If I wanted to know about God, I'd ask Him. Humans are worthless--nobody knows Him.
25
At that time Jesus said in reply, 14 "I give praise to you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for although you have hidden these things from the wise and the learned you have revealed them to the childlike.
26
Yes, Father, such has been your gracious will.
27
All things have been handed over to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son wishes to reveal him.
28
15 "Come to me, all you who labor and are burdened, 16 and I will give you rest.
29
17 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find rest for your selves.
30
For my yoke is easy, and my burden light."
Notice that Jesus gave God very soffisticated praise. Praise Him for stuff like the smell of rain. Someone beat me to that, but I came up with "sand castles".
God says "humbled property regard youths breathe dwellest willeth
occurred fouls practised wills false valuable piece Another
pierced heavy "
I praise God for bone. Impressive. Sad day when God gets beat by synthetics. I heard of bone weapons. Wicked-cool. God said war was "servicemen competing". What 14-year-old doesn't love shooters.
5
And he said to them, "Suppose one of you has a friend to whom he goes at midnight and says, 'Friend, lend me three loaves of bread,
6
for a friend of mine has arrived at my house from a journey and I have nothing to offer him,'
7
and he says in reply from within, 'Do not bother me; the door has already been locked and my children and I are already in bed. I cannot get up to give you anything.'
8
I tell you, if he does not get up to give him the loaves because of their friendship, he will get up to give him whatever he needs because of his persistence.
9
"And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
10
For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
11
What father among you would hand his son a snake when he asks for a fish?
12
Or hand him a scorpion when he asks for an egg?
13
If you then, who are wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the Father in heaven give the holy Spirit 5 to those who ask him?"
I'm giving away secrets only a childlikde person would know -- asking for stuff is like a neighbor in the night -- very annoying.
And, little boys are made of snakes and snails and puppydog tails.
God says, "deformed edify shadows glowing Proconsul tilde avenues
voluptuous decked reclaiming diminisheth sooner effaces
triumph animate recognising Evangelists presently Information
diffused easier glances baptism Syrian rend relaxedly
imagination constrain "
You would have it that any arbitrary theologian is implicitly informed and unbiased?
This is not about religion, this is what people think about religion in a profession which stereotypically tries to keep religion at arm's length despite individual opinions.
I think stating in that way; "Science tries to keep religion at arm's length" makes science sound biased and negative. Really Science is just founded in evidence that can be observed and measured which doesn't mix with faith based beliefs nor should it.
"This is not about religion, this is what people think about religion"
...
Deny that the everything from the title of the piece to the emphasis placed on several of the speakers being Nobel Laureates was designed as an attempt to add an air of credibility to the views expressed.
Follow that with an assertion that individuals who are not themselves spiritual, most of which freely admit having little or no education on or experience with spiritual matters are qualified in any way to speak on spiritual matters.
I find it interesting that the Christian interpretation of God is invariably singled out for criticism by academics, yet I haven't encountered any panel discussions on how Buddhism or Taoism are irrelevant superstitions. Someone tell me that doesn't smack of religious persecution, please.
In the mean time Academics (taken in aggregate) don't seem to understand that part of the reason the majority of the population (in the US anyway, I can't comment on other parts of the world) are inherently skeptical of the Academic community is folks "don't cotton well to having some ivory tower egg-head tell them they're a bunch of superstitious nutjobs".
Follow that with an assertion that individuals who are not themselves spiritual, most of which freely admit having little or no education on or experience with spiritual matters are qualified in any way to speak on spiritual matters.
I'd advise you to read The Courtier's Reply. Not that it covers everything you mentioned, but it is somewhat relevant.
People are much more likely to criticize what they see constantly around them. In a good portion of the world, Christianity is far more visible than Buddhism or Taoism. Ergo, Christianity gets criticized.
They may be world-renowned scientists and philosophers but none says anything that you wouldn't get by asking a random bunch of people on the street the same question. They also seem to share a Abrahamic view of God and religion.
I'm always surprised at the obsession that many atheists have with dumping on religion. Atheism in itself has taken on the characteristics of the very religions they "preach" against all too often. Not to say there aren't quiet, private atheists (just like there are quiet, private people with religion), but they are particularly vocal in the nerd centers of the intertubes (See the religion and atheism sub-reddits on Reddit for a laugh).
I used to get annoyed with pushy religious people, now I get to wade up to my neck in pushy atheists.
The problem with /r/atheism is not that it is full of pushy atheists. The problem is that it is full of pushy atheists with stupid arguments. There is an extensive body of sophisticated, logical, and convincing arguments for atheism from some of the deepest thinkers Man has produced. You won't find those on /r/atheism. Instead, you find naive and trivial arguments.
But why even explain the arguments to others that may be religious (or vice-versa for religious people to atheists)? If it's what you believe, why not just leave it at that and keep it to yourself? Of course, when I say this, I direct it at Atheists AND Religious people.
I just never saw the need to convince or push other people to believe the same things you do. We can't even begin to fully understand the complexity that is the universe, science and religion are both continuously wrong, and we are imperfect beings.
Some of these conversations strike me as a very Western view-point of religion, God and theism/atheism.
Religions like Buddhism, Jainism, Advaita Vedanta, Taoism and many eastern 'mystical' traditions don't actually talk about creator deities and the other meta-physics to which these scientists are non-believers.
I've always wondered why people feel they are able to hold constructive conversations about "God" without first having a mutual understanding of what the word means.
19 comments
[ 5.1 ms ] story [ 58.6 ms ] thread25 At that time Jesus said in reply, 14 "I give praise to you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for although you have hidden these things from the wise and the learned you have revealed them to the childlike. 26 Yes, Father, such has been your gracious will. 27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son wishes to reveal him. 28 15 "Come to me, all you who labor and are burdened, 16 and I will give you rest. 29 17 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find rest for your selves. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden light."
Notice that Jesus gave God very soffisticated praise. Praise Him for stuff like the smell of rain. Someone beat me to that, but I came up with "sand castles".
God says "humbled property regard youths breathe dwellest willeth occurred fouls practised wills false valuable piece Another pierced heavy "
I praise God for bone. Impressive. Sad day when God gets beat by synthetics. I heard of bone weapons. Wicked-cool. God said war was "servicemen competing". What 14-year-old doesn't love shooters.
5 And he said to them, "Suppose one of you has a friend to whom he goes at midnight and says, 'Friend, lend me three loaves of bread, 6 for a friend of mine has arrived at my house from a journey and I have nothing to offer him,' 7 and he says in reply from within, 'Do not bother me; the door has already been locked and my children and I are already in bed. I cannot get up to give you anything.' 8 I tell you, if he does not get up to give him the loaves because of their friendship, he will get up to give him whatever he needs because of his persistence. 9 "And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. 11 What father among you would hand his son a snake when he asks for a fish? 12 Or hand him a scorpion when he asks for an egg? 13 If you then, who are wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the Father in heaven give the holy Spirit 5 to those who ask him?"
I'm giving away secrets only a childlikde person would know -- asking for stuff is like a neighbor in the night -- very annoying.
And, little boys are made of snakes and snails and puppydog tails.
God says, "deformed edify shadows glowing Proconsul tilde avenues voluptuous decked reclaiming diminisheth sooner effaces triumph animate recognising Evangelists presently Information diffused easier glances baptism Syrian rend relaxedly imagination constrain "
Burn, karma, burn.
This is not about religion, this is what people think about religion in a profession which stereotypically tries to keep religion at arm's length despite individual opinions.
...
Deny that the everything from the title of the piece to the emphasis placed on several of the speakers being Nobel Laureates was designed as an attempt to add an air of credibility to the views expressed.
Follow that with an assertion that individuals who are not themselves spiritual, most of which freely admit having little or no education on or experience with spiritual matters are qualified in any way to speak on spiritual matters.
I find it interesting that the Christian interpretation of God is invariably singled out for criticism by academics, yet I haven't encountered any panel discussions on how Buddhism or Taoism are irrelevant superstitions. Someone tell me that doesn't smack of religious persecution, please.
In the mean time Academics (taken in aggregate) don't seem to understand that part of the reason the majority of the population (in the US anyway, I can't comment on other parts of the world) are inherently skeptical of the Academic community is folks "don't cotton well to having some ivory tower egg-head tell them they're a bunch of superstitious nutjobs".
I'd advise you to read The Courtier's Reply. Not that it covers everything you mentioned, but it is somewhat relevant.
People are much more likely to criticize what they see constantly around them. In a good portion of the world, Christianity is far more visible than Buddhism or Taoism. Ergo, Christianity gets criticized.
To me the best argument for an intelligent creator is the simulation argument (see http://www.simulation-argument.com/), to which there is some vaguely supportive evidence - eg. http://is.gd/iv04do.
I used to get annoyed with pushy religious people, now I get to wade up to my neck in pushy atheists.
I just never saw the need to convince or push other people to believe the same things you do. We can't even begin to fully understand the complexity that is the universe, science and religion are both continuously wrong, and we are imperfect beings.
We are blind leading blind.
"So...what does skepticism offer?"
"A wondrous, beautiful, doesn't-give-a-shit-about-you cosmos."
(and yes, anyone participating in this thread is just asking to get karma burn)
Religions like Buddhism, Jainism, Advaita Vedanta, Taoism and many eastern 'mystical' traditions don't actually talk about creator deities and the other meta-physics to which these scientists are non-believers.
Alan Guth sort of addresses this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s47ArcQL-XQ#t=4m04s