Elite university. I think education at that level is mostly to form connections and relations within the field. If you are just after education, there would be a lot of alternatives, especially today when the logistics of knowledge are comparably cheap.
There aren't really elite institutions in my country, but my masters was nearly free.
> Recent film program graduates of Columbia University who took out federal student loans had a median debt of $181,000.
> Yet two years after earning their master’s degrees, half of the borrowers were making less than $30,000 a year.
"elite masters degree" - lol. (I think the article is confusing undergrad and grad school fees, since it's hard to believe the typical 2-year film master's degree could cost that much.)
Berklee College of Music (Boston) undergrad costs about the same, with similar earnings. And you have to carry around an instrument to all your gigs.
The worst I've heard is music production grads. Most of the recording studios closed after streaming started (label revenue is down 90%), and some unpaid interns work 5 years for free, before getting a job at 7-11, etc.
Actually some of the programs mentioned in the article, like family therapy, are lucrative if your credentials allow you to open your own office in California since there's a shortage. But that requires ambition. (Banks will loan money to newly-graduated health professionals.)
I want to weep at the list of programs in the article:
- Journalism
- Fine Arts in Film, Theater and Media Studies
- Speech pathology
A masters degree can run 300k at these top institutions. We have laws against usury, lemon laws, price gouging, ponzi schemes, securities regulations.....etc. How can a society justify allowing young folks spending 300k of money they don't have to get a degree in fine arts?
It's fine we let them spend whatever they want. What's not fine is that when it is clear they aren't able to pay it off, we don't let a bankruptcy court discharge the debt like all other unsecured debt.
Let lenders take risk, and when that risk clearly goes bust... wipe it out.
This. Universities should be required to eat a certain percentage of any loan that defaults, so that they always have skin in the game. A similar rule could have prevented the subprime mortgage crisis. Sure, let lenders sell house loans to higher risk customers, but make lenders themselves responsible for some portion of any bad loan, and don't let them use shell companies or bankruptcy-in-name-only shenanigans to escape their responsibility, either.
Split the risk 50/50 between lenders and the university. Then every young adult can declare bankruptcy right after graduating and have a fresh clean start with no debt.
That may sound like an easy fix, but easing the ability to discharge student loans in bankruptcy court would necessarily require higher interest rates on new loans (sans increased subsidization of student loans). That may be a palatable tradeoff, but I suspect most students would prefer cheap borrowing.
What’s to stop broke university students from immediately declaring bankruptcy upon graduation? They don’t have any assets to forfeit which typically stop others from gaming the system.
A society doesn't just need productive, value adding jobs which fill 100% of the working generations time. A society also needs fine arts, theatre, film because its part of being human. If we were all corporate wage slaves the world would be a terrible place to exist. The system as we have it in Europe is the perfect balance of this, you pay nothing or very little for your higher education and in return you can explore different areas which interest you without having this lingering thought of bankruptcy or financial ruin always in your head. I don't understand the US system at all, it is 100% geared toward profit and leaves no room for the creative, is that really a nice system to live in?
The US gained its advantage during the 40s-70s, when the government sector was a much larger percentage of the economy. We've been coasting on the efforts of that period and are now losing ground to countries that have their act together.
This is 100% my point of view, but nevertheless I must admit that the „creative output“ (movies, music, games, musicals etc) of the US seems so much better than that of the rest of the world…
I would humbly offer the UK as a counterpoint to all these creative fields and add TV output to the mix. Not to get into a US/UK pissing contest but to highlight the UK has very healthy culture output with a lot of talent.
I'd also suggest "better" and "more dominant" as 2 different things. The latter can be the case through marketing and commercial factors not merit.
The system you have in europe means creating a permanent underclass of young adults that have no prospects for jobs, until they are in their late 20s and they finally have to get off govt aid
By my late 20s i was already a midlevel executive in NYC. Thats the same age when the avg student is just finishing their uni studies.
Education in the EU is just a holding pen for young adults to do something, erasmus, whatever, while they are permanently unemployed. I was visiting friends, spending cash in restaurants, while they ate ramen in college dorms or small urban housing, well into their late 20's.
I received my MBA in IT from WGU and couldn't be happier. It cost me a total of $8,000 and was one of the best things I have ever done for my education. This MBA cost me a fraction of what my BS did.
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[ 5.6 ms ] story [ 58.6 ms ] threadThere aren't really elite institutions in my country, but my masters was nearly free.
> Yet two years after earning their master’s degrees, half of the borrowers were making less than $30,000 a year.
"elite masters degree" - lol. (I think the article is confusing undergrad and grad school fees, since it's hard to believe the typical 2-year film master's degree could cost that much.)
Berklee College of Music (Boston) undergrad costs about the same, with similar earnings. And you have to carry around an instrument to all your gigs.
https://www.berklee.edu/
The worst I've heard is music production grads. Most of the recording studios closed after streaming started (label revenue is down 90%), and some unpaid interns work 5 years for free, before getting a job at 7-11, etc.
Actually some of the programs mentioned in the article, like family therapy, are lucrative if your credentials allow you to open your own office in California since there's a shortage. But that requires ambition. (Banks will loan money to newly-graduated health professionals.)
- Journalism
- Fine Arts in Film, Theater and Media Studies
- Speech pathology
A masters degree can run 300k at these top institutions. We have laws against usury, lemon laws, price gouging, ponzi schemes, securities regulations.....etc. How can a society justify allowing young folks spending 300k of money they don't have to get a degree in fine arts?
Let lenders take risk, and when that risk clearly goes bust... wipe it out.
This. Universities should be required to eat a certain percentage of any loan that defaults, so that they always have skin in the game. A similar rule could have prevented the subprime mortgage crisis. Sure, let lenders sell house loans to higher risk customers, but make lenders themselves responsible for some portion of any bad loan, and don't let them use shell companies or bankruptcy-in-name-only shenanigans to escape their responsibility, either.
Doing a $300K Masters Degree in 'Fine Arts' at Colombia is straight up a Rich Kids Thing. And that's it.
So to do away with it goes against everyone who enjoys the benefits of the system in US. Those who enjoy the benefits are also those in power.
The government sector is larger now than pretty much anytime since the end of WW II.
The US gained its advantage when it was the only industrialized country that wasn't devastated by WW II.
https://taxfoundation.org/short-history-government-taxing-an...
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=8fX
I'd also suggest "better" and "more dominant" as 2 different things. The latter can be the case through marketing and commercial factors not merit.
By my late 20s i was already a midlevel executive in NYC. Thats the same age when the avg student is just finishing their uni studies.
Education in the EU is just a holding pen for young adults to do something, erasmus, whatever, while they are permanently unemployed. I was visiting friends, spending cash in restaurants, while they ate ramen in college dorms or small urban housing, well into their late 20's.
That sticky 12% unemployment is no coincidence