for 6 years. During that time I began learning web development, mostly as a way to pass the time on slow work days. As I got better at development I got to a point where I could realistically see it as a career.
I began to focus on frontend development because I liked that I could work without dependencies, any computer with a web browser is good enough.
Massage is physical work and eventually I got tired of it. my second daughter was on the way and I wasn't going to be able to really make any more as an MT without starting my own business, which I wasn't interested in doing. I got serious about searching for dev work and eventually found something.
As a bonus, the 4 years of self study prepared me very well, and i actually enjoy the work. You'd have to to spend 4 years studying.
I wouldn't worry about the 'laziness' bit, I think most people are like that and it sounds like you've provided for yourself.
I ended up getting a 2 year diploma in computer science (BCIT if it's relevant to you. I was happy with the program, but some folks didn't have as good of results).
For a long time, no jobs etc.. really stuck, nor did university the first time I tried. A 2 year program was good, because it didn't require as long of a time commitment to get something out of it. This one also had the option to do another 2 years (either right away or later) to finish the degree.
I'm in my second job since school now. I've never found something where I feel "joy" at work, but I'm very happy with the most recent one. Most jobs are annoying a lot of the time I think. Money and future prospects are much better than my random jobs earlier in life.
I changed cities when I went to school even though I could have found similar programs in my home town. The change of scenery was helpful I think.
I guess I have 3 main takeaways:
- I don't think you need to feel like something is a perfect fit/joy. Good enough is OK.
- Don't worry about having "wasted" years. I think life experience counts for a lot and a diverse background can be a strength.
- I never did in my late 20's or early 30's, but I think about retirement money a lot more now. People how started careers earlier and were smart with their $ have a big advantage over latercomers.
Any shit from your past that is brewing underneath the surface?
BUT… I don’t think there is necessarily anything wrong with OP for feeing this. There’s a reason why Office Space is popular. I sometimes think there’s something wrong with the people I know who like their bullshit jobs or take their work seriously. Either deluded or really good at acting.
If you want, send me an email.
No guarantees, of course, but it can at least be fulfilling in ways that ordinary mercenary work isn't.
If the job is not fun, try finding a hobby that is!
At 23 my first child was born.
Walking away from the job is still possible, but takes so much preparation that it's often easier just to but the bullet and keep going.
I haven't come out the other side, so I can't help you there, but you're not alone. Lots of people change careers after a few years. It's going to be hard, but I'm sure we'll figure it out.
My customers (machine operators) are right outside my door. I can cut the time it takes to process a production order, the code ships by the end of the week, and I can go out on the floor and get feedback whenever I want. I generally only work on stuff that improves the primary business of the company, so there's very little "garbage" being built.
Another tip: take stock of your mental health, and if you can afford it talk to a professional. It’s possible you have ADHD, depression, or something else, which could be holding you back. Or maybe you have none of those, but they can help you identify why you feel the way you do.
Best of luck, and be sure to come back and update us on how things are going.
I suspected he might have had ADHD, and I certainly do have ADHD, and ADHD is hereditary!
If I didn't accidentally fall into software I probably would have been the same. I agree with your idea that they should talk to a professional (ideally psychiatrist in my opinion) and check for any conditions.
Those who enjoy their work are often the opposite: they live to work.
You could try tech or any number of other jobs (EMT always sounded fun to me.) But your goal should be to find something that you can tolerate, clock out, and lets you live your life.
Stop putting "fulfilling work" and "career" on a pedestal and have fun.
> Those who enjoy their work are often the opposite: they live to work.
Huh. Squinting at this from exactly the right angle, that can kinda read the very idea of living to work is paradoxically catastrophic, at once fulfilling and shallow and existentially meaningless. As though work-life balance were interpreted backwards, or something.
I've obviously been looking at "do what you love" positively for a while now, but now I really wonder... maybe working to live, and enjoying what you do just a little bit, but not completely, is the ideal balance.
Hmm. Now I realize that not being entirely consumed by work and finding identity in that loss of self also has the benefit of making emotional and mental job flexibility easier - and in tech, that's a necessity.
I got a crappy entry-level job in an office, enrolled in college part-time, I was making $ 18,100/year at my full-time job, I was paying $500/month in rent, $150/month for a crappy car, and $550/per each college class. I did not qualify for student loans since I was making too much money.
So I took a part-time job, on top of my full time job, so that I could go to school at night 3 times a week.
It took me 8 years to graduate with my BS in Business (minor in CS), I went on for my MBA... to make a long story short it all paid off, I became a VP and develop a career mixed between being an executive and being an entrepreneur.
Chances are that my "recipe" won't work out for you, the common thread between my stories and other stories that I have heard is:
* work hard
* make your own mistakes (I have made a few, I didn't list them above)
* iterate fast
* when failing, pick up the pieces and continue
Not all that wanders are lost.
You could try the entrepreneurship route.
Also, read: The War on Art (by Steven Pressfield)
You’re not the only one feeling it. :) stay happy
People forget this is the most opportunity-filled, complex economy in the history of humanity. The idea of "spend your career at corporations" is only about 100 years old as a result of the industrial rev. Forget it about it for a second. My grandfather launched a company in his youth and it was considered normal, he wasn't considered an "entrepreneur", he was just doing what many people did before today's career-at-corporations mentality became entrenched.
You already know quite a bit about a wide array of industries. Spend some months focusing on your past experiences and where there might be a place for you to break in offering a product or service.
I’ve often considered entrepreneurship but always felt this wasn’t right either. Making any amount of money (let alone enough to replace your day job) is a multi year adventure of very long hours. And even then it has a very high chance of failing. So it’s a huge investment for several years with very little chance of any payoff. You’re almost always better off working for someone else money wise and across the board (unless you’re both skilled and lucky, which means well above average, which by definition excludes at least half of people)
What I’m doing now is working at an easy but mind numbingly boring job where the software quality is abysmal. It’s a tough change because I was used to startups with decent standards (unit testing, code reviews…) but it freed me to let go. I don’t care at all about the product. I don’t care if it succeeds or not (it never should but because our customers are captive vis regulations they have to keep buying from us)
I negotiated to be paid well enough (mostly based on my previous experience at better companies and the knowledge I got from it) which helps some. And I put in my 40h (I always refuse overtime), take the paycheck, save 70% of it. Working from home has been awesome because I can limit work to a few hours a day before I go mad and still not lose the rest of the time I’d normally be stuck at the office without much to do (poor planning on my betters’ part). This lets me see the end of the tunnel ins few years where I’ll be able to quit working if I want to (and I’m pretty sure I’ll want to), 30–40 years earlier than most.
All this to say that if you can write software but don’t feel like starting your own company then this could be a valid option too. And you don’t even have to play the corporate game because you’re only in it for 10 years so don’t really care about promotions etc. Where I work managers are paid 20% more (before tax!) than individual contributors but they get 10x the headaches and longer hours. No thanks.
I've known half a dozen wealth people who had gone bust 2-3 times before being running their current business.
They make hay whilst the sun shines and expect the market to change in the medium term. Triggering a reset.
See https://www.bls.gov/bdm/us_age_naics_00_table7.txt