Best time to plant a tree is 500 years ago, and now is not too bad, either.
I got vaccinated against a lot of maladies while in the service, and while I still have some lasting nerve damage I accept it as part of the cost of protecting the group.
Guillain–Barré syndrome[0] is a rare reaction to vaccination that causes the body to attack its own nerves and damage the myelin sheath. Possibly related?
Us military isn't exactly known for limiting soldiers exposure to awful chemicals. Seems like all my vet friends and family members have some kind of malady caused by exposure to random toxins.
No idea. My point was to promote vaccination, even if there might be potential side effects in a small number of people. I accept that risk to help others. I’m not sure the vaccinations or physical injections are even the cause.
What did you get nerve damage from? I assume it wasn't from the vaccines, but someone might infer this and point out a reason why we should avoid them.
Guillain–Barré syndrome[0] is a rare reaction to vaccination that causes the body to attack its own nerves and damage the myelin sheath. Possibly related?
All vaccines have the occasional rare side effect; Guillian-Barré is one of the more well known ones, and people get it from the flu shot each year. It's also quite clear the COVID vaccines haven't killed 600k in the US like the disease has, though. As with any other health intervention, the cost/benefits have to be weighed; they have been continue to be with regards to the vaccines.
Good point, thanks. My point was vaccines are great, and I’m sorry to give fuel for doubt. I don’t think my numb thigh was due to any of the vaccines, but rather the needles. It could also be unrelated, and I’ve erroneously linked them. It’s gotten neither worse nor better in the last handful of years, and is a minor concern, as far as I know.
FWIW I have a friend, a former Marine who refuses to get the vaccine because of his experience in the military. He has diabetes and blames the vaccines he got while stationed in the middle east.
Perhaps that is because there is an indisputable truth to what he/she is saying, and that there is more subjectivity to the vaccine debate than meets the eye.
It adds to the list of required vaccines for service members, in case people have forgotten that there are plenty of other vaccines people receive for generally non-fatal ailments (many of which they already received themselves!). Also they want to wait for FDA approval, assuming it happens in September, but allow themselves the discretion to require it before then.
How is it safe when the fda has not approved these vaccines nor has there been any studies on the permanent adverse effects some have experienced as a result of taking this vaccine?
Every side effect this vaccine has caused is also caused in far greater numbers by Covid itself. No vaccine has ever had a new side effect after 9 weeks of administration in the history of medicine. And the mandate for the military is timed to be after full FDA approval which is a formality at this point.
Approval is fully expected by pretty much everyone. No vaccine in the approval process has ever had so much data to base the decision on, and that data remains very positive.
Because anti-vaccine FUD like this previously threatened our ability to produce them, leading to a specific system for evaluating claims and paying out damages.
Be honest: Would FDA approval and extra safety studies actually move the needle for you as implied, or would you consider it all a part of Big Pharma's conspiracies?
>Be honest: Would FDA approval and extra safety studies actually move the needle for you as implied, or would you consider it all a part of Big Pharma's conspiracies?
If it had the same review time as all other vaccines (even if I think the term "vaccine" is wrong in this case), absolutely.
> If it had the same review time as all other vaccines
Good news - it has! Approval is expected this month, delayed largely by the fact that the actual wait is one of the few bits of red tape they can’t speed through.
Because the vaccine was released almost a year prior and it didn't have approval but governments and individuals wanted it so bad.
If that's what validates your reality, then call your senators about removing the exemption from liability after the FDA approval. Advocate for that.
One thing I've been having fun with is imagining how people will move the goalpost after the FDA decision. I wonder how many people upon approval will say "ah the FDA is controlled by big pharma and other shadow masters!" If not approved "ha I knew it!" I wonder how many others will read the clinical trial studies the the FDA is evaluating (which are already available now) and reach a conclusion that agrees with the FDA.
Would you buy a vehicle that skips third party quality control? I think most people would not. Especially if it’s something going into their bodies. I’m for science, but hearing vaccinated people able to get infected with the delta variant tells me these vaccines aren’t as effective. We’ve had people survive covid when no vaccines existed. Were they just lucky?
The vaccines have not skipped quality control. They've done all the testing required by the FDA.
Vaccines are not 100% effective. The vast vast majority of people who have been vaccinated have not been infected with covid, delta variant or not. A very small number have been infected, an extremely small number of those have been hospitalized and an infinitesimal percentage of people who have been vaccinated have died compared to the millions of unvaccinated people who have died from it.
We've had millions of unvaccinated people die from covid and almost nobody vaccinated die from covid. So yes, the people who survived without vaccines were comparatively lucky.
But now that there are vaccines dying from covid isn't unlucky, it's an unfortunate choice made by people who listen to people such as yourself spread lies about the vaccines. By spreading misinformation you are contributing to the deaths of thousands.
How many millions of human trials will satisfy you without an FDA rubber stamp? Will FDA approval matter, or will you move on to your next talking point?
The vaccines were never supposed to prevent infection 100%. Since the very beginning they've had varying degrees of effectiveness, this was widely reported every day since before the emergency authorizations in November 2020.
They are functioning as advertised, as intended, as expected.
Clear your cookies since the internet isn't even allowing you to see other information.
If I worked at a pharma company and the government expected me to develop a vaccine in record time, I would probably bargain for zero-liabilities in advance.
Let's query the 1.2B people on Earth who have already gotten it. I think that's a large enough sample size to extract safety (spoiler: it's incredibly safe).
The technology behind the mRNA vaccines has been studied for 30+ years and there's absolutely 0 evidence of permanent adverse effects that wouldn't be known by now. At what point will you be satisfied?
It seems that the lipid delivery was trickier than the mRNA payload:
> Over more than 3 decades, promising lipids studied in the lab often failed to live up to their potential when tested in animals or humans. Positively charged lipids are inherently toxic, and companies struggled for years before landing on formulations that were safe and effective. [0]
Lots of other details in this article of the problems they had over several decades finding lipids that worked and weren't toxic, wouldn't accumulate in the liver, etc.
The lipids used in the covid vaccines don't go back that far:
> The first time the FDA approved the use of lipid nanoparticles as a drug delivery system was in 2018, when the agency approved the first siRNA drug, Onpattro.[56] Encapsulating the mRNA molecule in lipid nanoparticles was a critical breakthrough for producing viable mRNA vaccines, solving a number of key technical barriers in delivering the mRNA molecule into the host cell. [1]
So they had something approved in 2018 for shorter siRNA payloads, but had to scramble since then to figure out something that would handle an mRNA payload.
Does anyone know what the penalty will be for refusing to get vaccinated - eg honorable or dishonorable discharge? I don't see anything mentioned about it in the OP or linked sources.
EDIT: I found the answer - "Personnel unable or unwilling to do that will be required to wear a mask, physically distance, comply with a regular testing requirement and be subject to official travel restrictions" [1]
I do see this as a precursor to mandating vaccinations of the able public, and as much as setting that particular precident scares me it seems necessary at this point.
Social distancing directives have proven to be effective when enforced, but time and time again we are seeing outbreaks when and where those restrictions are ignored. For all of the fears about possible side effects of the vaccine, we seem to be getting away from the original issue:
For every day that we delay, more people will die.
Could it really be a precedent when polio vaccines have been mandatory in all states for generations of children.
Suggest we're just making up what authoritative idea would be considered a precedent.
Republics or Representative Democracies or whatever can and do authoritative things. Typically you regulate the intermediary instead of regulate the individual, ie school admission requiring it, military service requiring it, travel requiring it etc.
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[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 121 ms ] threadI got vaccinated against a lot of maladies while in the service, and while I still have some lasting nerve damage I accept it as part of the cost of protecting the group.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain-Barr%C3%A9_syndrome
Is nerve damage a common side-effect from military vaccinations?
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain-Barr%C3%A9_syndrome
EU lists rare nerve disorder as side-effect of J&J COVID-19 vaccine : https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...
All vaccines have the occasional rare side effect; Guillian-Barré is one of the more well known ones, and people get it from the flu shot each year. It's also quite clear the COVID vaccines haven't killed 600k in the US like the disease has, though. As with any other health intervention, the cost/benefits have to be weighed; they have been continue to be with regards to the vaccines.
Why do you assume that? What risks do you believe vaccines to have and not have?
0: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11731639/
It adds to the list of required vaccines for service members, in case people have forgotten that there are plenty of other vaccines people receive for generally non-fatal ailments (many of which they already received themselves!). Also they want to wait for FDA approval, assuming it happens in September, but allow themselves the discretion to require it before then.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Vaccine_Injury_Compen...
Be honest: Would FDA approval and extra safety studies actually move the needle for you as implied, or would you consider it all a part of Big Pharma's conspiracies?
If it had the same review time as all other vaccines (even if I think the term "vaccine" is wrong in this case), absolutely.
Good news - it has! Approval is expected this month, delayed largely by the fact that the actual wait is one of the few bits of red tape they can’t speed through.
If that's what validates your reality, then call your senators about removing the exemption from liability after the FDA approval. Advocate for that.
One thing I've been having fun with is imagining how people will move the goalpost after the FDA decision. I wonder how many people upon approval will say "ah the FDA is controlled by big pharma and other shadow masters!" If not approved "ha I knew it!" I wonder how many others will read the clinical trial studies the the FDA is evaluating (which are already available now) and reach a conclusion that agrees with the FDA.
Vaccines are not 100% effective. The vast vast majority of people who have been vaccinated have not been infected with covid, delta variant or not. A very small number have been infected, an extremely small number of those have been hospitalized and an infinitesimal percentage of people who have been vaccinated have died compared to the millions of unvaccinated people who have died from it.
We've had millions of unvaccinated people die from covid and almost nobody vaccinated die from covid. So yes, the people who survived without vaccines were comparatively lucky.
But now that there are vaccines dying from covid isn't unlucky, it's an unfortunate choice made by people who listen to people such as yourself spread lies about the vaccines. By spreading misinformation you are contributing to the deaths of thousands.
The existence of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesna_Vulovi%C4%87 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliane_Koepcke and similar "fell from plane without parachute" survivors doesn't mean jumping out of a plane without a parachute is the right call.
No one has ever asserted COVID has a 100% mortality rate.
They are functioning as advertised, as intended, as expected.
Clear your cookies since the internet isn't even allowing you to see other information.
> Over more than 3 decades, promising lipids studied in the lab often failed to live up to their potential when tested in animals or humans. Positively charged lipids are inherently toxic, and companies struggled for years before landing on formulations that were safe and effective. [0]
Lots of other details in this article of the problems they had over several decades finding lipids that worked and weren't toxic, wouldn't accumulate in the liver, etc.
The lipids used in the covid vaccines don't go back that far:
> The first time the FDA approved the use of lipid nanoparticles as a drug delivery system was in 2018, when the agency approved the first siRNA drug, Onpattro.[56] Encapsulating the mRNA molecule in lipid nanoparticles was a critical breakthrough for producing viable mRNA vaccines, solving a number of key technical barriers in delivering the mRNA molecule into the host cell. [1]
So they had something approved in 2018 for shorter siRNA payloads, but had to scramble since then to figure out something that would handle an mRNA payload.
[0] https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/drug-delivery/Without-li...
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_vaccine
The right criterion: “Less dangerous than the disease itself”.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28108657
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v...
EDIT: I found the answer - "Personnel unable or unwilling to do that will be required to wear a mask, physically distance, comply with a regular testing requirement and be subject to official travel restrictions" [1]
[1] Statement by Jamal Brown, Deputy Pentagon Press Secretary, on COVID-19 Vaccinations https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Releases/Release/Article/27...
Social distancing directives have proven to be effective when enforced, but time and time again we are seeing outbreaks when and where those restrictions are ignored. For all of the fears about possible side effects of the vaccine, we seem to be getting away from the original issue:
For every day that we delay, more people will die.
Suggest we're just making up what authoritative idea would be considered a precedent.
Republics or Representative Democracies or whatever can and do authoritative things. Typically you regulate the intermediary instead of regulate the individual, ie school admission requiring it, military service requiring it, travel requiring it etc.