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Nice, you could boil a cup of water for your tea just by putting it outside.
Hopefully that's a record in Fahrenheit...
Not even half way to boiling really. Although it refers to Europe, it is using farenheit as its scale, as it is a US based publication.

Although for that reason temperature measurements should always include the type for reference.

"Halfway" from where?
Freezing (0C). Halfway through the liquid phase of water. Seems like an at-least-somewhat reasonable starting point.
Halfway from 0°C, the freezing point of water.
It also depends on the altitude. At a high enough altitude it would be boiling.
It's an important point that multiplying and dividing temperatures in F or C makes no sense. Some people are somehow assuming half way from freezing which is arbitrary. Would a F user assume it means half way from 32F or 0F?
Even with Celsius, perhaps not impossible at the right altitude, low convection, and with a dark color for better radiative absorption.
Maybe, with the right lens...
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Pfft, just step outside and you'll never have to worry about tea for the rest of your life!
It's Fahrenheit.

I'm not even sure if this is deliberate clickbait or not, but that the article puts Celcius before Fahrenheit elsewhere suggests it is.

I could hardly believe these temperatures; it's 49°C apparently.

that's 48.8 degrees, in europe (and elsewhere in the world)
48.8 °C. Degrees alone means a vector.
This acute comment lays bare the obtuse headline
Quite right!
Tip: the world uses Metric system. USA is the exception.
UK uses miles for distance, stones for weight, and I'm pretty certain that many things in the US are measured using metric.

The real question I have is ... who really cares? I certainly don't complain when someone uses a celsius temperature, I just convert it to terms I'm more comfortable with.

> who really cares

Engineers, Scientists, Mechanics, Carpenters, etc.

No, these people do not care. People on the Internet care. Engineers, scientists, mechanics, and carpenters in the US do just fine with imperial measurements.
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People who work in varying units all the time and for whom a conversion is second nature mostly DGAF.
Celsius is as arbitrary as Fahrenheit. Really, it's the one unit where it does not matter. Meters, kilogram, seconds, volt, ampere... they all stand in relation to each other. Celsius doesn't, you'd have to go to Kelvin for that (which is derived from Celsius, but Celsius is still useless by itself).

I'm European, grew up with Celsius and am therefore more comfortable with it, so hardly any bias there.

The size of the degree matters in some contexts. But, yeah, if your focus is on the "right" system from an engineering/science perspective, Kelvin should be being used.
>UK uses miles for distance,

meters are used too. On roads you have longer distance in miles, but width, weight and short distance in meters. Many rural areas in Wales have signs "120m to beach".

> meters are used too

Sometimes we use those in the US, too. Context dependent.

There are marker posts in meters along the side of our motorways too!
> UK uses miles for distance, stones for weight, and I'm pretty certain that many things in the US are measured using metric.

UK is the same bad example of choosing using units of measure as US is.

> I certainly don't complain when someone uses a celsius temperature

because you shouldnt? it is a world standard.

> UK is the same bad example of choosing using units of measure as US is.

The US at least tried to use the metric system.

Axios is a US centric media company, so why would you expect them to not use US centric notation? I realize some people have trouble doing the conversion in their head, but most kids in the US learn the formula in grade school, it isn't a big deal. Plus you can just google it.
> The real question I have is ... who really cares

Me, when the term “degrees” is used without further clarification.

I just read the material for context and convert if I need to. This publication is a US publication written for a US audience. In that context their choice makes sense. I can easily convert it to C.
Fair enough. I’m just of the opinion that a single byte of extra data (assuming ASCII) conveys an awful lot of contextual information, and can see few reasons to exclude it.
Read TFA. The celsius measurement is in the first sentence, listed before the farenheit equivalent.

"A weather station in Sicily may have set an all-time high temperature record for all of Europe on Wednesday, when the temperature climbed to a scorching 48.8°C (119.8°F) amid a regional heat wave that has shown few signs of relenting."

It’s a single byte of information, maybe 4 at a push. It doesn’t take much to include and avoids a lot of ambiguity.
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I think stones for weight is dying out here.

Miles per hour, no, that's not going anywhere, nor pints of beer, but it's hard to think of other imperial measurements in day to day use.

(and those are real pints, 26% larger than US 'pints'! So it just goes to show the imperial system isn't even consistent across countries. Yet another reason that the ISU/SI is superior...)

I’m in my 30s and don’t have a clue what a stone is. Stones is the kind of measurement my parents (who grew up with shillings etc) grew up with, but even my mother uses kilograms these days.
Fun fact, British gallons are larger than American gallons (160 fl oz vs 128). This makes fuel efficiency comparisons quite confusing. I can't find the article, but one American went as far as suing Volkswagen because he imported a car under the assumption that it would get 80 MPG.
It's a complete mess when working on actual engineering tasks, I can't imagine how many hours have been wasted converting/correcting between units used by standards versus projects.

There's also abominations like the Energy Efficiency Ratio expressed in Btu/Wh, which yes, you are reading it correctly, is the ratio of energy in IP to energy in SI. I honestly don't understand why something so useless exists.

Units actually should mean something. I use them as a quick way of intuiting about physical relationships and something like EER completely removes that intuition and just makes all EER values a stupid number to be memorized.

Not quite true, but mostly. In the UK we're more Imperial than metric, but anyone under the age of 50 will struggle with Fahrenheit.

But, our speed limits are miles per hours. More people weigh in stones and pounds than kg. Milk containers are going to litres, but we think in pints.

The world also uses completely different languages. The 50 states are the exception with English.

Just use a fking converter.

It sometimes seems like we're headed towards standardizing on English, though.
Why complain? I don't see a lot of comments on HN when the article is from Europe or someone else with the metric system. If you're reading something based in the US expect they will use Imperial measurements.
Italy, despite what many “eye-talyan” Americans might believe, is not in the US.
Not sure if you understand that Axios is based in Virginia. HN is based in California

Would I except something based in Europe to covert their measurements when talking about an American state or city? No and most would not.

Why would a writer convert to something foreign that their audience wouldn’t understand?

In Canada, when you go to the grocery store to buy produce they list the price in $/lbs.

When you go to the register to pay the price is recorded as $/kg.

:(

What a relief that we live in the computer age and you can convert units essentially instantly
How far back do the records go? That wasn't in the article. I'm also interested in where the temperature was taken - hard surface aircraft runways, sun traps etc are often a lot hotter than the overall average temperature.
Isn't it the meteorological standard that temperature should be taken in the shadow, 1m from the ground? Maybe other factors are taken into account.
That's what I understood but recently there has bee some questioning of where data has been captured
In India there is a running joke amongst physics teachers/professors that whenever a student forgets to write unit of measurement of the final answers they are mocked by saying 120 degrees what ? Banana ? Apple ? Centigrade ? Applies to this title too.
I don't think it's particularly ambiguous since anything other than Fahrenheit would imply that everyone is dead.
120 degrees Delisle is perfectly comfortable!
We overwhelmingly use Celcius for temperature in Europe though, so the Fahrenheit option isn't as obvious as it might be in the US.
It doesn't apply to this title. You'd have to be pretty dumb to think it's even possible for the temperature there to be 120c. Given the number and what it's describing it's easy to figure out which measure is being used. All this whinging over c/f is unnecessary.
And there are memes mocking teachers for doing exactly that, because it's just ridiculous pedantry when the unit is very clear from context.
This is indeed a bad title, and yet those professors you're talking about sound like assholes.

I remember being mocked by my professors at school as well when making a mistake. All it did was make me resent them for being assholes to me, it didn't teach me to use units more correctly.

If instead they simply had said "Celcius or Farenheit? You have to be explicit, because ...", I would have learned something and it would have stuck with me.

Professors being nice to students makes the students want to be nice in return, and want to learn as a result.

I still resent every single one of my high school professor that did this sort of shit. All they achieved was getting me to drop out. Joke's on them, I pursued the career they mocked and did better at it than they did at theirs.

And when I see other professors, coaches, teachers and mentors do this kind of shit to students today, I honestly want to slap them silly. This is why I'll continue mentoring whoever I can. Education is the single most important factor in our survival as a species, especially now.

I'm not AIcist, but it really shouldn't take more than a second to understand what the scale is.

120 degC = mass extinction. No one uses Reaumur and Kelvin is only used as a joke or by absolute pedants. Hence, it's Fahrenheit.

It could be read as a longitude if you’re poor in geography.
Poor in everything, I guess, since longitudes don't tend to move much over time.
In the US when someone says 120 degrees we automatically know what they are referring to. Beside you are reading a US article on a US based news aggregator.
Europe and °F in the same sentence is a terrible choice.
Not for an article that will be read (from the perspective of Axios) by 99% american audience.
> 120 degrees

please stop using dumb people units of measure.

I don't like Europe. Hard work is punished by an exponential progressive tax system and laziness is very welcome.
That's 48.8 Celsius for the non-americans.

Scrolling through the tweets, some people are saying it's likely a short spike in temperature due to foehn winds[0] and that this reading doesn't really mean much due to the source of the reading. Here's an interesting thread nitpicking things apart[1]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foehn_wind

[1] https://twitter.com/extremetemps/status/1425424519129407489

Like picking a od temperatures in the alps, near a lake, surrounded by mountains on all sides. Cold air sinks down, and gets stored down there. Good for records, bad for general temp monitoring.

Doesn't change the fact that these high temps are really bad.

Yeah, if the replies to that tweet are to be believed there have been even higher measurements from similar European weather stations under similar circumstances that simply weren't recognized as records due to the measurement issues.
Global warming is about average temperature increases. Individual one-off high temperatures only gives ammunition to climate deniers when they see a record low temperature somewhere in the world.

It does more harm than good to raise the climate change alarm for these events, and requires some statistical gymnastics to conclusively tie it to global warming.

The real alarms are more than sufficient.

> Global warming is about average temperature increases. Individual one-off high temperatures only gives ammunition to climate deniers when they see a record low temperature somewhere in the world.

That is why it got rebranded to climate change. Yes, it is about the global average temperature, but that is too abstract for people to understand, and exactly gets discussed when "they see a record low temperature somewhere in the world."

> Individual one-off high temperatures only gives ammunition to climate deniers when they see a record low temperature somewhere in the world.

Everything and anything gives climate change deniers ammunition. I think, it doesn't make sense to try to placate people, which are essentially inaccessible to decades of scientific reports, and more and more news like this one. No need to self-censure here.

> It does more harm than good to raise the climate change alarm for these events, and requires some statistical gymnastics to conclusively tie it to global warming

You do not have to conclusively tie individual events to global warming. The point here is, that those news come in more and more often. It is something people directly experience. And that is very much a real alarm.

>>You do not have to conclusively tie individual events to global warming. The point here is, that those news come in more and more often.

Do they? Feels more like media frenzy, trying to connect every weather phenomenon to climate change. Every year around IPCC report release there is an uptick of everything weather related being attributed to climate change.

Climate change involves more extreme weather events, including anomalous temperatures in both directions. An increase in average temperatures doesn't do as much visible damage as an increase in probability of long-tail events. It is accurate and important to connect statistically extreme weather events to climate change.
This is not the case with Italy, but what are we going to do with uninhabitable areas in the future? Think the horn of Africa or parts of the Middle East.

Large parts of MENA are already de facto lawless areas, where the official government doesn't exert any meaningful control, due to political factors.

Now throw in deadly year-round climates on top.

Every piece of land on this planet is claimed as sovereign territory by one state or another, except Antarctica.

What if millions of square miles of land become progressively climate no man's lands? Will local governments even bother claiming these lands for themselves?

What? Extract the resources and not live there. Settle Antarctica. Murder the mass refugees. The usual shit.

And yeah, countries will claim and fight over useless pieces of land. There's plenty of people who can be sent to die defending or occupying it.

Don't like reality? Downvote and live in lalaland until a "sudden tragedy" happens "out of nowhere".

Iran-Iraq War vibes, tfw lose 100k men only for status quo antebellum. if i get drafted i am deserting to Russia ASAP.
Afghanistan now, lol. What a load of bullshit.
dang, can you edit the title to maybe say "120°F/48.8°C" or some such?

Lest most of the comments continue to be by people demonstrating how smart they are to realize that the scale must be Fahrenheit instead of Celsius. (And I'm saying that as someone from Europe who grew up with Celsius.)

The precise C rating is in the first sentence of the article.
I read «C» and had another C in mind, and confirmed - most of us have read the Kerrigan and Ritchie, many of us in front of the title though "ok minus 32 times by 5 divided by 9..."
Probably important to note that the temperature reading hasn't been confirmed:

The intrigue: There are some questions about the validity of the temperature reading, however. Randy Cerveny, the World Meteorological Organization's rapporteur for weather records, told the Associated Press the reading is “suspicious, so we’re not going to make any immediate determination.”

“It doesn’t sound terribly plausible,” Cerveny said. “But we’re not going to dismiss it.”

Yes, OK, everyone, Fahrenheit, we get it, metric system, cut the smugness, Axios is a US-centric publication, discuss the issues.

Such as: the feedback mechanisms that may come into play here. Europe, broadly, hasn’t been big on AC. That may have to change, as 322 Kelvin is just not bearable. But that means more power use…which means more energy use…which probably comes from fossil fuels…which means more issues with climate change.

Depends where you live. Germany has done an idiotic 180 away from nuclear, but France is heavily into it. https://www.electricitymap.org/
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20 years ago we should have started moving to nuclear. 20 years from now we'll be saying the same thing.
It's not about being smug, put fucking European units in an article about European temperatures in a European location. Not everybody knows who or what Axios is, but we know what Europe and Sicily are.
Surely the publication's location and readership are the salient factors, and not the article's topic? Or should the article be in Italian because it is about Italy?
>Temperature of 48.8C sets new record high in Italy and Europe https://weirditaly.com/2021/08/11/temperature-of-48-8c-sets-...

Now there's a readable headline.

Sure, if you're in Italy. TFA is not.

Of course, TFA lists the Celsius measurement in the first sentence, but who reads articles these days?

"120 degrees" is completely meaningless. I pointed out that the title is shit. The first sentence explaining the shit title doesn't make the title less shit, right?
Meaningless, eh? An American news source puts up the title “Europe’s all-time heat record […] at nearly 120 degrees” What’s unclear about this? All of the context needed to properly interpret “120 degrees” comes right before it.

It’s only, as you say, “shit”, if you don’t like that America uses Fahrenheit. Or if you’re looking for a reason to “shit” on American press for using the Fahrenheit scale.

The English language is more widespread than Fahrenheit, so that's a weak comparison.
> 322 Kelvin

You know, I think this makes good sense. A degree can be celsius, or fahrenheit, but only a Kelvin is a Kelvin. So this could be unambiguously simplified in the future if we standardized on K.

Cool, what precisely is one degree K? What does it really mean?

The answer is as about as arbitrary as basing it on human comfort levels - it's originally based on boiling and freezing a specific composition of water at a specific pressure, then adjusted so the zero point is at a universal constant. That last is really the only meaningful part about it.

And practically speaking, the 0 to 100 C range is no longer even based on the actions of water - just as f is no longer based on human comfort.

> Cool, what precisely is one degree K? What does it really mean?

Well that's my point :). There are no degrees in K, there are just K. So at least we could remove that little bit of ambiguity.

Otherwise...

> about as arbitrary as basing it on human comfort levels

I agree. All scales are arbitrary.

I actually think F has one upside over both K and C -- more resolution means fractional degrees are rarely used. But that's just a nitpick.

Finally, the boss has arrived and told us what everyone should do.
> Yes, OK, everyone, Fahrenheit, we get it, metric system, cut the smugness, Axios is a US-centric publication, discuss the issues.

The Celcius reading is in the first sentence. Any gripes about this are on the headline alone.

There could be a hidden benefit in the adoption of ductless heat pumps. Not only are they more efficient than the systems they replace, but they can also provide heating. This would reduce the amount of oil or natural gas being used to heat homes.

Of course, this is also dependent on regional factors, and the ability to properly manage refrigerants... like everything in climate science, the feedback mechanisms are complex and may have unintuitive results :)

I bought a house in Seattle in March and immediately had the old, unmaintained fossil gas (aka 'natural gas') furnace ripped out and replaced with a heat pump. The heat pump worked better for warming my house from March - May than the furnace did, and has managed to make the unprecedented heat wave we experienced earlier in the summer bearable.

It wasn't cheap, but a lot of HVAC companies are offering great financing deals (like 0% interest for 36 months) for the new systems.

I'm not 100% sure about Washington, but I know Oregon has a whole program to incentivize the switch. (I wish they paid even more, but something's better than nothing...)

https://www.energytrust.org/

Might be more on topic to discuss the fact that the legitimacy of this reading is being disputed...

With that said, I'm just waiting for articles coming out tomorrow about how mediterranean forest fires are being triggered by climate change and some shmuck objecting that fires have existed since forever. Meanwhile, Russia burns away with a fury of a million suns.

> Yes, OK, everyone, Fahrenheit, we get it, metric system, cut the smugness, Axios is a US-centric publication, discuss the issues.

The entire article places Celcius first and Fahrenheit in brackets after it, but the title only gives Fahrenheit without saying that it is? It's quite obviously deliberate clickbait.

Apart from that; it's quite hard to find on this website that it is “U.S.A centric”, which certainly does not appear from the title or the u.r.i., and going to “About Axios” we find:

> We launched Axios in January 2017 based on this shared belief: The world needed smarter, more efficient coverage of the topics shaping the fast-changing world. We pledged to put our audience first, always.

Clearly they profile themselves as news for the world, not for the U.S.A., and so they use their units, but only inside of the article text.

Wait does anyone actually use Kelvin anywhere other than lab environment?
The IPCC is due to release a more comprehensive look at solar geoengineering in 2022. I say we start planning for it now, and be ready to roll it out if and when the climate models predict that it's safe enough to do so.
We've known for a while we can trivially block solar irradiation. What we don't know is if we can do it without making things worse. Geoengineering will be a lot more dangerous than just switching the world to nuclear power.
I would argue two points here:

- Switching the world to nuclear power would require global cooperation, hundreds of billions of dollars, and 20+ years of construction

- Things are already quite bad

Now, I don't want to start messing with the earth's albedo all willy nilly. But if our climate models suggest that this could be a viable stopgap that can be deployed for less than we spend on corn subsidies, then we should do it.

It seems no one read the article:

> The intrigue: There are some questions about the validity of the temperature reading, however. Randy Cerveny, the World Meteorological Organization's rapporteur for weather records, told the Associated Press the reading is “suspicious, so we’re not going to make any immediate determination.”

> “It doesn’t sound terribly plausible,” Cerveny said. “But we’re not going to dismiss it.”

The suspicion is between 47.0 and 48.8 degrees C, i.e. whether the 1977 heat record was beaten in a well-documented manner. There is no suspicion of scorching heat.
We need to mandate (by appropriately subsidizing improvements while taxing externalities) houses become more energy efficient at heating and cooling, so we can use as little AC and heating as possible and try to stop some of the runaway energy usage due to extreme weather events.

Install window fans, ceiling fans, attic fans, use evaporative coolers in dry climates, install H/ERVs. Change your AC and heating to a heat-pump model if you need both. Try to tap into geothermal where possible. If we continue treating home construction as copy-paste races to the bottom for cost then we'll see AC and heating usage climb through the room as extreme weather events become more frequent.

What's wrong with heavy AC/heating use during extreme weather events? You say runaway as if there's some sort of feedback loop.

Insulating houses is balance between cost of insulating and cost of heating/cooling. It's no use spending more on insulation than you save in power use. So "as much as possible" is a wrong goal, as well as being obviously unachievable.

> What's wrong with heavy AC/heating use during extreme weather events? You say runaway as if there's some sort of feedback loop.

Emissions is the feedback loop. I'm not talking about spending money. Using more heavy AC/heating during extreme weather events means we use more energy which makes it even harder to bring renewables online because as it is renewables aren't cutting it. Of course with money it makes no sense to spend money on insulation if you're only going to spend a fraction of that on AC costs for extreme events, but that's because externalities are not being passed on to emissions costs.

Extreme events are rare by definition so I don't think the energy use is significant in exacerbating climate change.
In many European countries AC in homes is a fairly new phenomenon (20 years or so).
Air conditioning accounts for less than 5% of the average home’s energy use in homes that use it (the US is a good source of data here, with hot summers and 90% of homes having air conditioning).

Sure, let’s make it more efficient where possible, but let’s stop pretending air conditioning is some evil we should feel guilty over.

If you want to really save energy, focus on the heating side. It takes far more energy to heat a house in the Midwest from 10F to 70F in the winter than the trivial amount it takes to cool a home from 90F to 70F for a few weeks in the summer.

> Air conditioning accounts for less than 5% of the average home’s energy use in homes that use it (the US is a good source of data here, with hot summers and 90% of homes having air conditioning)

The number is higher in places like the South. I don't mean to demonize AC; I think AC should be a fundamental part of living in high-humidity climates. I just think we need to do everything we can to make its use more efficient.

> If you want to really save energy, focus on the heating side. It takes far more energy to heat a house in the Midwest from 10F to 70F in the winter than the trivial amount it takes to cool a home from 90F to 70F for a few weeks in the summer.

Definitely! Heat pumps should be mandatory for heating. In many newer building codes they are, but it's too expensive for residents of older buildings to upgrade.

Wow, that's cool. Looks like we are coming out of the last ice age. We've been waiting 10,000 years for this. Finally.
Weird. 3 years ago, on the 2nd and 3rd of August in a particular area in northwest Spain I pass by at times, there were 53ºC. It felt like inescapable death, and it was 100% relative humidity to boot, and residences usually don't have anything like AC installed by default. The locals remember it well (just mention "those really hot days 3 years ago") and I remember the horror of seeing that number on the forecast and urban/house thermometers. And the bad luck to have to be there at that moment.

I wonder why it was not registered? In fact, the highest registered one is like 43ºC for that area, but I've been there other times with a "comfortable" 45 or more. Does it need the city hall to pursue registering? Can the city (a highly touristic one) ignore it to not scare away tourists? (there were like 2000 casualties just for two days, and "Death Valley but with humidity cranked up to 11" doesn't sound like a good slogan). That said, since that summer temperatures went back to below 30-ish in that region, it was clearly a freak occurrence, but I wonder why it's not officially acknowledged.

Because those thermometers are not calibrated and they are not meant to register official temperatures

They don´t follow the procedures for record temps