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Ask HN: Which vintage computers do you find interesting?

55 points by albertkoz ↗ HN
I recently got into retro computers. Besides just buying them, I want to actually experience and use the technology. So far I've spent most of my time with a C64: programming and learning different system quirks. Programming on these machines is really something else!

Right now I have my eyes on Acorn. Mostly because they were the first ARM/RISC computers available in the market (to the best of my knowledge), but I would also love to hear other recommendations. I want to acquire something interesting, that would be challenging and rewarding to program with.

141 comments

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johng
Wanted to pick up some old SGI stuff but it’s still hard to get and very expensive.
gnufx
I did try to tell people there was money in old SGI and Sun kit rather than just scrapping it (and then had to buy spares from a scavenger of Sun kit I know of before Sun shut them down). I didn't realize there was much of a market for real SGIs now, though. We used to have a literal stack of Indys to swap in when one off maintenance packed up. Now I only have a mouse somewhere.
[dead] redis_mlc
A lot of Open Source code has been hard to build on SGI since around 2000. So don't get too excited if you're planning to use it for anything aside from museum exhibits.

And if you're in SV, you can always visit the Computer History Museum to see them.

johng
Old Amiga stuff is still attainable and supposedly really rewarding to play with/program.
Dracophoenix
Which models are attainable in particular? I've always wanted to have a Video Toaster capable machine (A4000T especially) but I can't seem to find them anywhere.
s800
A2000 is far more obtainable, sometimes already found with a Video Toaster installed. And with PiStorm and other plug in accelerators, the processing power of the 2000 vs 4000 (with some caveats) is less important.

Also the A4000T is very 'collectible' right now. $$$

Dracophoenix
I'm not really concerned with the onboard 680x0 processing power or lack thereof (as you pointed out, accelerators solve that), so much as I am concerned with MMU and FPU support while keeping the AGA graphics chipset. If you know of a better solution with a less expensive model, say an A1200 (which has AGA), I'm all ears. With that said, I haven't read of the A1200 being Toaster-capable.
bediger4000
Radio Shack Color Computer III - they had a multi-tasking OS, OS-9, that worked via memory bank switching. It had a windowing system that worked via in-band signalling, which is quite different than any windowing system today.
drewzero1
I have a CoCo 1 that I picked up at a thrift store while missing my childhood Apple ][e. While learning about the CoCo I discovered that it had its own rich ecosystem, and I've come to really love this black sheep of the TRS-80 family.

Someday I'd like to pick up a CoCo 3 and disk drive(s), it really seems like a leap forward from the capabilities of my original CoCo.

wisemanwillhear
I grew up on a Color Computer 2 (Coco 2) (Exact same specs as the Coco 1 but reduced number of chips, making it cheaper I understand). Learning to program on it as early as 7 years old got me hooked on software development. Later someone gave us a Coco 3, which was too little, too late be a market success. Still, there was something attractive about the simplicity of those old 8-bit computers.

At the end of the day, the majority of 8 bit home computers didn't have a path forward that included more powerful CPUs with advanced features and backwards compatibility and were always doomed for eventual obsoleting.

peatmoss
Yes, we had a CoCo2 as well. What I mostly remember was the cassette recorder disk drive, which was kind of like recorded modem sounds. There were a handful of games that plugged in via a cartridge on the side (like an NES, but usually with more boring games). But then there were some commercial games distributed on cassette tape as well, such as this one:

https://www.pixelatedarcade.com/games/taxi

watersb
Learning to write 6809 Assembly language programs set me up quite nicely for the wave 32-bit 68000 machines.

But yes, I think microcomputers had to get more complicated to move forward. The original Macintosh team worked like mad to keep the hardware design as simple as possible, but virtually no computer manufacturer could afford a project like that.

(The first Mac hardware prototype was a 6809 board. Not a CoCo :-)

pcdoodle
Slot 1 based Pentium 2/3. The golden age.
h2odragon
imo the standout of that era was the Abit BP6 board that let you run dual celerons and overclock the hell out of them. The p2's had half speed cache on those slot cards, and the celerons usually beat them in my real world applications on memory latency.
xkeysc0re
The C64 is really sweet - one of my goals is to eventually develop a game for it (thinking a monorail/train sim like a simplified version of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Densha_de_Go!_2_K%C5%8Dsoku-he...)

Right now I'm interested in the Phillips MSX systems and PC Engine, as they both have a catalogue of unique platform-specific games (such as the original Metal Gear!) and are less-trodden territory for retrocomputing which, alas, makes them a little pricier. But part of the fun of retrocomputing is that it can be a passive hobby where you set some price alerts on ebay and craigslist and then try and go for the score.

If you haven't, be sure to check out https://old.reddit.com/r/retrobattlestations/

markus_zhang
I just purchased a C64 Mini. Can't afford a real C64 and its maintenance but a Mini is well in the budget. It's essentially an emulator running on another computer but I think it would be a nice place to play some classic games and write my own assembly code!
albertkoz
I bought mine real C64 cheaper than Mini. I live in central Europe and you can grab c64 here with cables etc. for around $40-50.
markus_zhang
That's really neat. In Canada it's probably some 200 bucks plus delivery :/

Where do you hunt these stuffs? Ebay?

albertkoz
Local ads websites & facebook groups. More likely to get something cheap. Ebay like sites are usually full of traders, that resell them for profit.
markus_zhang
Thanks for the tip. Yeah I found out that ebay price is pretty high. I'll probably find some local groups.
the_only_law
I’m into a weird part of retrocomputing where I mess with things other than just general purpose computers. Most of my equipment is old network/telecom stuff (mostly ISDN and general T1/E1 stuff rn, but I want to get into ATM) and network analyzers. Notably my Agilent J2300E which is a massive Windows 98 machine that look like a laptop but contains all sorts of sync and async serial interfaces too expensive to put on modern PCs (go find how much it costs to get a V.35 adapter) as well as all sorts of modules for various interfaces lile token ring, fddi, fast Ethernet, T1/E1, ISDN BRI, ATM, etc. It also has a nice software suite for emulation / analysis. If you’re curious why do have all this shit, in currently working on a user mode ISDN stack for Linux, which is keeping my love for programming on life support.

But to answer the question, here’s what on my wishlist:

HP-86 - recently sold my HP-85 with serial and GPIB expansions which I regret and will hopefully pick up an HP-86 to replace it eventually. Finding the serial and GPIB cartridges again my he a task.

Lisp machines, particularly a MacIvory - no chance I get my hands on one anytime soon.

One of the Tektronix Smalltalk Workstations - Will probably never even see one in my lifetime.

DEC VAXstation - May be purchasing one of the larger ones later this year. Will probably stick NetBSD on it.

DEC AlphaServer - Particularly models of which I find aesthetically pleasing. Not a Compaq or HP AlphaServer. The ones I like are always just a bit out of my price range. Will probably stick NetBSD on it.

IBM 5100 (running APL) - rare and always too expensive on the occasion I see one for sale

PDP-X - Actually a chance I might be able to run into a DEC PDP machine and be able to afford it someday.

I kinda want an early AS400 , but will settle for a not quite retro iSeries.

Not quite computers, but I also want:

HP 700/70 - A windowing terminal which was based off an old window standard for terminals called AlphaWindows (for which I also need to find the spec because the current implementations are currently commercial software). I’ve see a few listings for these terminals, but always super shady.

X.25 Equipment - PAD’s, switches, etc. I’m starting to thing X.25 was a legend because I have yet to find anything hardware related to it.

Anyway my end goal it to have a crazy home network with all the crazy protocols I hack on sectioned off and connected to the main (modern Ethernet) LAN with my retro stuff sitting on various networks.

gnufx
Tasteful. LSI-11 for the likely cheapest PDP (though we weren't -11 fans)?

X.25 may have been legendary, but certainly not mythical! It was what the UK academic network ran on long ago, and worked well, but was steamrollered by IP (which ran over it for a while). I was rather surprised at how primitive computing/networking was at the US equivalent lab when I spent a summer there. I wouldn't know where to look for kit now, but it's surprising what lurks in the bowels of academic establishments! I've seen suggestions it's still in use in other environments. There was something of a competition for the most obsolete bits found by out Field Support.

Edit: There's probably assorted X.25 in Jim Austin's collection, specifically on the GEC 41xx: http://www.computermuseum.org.uk/

lucidphreak
I hope you are part of NPSTN and the various phreaking discord groups.. LOTS of old switching stuff going on there.. some people from Binrev, etc... good to meet you. I probably already know you. :) -lucidphreak
the_only_law
I am not familiar with these groups, being rather new to the whole thing, but I would love to find them!
cbxyp
Transmeta CPUs were cool
robin_reala
I went backwards and forwards on buying a Sony PCG-C1VN subnotebook at one point, which was powered by a Transmeta chip. In the end I went for an Inspiron instead which was probably the sensible decision, but I regret it sometimes.
gnufx
I'd suggest more interesting systems, but probably interesting in inverse proportion to how you could get hold of one :-/. Not wanting to dampen enthusiasm for old systems, but was there anything radically different about things like C64 and Acorn products?

If you don't need hardware, there might be more interest in programming on simulators for various old systems.

renewedrebecca
For the C64 at least, the cool thing is the absolute lack of abstractions. The entire memory map is known. The entire Kernal is documented. The hardware, totally explained. You can actually know everything there is to know about the whole machine. Totally different than modern computing / coding.
gnufx
Good point, that we've mostly gone backwards in that respect. Sites did used to have source for all the software and hack on it, and detailed docs on the hardware that wasn't self-built.
h2odragon
I liked the Victor 9000's [1]; much like IBM PC's but better in several ways. never really caught on.

[1] http://www.oldcomputers.net/victor9000.html

specialist
Terrific link, thanks. So many memories. So many surprises; mfg and models I hadn't heard of.

These vintage computers always remind me of the accompanying printers. Daisy well, dot matrix, line printers... There's probably catalogs of those as well.

Ah, nostalgia.

billconan
In the 90s, I once saw a commercial on a magazine selling a notebook computer that looks like a cheese. I always wanted it, but I don’t recall the brand.
rotexo
Atari ST 520/1040, for the built-in MIDI ports and retro sequencing software.
JohnFen
Do replicas count? I recently got a fully functional PDP-11 replica, running RSTS. This is currently my favorite vintage computer, because the PDP-11 happens to be the very first computer I ever programmed on.
eismcc
Z80 machines w/ CP/M and the IMSAI 8080. I like the old IMSAI 8080 machines and got to use one many years ago and it’s fun and visceral to program with machine code. direct understanding.
stevekemp
I've spent the past few months playing around with a simple single-board Z80-based system, running CP/M 2.x

I even wrote a simple text-based adventure game for it, first in C, then in z80 assembly.

I grew up with the ZX Spectrum, so the Z80 is a processor I remember fondly.

kiawe_fire
I grew up during the monolithic Windows XP / 7 era, so vintage computers (especially 80s) has fascinated me.

Glad I’m not alone!

Haven’t acquired any myself yet, but I’d like to. In fact I’m glad to hear you’re having fun with the C64 since I figured that would be my first one.

Recommendations?

The lisp machines are really cool, and I believe the MSX has been mentioned.

However one that I keep coming back to with fascination is the Sharp X68000, a Japanese computer based on the Motorola 68k.

It used hardware very similar to late 80s and early 90s arcade games, and in fact has excellent ports of things like Street Fighter 2.

But the whole aesthetic of it, along with what it could output for graphics and sound - as an outsider, it looks like it was way ahead of the US and UK computers of the time (the closest contender being the Amiga).

Would love to pick one up and try writing some code for it someday, although I expect I’ll need to brush up on my Japanese.

albertkoz
I got my first computer in the early 90's, so for the very same reason vintage computers fascinate me. I started with C64 as it's cheap and got amazing community around. To this day, couple of brand new games are released every year. Mine got wifi card and SD card reader. I actually got already 3 different commodore64 models, as I couldn't decide which one I like the most. Amigas are great, but they also are getting expensive. I bought my c64 for 50 Euro with the cables etc.
SMAAART
Amiga. It's my secret love.

But I also wouldn't mind a Cray-1.

elliottkember
GEM on an Amstrad. We had one when I was a kid. I played so many cool old games on it.
drunkenmagician
Classic Mac plus, NeXt cube, Sun IPS workstation. All from the computer era when I got started. These are the machines that inspired me.

Would love to have working versions of any, but near impossible now I’m living in Singapore :(

albertkoz
I got classic Mac, unfortunately I find it quite boring. I would love to get NeXt but these are really expensive nowadays.
drewzero1
Yeah old Macs on their own are very dull computers. Once you start to get into third-party tweaks and games that push the hardware to its limits are where it really starts to get interesting.

My favorite classic Macs are the ones with color screens and CD-ROM drives. The multimedia possibilities really start to open up! I have a Performa 575[1] that was just about perfect for this, but it suffered a fall in storage that shattered the case. If it ends up being a total loss I'm going to start looking for a Power Mac 5200[2] which is better looking and can run early PowerPC applications.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_LC_500_series [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Macintosh_5200_LC

albertkoz
Thanks! I acquired my first vintage Mac couple months ago (two Macintosh Classic) and I was very surprised with the machines. I think I need to look more into what was possible. Thank you for the ideas, I will definitely look into getting another early Mac computer.
smackeyacky
Maybe look for a macintosh ii, big desktop case and some were able to run a unix variant. Otherwise the SE30 was the ducks nuts of the classic macs.
drewzero1
The Macintosh Classic is my favorite compact Mac, even if the SE/30 was technically miles ahead. The Classic looks the best (in my '90s-biased opinion) and is the only one that has a working operating system in ROM, which I think is pretty cool. I traded a Mac SE (FD800) for mine and haven't looked back.

I also really enjoy the LC line, especially the pizza box form factor. They have similar styling to the Classic but have a color monitor, and still don't take up much space. There was also an Apple][-on-a-card that could plug into an LC's expansion port and allow it to run Apple ][ software... I haven't tracked one of those down yet, but I see them come up occasionally.

crmrc114
I have a collection of SGI gear I grabbed before the retro community jacked the price up. Also I have a couple hp pa risc machines. Apollo's etc. I still love the UX in Irix and think that windows 2k was peak windows.
hulitu
I would love to play again with DomainOS on Apollo. Such a pity that the harddrives did not lasted so long.
jazzyjackson
While the hardware for the ILLIAC is out of my league as a collector, I’d like to figure out a way to emulate the PLATO software that would run on the amber-colored terminals. I read about it in “computer lib/dream machines” alongside lots of other early timesharing systems.

I always wanted to play with HyperCard too, shouldn’t be too tough to get an old G4 mac booted into it, right?

kolleykibber
I pulled an Amstrad cpc464 out of the loft at the beginning of the year and headed deep down the rabbit hole. For me the most interesting thing is interfacing with modern microcontrollers. Pics, stm32, esp(s) etc. There's something about telneting to BBS over the internet from a machine from 1985. The wargames effect maybe. Standouts for the CPC include the M4 board, the dandanator and the USIFAC. I have a lot of respect for those who built these. Despite an engineering degree and a 25 year career my low level knowledge has expanded greatly from playing with these things. It's also been a lot of fun.
albertkoz
Amstrad is definitely one of the machines I want to buy at some point. I really like the design.
eb0la
Some friends discovered during quarantine their old Amstrads still worked but their monitors weren't. Don't remember if they were green phospor CRT or color.
locao
My current setup is a 10yo Mac Mini running Linux. Does that count as vintage? :)
lormayna
I am looking for a Cobalt Qube since long time. Unfortunately, they are very difficult to find.
cyberge99
I may have a blue one in my storage unit, along with a Raq. If I ever discover it, I’ll ping you.
Sodaware
I grew up with an Atari ST and I've enjoyed revisiting it. Growing up I stuck to really simple stuff, so it's been fun to to learn more about how it all works. There's a library called Atari Game Tools (AGT) that can do some really impressive things even on a stock STFM. With cross-compilation tools it's possible to build software on a PC in a few seconds before testing in an emulator.

The VIC-20 is another fun machine to work with. There's not much memory and the way it handles graphics is quite interesting.

[1] AGT: https://bitbucket.org/d_m_l/agtools/wiki/Home