Ask HN: Did you quit smoking cannabis? If so, why?
I know this is offtopic, but i figure there are many current or past pot smokers on here.
I recently had the idea to quit smoking, but somehow it does not really suit me and i started to ask why i even should. The main argument i keep finding is alike "heavy smokers are lazy and likely won't get successful in their job or life" and stuff like this, which might is true in statistics but not for me.
On the opposite i am happy to have a tool that i can use to calm down that isn't valium or alcohol, that helps my migrains as well as is able to give me creative kicks i need for my work.
I am wondering what your experience is, what changed?
133 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 213 ms ] threadBut its a good example of something i rather should get rid. Sugar is high on that list too
I like your description, it contains a small hint on why i may am more depending on cannabis. I am all but busy, and right now am not ready to be, thanks to a burnout not to long ago i am still kinda recovering from. Thanks for this thought really, maybe i am just not there yet
I returned to smoking (well, vaping oils).
Omg yes, the feeling when you realize (or believe) its kinda your own fault you aren't in their place. This definitly also triggered a Impostor-Syndrom for me back when i found me in this situation.
Today i realize that being the best is not actually something i thrive for.
I too had the luck that some of my projects eventually worked out and today i can live a lifestyle i actually enjoy. Which i assume is rare enough that i can't consider myself an imposter anymore. Even with cannabis :)
For instance I have (cannabis or not) high sensitivity to sounds, lights, art, things like that. (e.g. I can start telling you about "three sided cards" w/o trying to ham it up and have tears well in my eyes)
Any time when the volume of a P.A. system is in question I will want it softer than anybody else in the room which other people might see as "insensitive" to their needs. It is one reason why I haven't done sound work for live music for years even though I can sling an XLR cable as well as anybody else.
The "insensitive" I was talking about in the prior post is small mistakes that make "subtractions from the emotional bank account" that my wife perceives at an unconscious level but won't confront me about or will minimize at a verbal level, but have a real impact on the relationship in a long term. I am pretty sure other people would be affected similarly but I don't have the long history of observation to convince myself of it.
Whether or not an individual experiences any of these negative side effects will likely depend on a variety of different factors ranging from the person's personality, to their genes, their state of mental and physical health, how often they smoke, and what precisely they smoke. I'm not sure where you live or what kind of weed you smoke but a lot of weed on the streets of the US today has a dramatically higher level of THC than it did in the past. When the THC levels are much higher than the other cannabinoid compounds it increases the risk of psychosis.
So I think the bottom line here is that you need be careful and be mindful that weed is not "harmless." Growing up, we thought it was harmless because you can't overdose on it and people don't generally smoke all their money away the way some people do with other drugs. But it can still fuck you up. It just takes longer and does so in much more subtle ways.
I hope that helps you...
This is a good point. I live in Switzerland, we have a healthy cannabis market that is mostly dominated by growers from the 80s and 90s. We do have the "killer weed" the youth likes to smoke, but the majority of stuff i come in contact with are classic, medical or at least CBD heavy strains. Nobody in my circle likes getting super high, we all just enjoy the good ol' buzz.
> So I think the bottom line here is that you need be careful and be mindful that weed is not "harmless."
You are absolutely right. I also have a little hate for myself for starting way to early which surely didn't help my mental development.
However i am way more afraid of Sugars and excessive Chemicals in my food that are slowly poisoning me. So for health perspective i would rather spend my efforts quitting sugars or cigarette smoking for a start :)
> I hope that helps you...
It did, thank you for your input!
There's some truth to this, but in a misleading way. Sure, in the '70's, the product we'd snag in the streets, leaves mainly, was in no way as potent contemporary product.
But, but, we were just as discerning then as now. Should we wish something a bit more potent, it was widely available. At that time, most product from Thailand, and a great deal from Afghanistan certainly compare.
In sum, if you wanted it, it was available for a price. So the belief, "much stronger than in the past," is somewhat of a canard.
I do believe that occasional use of mild cannabis is generally harmless for most people. But I am in agreement with you that all use (or perhaps even typical use) isn't necessary harmless.
Less so than alcohol, let’s not forget that.
I don’t disagree with you, it can be harmful and doesn’t solve all problems, but the above can hopefully give some perspective.
People can waste extraordinary amounts of time with either, form some kind of dependency, but harm from direct consumption or secondary effects are, let’s say … „less common“.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication
[2] http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/hold-your-wee-w...
Every time I explain that, in roll the fans telling me I'm somehow doing it wrong. I smoked the shit daily for years, I knew the ins and out of weed.
It just leads to issues with some people, as you said.
"Wrong strain, bro"
I started experiencing cannabis induced panic attacks first year of college and quit after the second time. People were annoying about it for a few years but as time went on I found that more and more people had the same experience I did. MM is great but I think the recreational and unprescribed "benefits" are exaggerated. It's a shame we don't have more data.
I did shallow search and found this: "No interactions were found between cannabis and Fish Oil. This does not necessarily mean no interactions exist. Always consult your healthcare provider."
https://www.drugs.com/drug-interactions/cannabis-with-fish-o...
That said, everyone has a different experience. I know plenty of happy, productive people who smoke and plenty who don’t. I think it’s up to you to figure out what works for you.
I do this regularly to generally detox.
For cannabis however it takes weeks, it's not something I do as often as I probably should
For instance, I read a study that people who use cannabis 4 or more days a week experience certain harmful psychological and physical effects. I get it, and I haven't read the full study, only the mainstream press overview... but right off the bat, think about a study that describes people who "use" alcohol 4 days a week. This includes people who drink one beck's "ultra premium light" 2.3%ABV every day and people who drink a fifth of bourbon a day or worse. It wouldn't make any sense for the beck's drinker to infer much from this study.
The state of cannabis research seems very limited - again, there's a good reason for this. But what does it mean to "use" cannabis. There are CBD heavy strains that have ~3%THC, and strains that exceed 30%TCH. How much do you smoke?
Someone who takes, say, 3 drags of low THC weed twice a week is smoking the equivalent of less than cigarette every two weeks. And the psychoactive effect is likely very, very mild.
I'm also learning (post-legalization markets) that the scenario I described above is becoming quite common, so I don't think it's an edge case anymore, even if it isn't the norm.
Ultimately, unless someone describes the kind of cannabis and the frequency and dose, I can't get much out of these stories or even the more formal research.
That's literally black and white for my partner when she has her anxiety showing up again.
I had to stop because the best way to smoke, is to do it often in small amounts, but this inevitably creates a lingering smell. This is understandable but there are no alternatives to go outside either. On top of this, the stigma is still there, and non-smokers despise smokers and can't stand even smelling a particle in the air without making strange faces and throwing dirty looks.
I still have hopes it becomes like coffee, because if done properly, it stimulates productivity, it's just that most overdose (and have extreme low tolerance from non-frequent use), so they end up thinking weed makes you lazy and puts you to sleep, which is not the case if you know what you are doing.
Since CBD is legal and common we also smoke THC strains in caffees, clubs, restaurants and wherever else smoking is allowed.
Otherwise agreed, the lazy stigma is living on (and not completely wrong)
It never before occured to me that legal does not mean it's easy
Where I live, if there is a bar around, you'll smell pot outside. Wherever people congregate with smoke, there you will also find joints. This has been the case even well before we federally legalized it.
I want it to be legal so I can buy it whenever I want even if I smoke in my own home 99% of the time.
Anyway if the smoke is really a concern look into making your own edibles (way cheaper than buying them) or vaping. If you only want to smoke small amounts then a flower vape is the way to go. If that’s too slow for you then vape oil.
It went from being a mostly euphoric, relaxing and sensory-enhancing experience in my teens and early 20’s to one mainly characterized by anxiety and paranoia.
I'm also way healthier than most. My suspicion is that this happens later in life (or substantial users faster) because of a depletion of various enzymes used to metabolize specifically THC.
The best recommendation I have is to make sure you are getting enough omegas. There are undoubtedly other nutrients at play, but that's all I know that will help.
Some years later I finished school, got a diploma, worked a few years and now I am self employed and have more free time than anyone else I know. I love the job I created for myself and I contribute this in parts to being a little rebel. Pretty sure my IQ has not dropped yet either
All while still taking drugs.
IMO the factors you mention are environmental and not directly related to drug use.
It has nothing to do with succeeding economically or getting a good job. That is a separate thing from "being intelligent."
The only recent study I find that mentions a lower IQ explicitly talks about teenager use and that it has non or little effect on grown up brains in terms of intelligence
However we are going even more offtopic here. We can agree to not agree :)
> January 28, 2021
> Frequent cannabis use by young people linked to decline in IQ
> A study has found that adolescents who frequently use cannabis may experience a decline in Intelligence Quotient (IQ) over time. The findings of the research provide further insight into the harmful neurological and cognitive effects of frequent cannabis use on young people.
> "Previous research tells us that young people who use cannabis frequently have worse outcomes in life than their peers and are at increased risk for serious mental illnesses like schizophrenia. Loss of IQ points early in life could have significant effects on performance in school and college and later employment prospects," commented senior author on the paper Professor Mary Cannon, Professor of Psychiatric Epidemiology and Youth Mental Health, RCSI.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/01/210128134755.h...
This is not really something one can "agree to disagree" about, unless you wish to dispense of the entire scientific method.
Just to clearify, I, and I think most cannabis smokers, by now know that it was stupid to start young. But these studies do not imply a healthy adult loosing IQ points somehow by smoking weed
The evidence shows that users of cannabis that began as teenagers have negative IQ consequences as adults.
> But these studies do not imply a healthy adult loosing IQ points somehow by smoking weed
It's unclear if starting as an adult has the same effect.
I am done with this convo, and happily will read into his later, but so far I have no idea where you are getting this idea from.
Likewise, the studies all track teenagers over decades, who then became adults. This is the most common usage pattern.
Dude stop
Blest-Hopley et al. [21] showed that both adolescent and adult cannabis users exhibited deficits compared to controls but in different brain areas, suggesting age-related risks at both developmental periods [21]. Additionally, Scott et al. [19] found small but significant effect sizes for the relationship between heavy cannabis use and cognition in both adolescents and young adults.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6394430/
I really don't know what you are trying to argue for, other than to just have your already-existing opinions validated.
You are arguing that for people that only use cannabis first as an adult, it has no negative effect? Because it is quite clear that usage as a teenager has negative IQ effects later on.
https://www.pnas.org/content/113/5/E500
> Among twin pairs discordant for marijuana use, we assessed intelligence quotient (IQ) score changes while adjusting for the effects of genetic influences and other factors shared by members of the same twin pair. Results suggest that familial confounds underlie the association between adolescent marijuana use and declining IQ scores
So we are back to my initial suggestion that it's environmental related more than anything.
Yes I do have an opinion, because I think saying shit like 'just like with alcohol' when we talk about cannabis, or generally suggesting that cannabis leads to a school dropouts and what not are old ideas that should not be so present in a modern, scientific, society
Edit:// adding the conclusion
> In the largest longitudinal examination of marijuana use and IQ change, using two samples to replicate results and a genetically informative design, we find little evidence to suggest that adolescent marijuana use has a direct effect on intellectual decline. Although marijuana users showed greater decline than nonusers in areas of Gc, the presence of baseline differences before marijuana involvement, the lack of a dose–response relationship, and an absence of meaningful differences between discordant siblings lead us to conclude that the deficits observed in marijuana users are attributable to confounding factors that influence both substance initiation and IQ rather than a neurotoxic effect of marijuana.
It is likely both... that's usually what happens. This study also stopped tracking the twins at age 20, which is far younger than most other studies.
Although our study evaluated a subset of subjects who had been daily users over the course of 6 mo to a year, all participants were still young adults at their last assessment. Perhaps regular use over a more prolonged period would result in greater differentiation across groups. This is a possible explanation for the discrepancy of our findings from those of Meier et al. (23), whose subjects were aged 38 y at their last assessment. We additionally were not able to differentiate current heavy users from former heavy users, and thus our results cannot disentangle the acute from nonacute effects of marijuana use on intellectual functioning.
To me this makes the conclusions pretty useless. They are still adolescents, not adults. They haven't used cannabis over a long period of time, which seems to be the real determining factor.
> cannabis leads to a school dropouts
Yeah, well that's my personal experience. I watched it happen in my own life. If that's not good enough for your "modern, scientific, society", why bother making this topic? I thought you wanted personal experiences.
1. Correlation vs. causation is unclear. Is the decline in IQ due to the smoking, or did smoking coincide or even result from other life factors that impact neurological development? Drug use is common among those with certain psychological illnesses, but it may be a coping mechanism as opposed to the cause, or otherwise differently related than what you are suggesting.
2. IQ testing is not a robust measure of intelligence or capability. There are plenty of fantastic criticisms explaining the problems with IQ testing being used in academia. At best, IQ scores are simply a measure of how well subjects perform with the spatial reasoning logical processing methods used in IQ tests, and not wholly representative of the intelligence or capability of the subject.
It worked great as a way to relax, enjoy some anime / movies / youtube and then fall asleep after everyone in the house quieted the f down. Your tastebuds on weed are an amazing experience as well. I also managed to vape with friends a few times, which was fun.
I got a vaporiser because I care about my health and didn't want to smoke paper. Very little smell, no effect on walls, easy to operate.
The only annoyance was having to use the black market to buy it which implies firing up tails, transferring bitcoins / monero, hoping the guy won't flat out scam you or that your package would be stopped. Basically the buying process wasn't stress free, so after a couple of years I just decided I wouldn't buy it anymore. The high stress points was also on the way down so I was a bit more relaxed.
I still vape if I'm somewhere where it's legal and I would definitely vape every once and then if it were legal in my country.
After a couple of years of almost daily use I stopped cold turkey and nothing happened. I was worried I would have problems with falling asleep but that didn't happen.
After 2 more years I started being stressed again (for work reasons) and I had trouble with sleep again. I self cured it with a beer every once and then (which is as much a depressant as weed). I'm not happy about the extra calories and I'm not happy about how mild and less relaxing it is - but it's easier to buy than weed.
Glad it helped you! And interesting to hear that stopping isn't the only way too ;)
I was a heavy smoker back then (would roll two joints at the end of the night, one before I slept and one to “wake and bake” with) and just knocked it on the head.
I will still have a joint on special occasions (basically when I’ve been out with friends who still smoke) but I treat those times like a night of heavy drinking and try to make sure I’m not planning to work the next day as I’m not normally in the mood to code the next day being a “very very light smoker” these days I find it hits me harder these days then it used too, but that could also just be age :-p
It somehow just smoothes everything down and makes me less sensitive to sound and light.
It's not solving the pain, but it allows me to stand up and get a glass of water and a painkiller.
Also it makes my auras more bearable that sometimes knock me out for a day or two after the fact.
Edit:// something that actually helps me is micro dosing mushrooms. If my aura shows up and I notice I can almost always avoid the migraine attack. Micro dosing LSD works too, but I usually still get a headache.
I sound like I have a drug problem maybe, but I tried many things before I said fuck it and growed some shrooms I only use for my migraines
I haven't heard about using mushrooms for migraine, sounds interesting. How much do you actually take? Does it effect your ability to be productive?
I don't know the exact dosage, also because all shrooms are different. I take about 1/20 to 1/10 of the recommended dosage for a small trip (as sites like erowid describe it) that's ~0.25g for mine (dried golden teacher).
My current favourite is some which I put in honey for a few months and then dissolved in a bottle of gin, and filtered the mushies out. My magic honey gin :) appearantly it's not really stable in Alkohol but its still as effective as it was a year ago, plus the sugar and Alkohol make it work super fast.
Honestly I can only recommend to try it, it's such a freeing feeling to know you have an escape plan for the worst days. Also if you go for growing them yourself this is super interesting and not as hard as some make it to be (pf-tek)