Ask HN: How do you say no to your employer

How many people are on the team?

Do go in on Monday, if you don’t you are unable to defend yourself. Do just close your computer right now and go to bed. If a manager has unreasonable deadlines and other staff are not doing their jobs that’s on them, and it. Absolutely is NOT your responsibility to destroy your work life balance to make up for other peoples failures. If you don’t have a major stake in this project/company you should absolutely not be overworking and stressing yourself out this much, this will lead to burnout. If you feel like you are being strongly pressured into overworking yourself like this regularly it’s time to start looking for another position.

management will never believe the deadlines are unrealistic if you keep working nights and weekends to get the work done.

Write a report on the condition of the project. Write down exactly what needs to be done to finish the project and if possible estimate it. You don't need to turn it in, but you need it for you.

In a case like this it is fair to reduce the scope of the project and deliver limited functionality if there is business value in delivering the reduced scope project.

I worked on one project that was technically brilliant but had been going in circles for two years before I arrived. There was a meeting that top management was in about the state of the project. I discovered that we'd deliver a huge amount of value if we gave up on adding desired features and shipped what we had.

So we did. One of the best possible customers called us up on the first day it went live to buy it.

My (direct) boss never forgave me for this and it was the beginning of the end. Six months later I shipped the rest of the functionality.

Then I quit.

They called me six months later and said they still hadn't found my replacement. I told them that they'd have to fire my boss if they wanted to retain anyone. I checked his LinkedIn profile the next week and he was out.

I suffered a lot from that job (I started taking antidepressants BEFORE the crisis hit) but I avoided "moral injury" because I did the right thing. Finding the next job was quite an adventure though...

I think it was in a book by Nassim Taleb where I read that at his first day as a trader, he wrote his resignation letter and put it in his desk to have it ready any time.

Ultimately, you want to ensure to always have a BATNA - an alternative to what you are doing now that will make it easier for you to walk away any time (https://www.pon.harvard.edu/daily/batna/translate-your-batna...).

It sounds like you're not particularly happy at work. The right and ideal thing to do would be to talk to you manager and utter your dissatisfaction; demand that the org does better than this, and make it clear that you will walk away if the situation persists. Think of it as a reverse PIP.

Of course, that only works if you have a decent BATNA.

You'll likely be blamed for poor quality as well since you do it on weekend nights under high pressure.

The trick is never to commit to any kind of work like that in the first place. Communicate early, in writing, to the stakeholders, that the project will fail in the current setup, and then don't work on the weekends to accomplish it. Demand that either the scope is reduced, or deadline is extended.

This is pretty obvious but you should start looking for another job. Then when you have another job lined up you can tell them you have had enough of their mismanagement.

Get other offer(s) on the table as soon as you can -- then if the situation continues and your feedback isn't respected, you can walk away. There are hundreds of companies hiring in the monthly threads here on HN. Bad managers often (only) treat you a lot better when you have leverage. It sounds like the company you are at has systemic issues though -- sounds like there's a lot to be fixed.

Write a doc with items that led to and will lead to completion of the project. Write your name around things that you have completed. Write others names around things they have completed.

Once that's done, find some blockers/people challenges on the list. Put the managers name on them. Let them know that the delay is because of them. When they ask you on Monday, ask them why the blockers are not resolved yet and let them know that the release will be delayed until they fix their end.

Share it with skip and other team members.

Fight sociopathy with their own tools.

SNAFU. Go to sleep before you do something that effs it up beyond all return.

On Monday, before you serve yourself up as toast, have a triple shot latte and take a long look at the hollow-eyed face in the mirror. Why is this person about to be spanked? Probably because this is a situation you have landed him/her in.

When someone (most times a moron in at least one respect) asks/tells you to do something, the proper response is not 'Yessir, I will do this or die trying because I am the best of the best of the best, sir!'

No, it is 'Why?! What EXACTLY is required? No, I mean EXACTLY!!! When do you want it? You know that I have this to do? And I have not taken leave for two years? Who is supporting me on this? You do know that it could need double that number of people?' Etc. And report every day about how crap your life is and that you are overworked and underpaid and saddled with unrealistic expectations.

Weirdly, this type of response a) builds respect from your seniors (particularly if you flag up all the failings in their thought processes); b) is ultimately more likely to get you promoted; c) means you will not get kicked like a beachball inch by inch to an early grave of overwork and slave labour.

Not everyone you will work with is a complete idiot, a narcissistic egomaniac or a psychopath, but until they have proven themselves to be otherwise it may be safest to assume that they are.

There is only one WY to be able to say no. Be ready to walk away. Then you can just be honest and see what happens. You may find out you have more margaining power than you thought. You may find out you had none.

But if you aren't ready to walk away or be fired, you are never going to be able to justify and positions besides just saying yes.

This is a tough situation. The best way to avoid being in this situation is to:

   * set boundaries early. What will you do and not do? I've definitely worked some long weeks, but when I went into it "bought in" that made it so much better. 
   * Inform team members early and often about the ramifications of this kind of "planning" (I use the term loosely).
   * save money and set yourself up for financial security so that if this does happen, you can leave.
   * keep in touch with the dev community and your past co-workers so that you can easily transition to another job. Job hunting sucks, keeping in touch can make it suck just a bit less.

Of course, hard to do all that on a Sunday night :). But keep it in mind for the future.

As for your proximate question, I'd go in on Monday and explain why you didn't meet the deadline. Sibling comments mention building out a plan to deliver the functionality. If that is part of your job desc, I'd work on that too.

You also want to think about if this is a one off (possibly driven by a client) or a regular occurrence. If the latter, I'd polish your resume and start looking around, as it's really hard to change that kind of culture at a company unless you are in the leadership team (and difficult even then).

Lots of good comments. I’ll just add that next time the business set a promised delivery date you do you own estimate and let them know the promised date is unrealistic ASAP. Don’t try adjust the estimate so it fits, give them the estimate for the features promised and have the conversation about what needs to be dropped to meet the delivery date. If it is possible to add devs instead do that as early as possible. That’s a very professional approach that no one can fault.

My advice isn't based on your current situation (since there isn't much we can do about that now) but just how I got to the point where I feel ok saying no.

Last year I worked on a project and because of my mistakes it looked like we weren't going to hit our deadlines. I did not want others to have to suffer because of my mistakes so I made sure to work late (some days as late as 1AM) to make sure that our deadline was hit. Nobody asked me to do that but I didn't want others to suffer. We didn't hit our deadline but weren't too far off and people were overall ok with the situation as we were just headed into beta for the internal users. I'm pulled off that project and put on a new project, which is to work on something that literally made my previous months of effort obsolete. It was the project to completely replace the application that I worked extra on. Fast forward a few months and I am given a project that had a super aggressive timeline, which I didn't think could happen and I was told my estimate wouldn't be communicated out and I worded my estimate poorly thinking I covered my ass when I didn't and my estimate was communicated out. I was pressured hard to work nights but I pushed back and then I got to a point where I relied on another team and I couldn't get any further without them. It turns out nobody had actually verified that the other team had the functionality we needed (it was critical to what I was working on) and the other team hadn't even started working on the functionality that we needed. That was the straw that broke the camel's back, especially since they were wanting me to work the weekend before I brought up the fact that we don't have the pre-reqs even done and nobody from management actually verified we were ready to start. Since then I have pushed back on all attempts to get me to work late hours. I have seen mismanagement from terrible timelines to straight out lying to business people about things that are done when the work hasn't even started. Nothing changes if everybody keeps working late to hit crazy deadlines and management isn't affected at all if we do hit the deadlines as they aren't the ones taking time away from their personal life.

I have worked late a few times since that incident but it was because I lost track of time working because I was just so focused or because the delay was completely on me and I wanted to fix it so others downstream weren't affected

I like to emphasize in all of the cross-functional meetings that the engineers are stakeholders, not resources. This is cultural thing, and it helps to point it out often.

If engineers don't have representation at the design/product meetings to voice these concerns/costs, that is creating a structural problem that will continually compound/ratchet up the cost of future development as tech debt increases.

I don't join a company unless they clearly understand both of these things.

Tell them you tried your best but couldn't meet the deadline. If they blame it on you, start finding an exit. You don't want to work for these people long term.

A) See if they're open to continuous improvement, organize (or have your boss organize) a post-mortem on why the situation got to the point you had to sacrifice your life to cover for bad earlier decision. What errors were made? What changes need to happen for this not to ever happen again?

If attribution goes to bad management, and decisions are made to make the situation better, then you can give them a chance.

If the developer is to blame and seriously it was such a simple project why could you not deliver it faster, then you know you need to go.

B) The other red-flag is in the "under resourced" - if no resources are put on the table, then it certainly is not a big deal if you're late. It's very scary to be late, but what's the actual problem if you are? Will you get fired? Will the company lose M$? Or is it just a product/project manager putting too much pressure on you, and making you do things they should not?

Keep it simple. Don't overcomplicate this. Say no, politely, and stop working.

"Hi Boss, sorry but I have some commitments and I can't spend additional time on this project. Thanks."

Please tell us what happened?

Also it is not easy to say no especially to a person who pays you. Over years, I learned that nothing happens to developers for missing deadlines. First, we are in such a high demand, we can easily set our terms. But secondly, it is PM or manager's responsibility to make sure they have enough resources to meet deadline. If they didn't do their job, then it is on them. DO NOT TAKE A FALL FOR THEM. I see many junior devs doing that.

And finally, never ever work more than what they are paying you for. If you don't value your time, no one else will.

Turns out push back is all that was needed.