Ask HN: Desperate Python Hacker Seeking Help and Suggestions

Why are you not at PyOhio? The west michigan group carpolled. Broadly speaking: go to python meetups, network.

I realize you're using a new HN account, possibly throw-away, or you may actually be new here. At the start of every month on HN is a "Who's Hiring MM YYYY" thread (which includes remote work), and a "Freelancer/Seeking Freelancer" thread.

The most recent were on July 1st, and on Monday new ones for August will be posted. The most recent are linked below, but keep your eyes open for Monday.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2719028

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2719083

good luck!

Is moving out of the question?

Have you considered a drastic move to SF, NYC, Boston, or another startup hotspot? Having no money in Michigan is no better than having no money in a more expensive city, so cost of living shouldn't even be a factor here.

Also, don't limit yourself to Python / C. Stress that you're able and willing to learn any programming language and solve any challenge that comes your way. I know there isn't a single unemployed Ruby developer in chicago, thanks to Groupon.

Finding a job as a developer is actually not that hard, in this economy. Be thankful you're in this industry and not, say, the automotive industry.

  > My biggest pet peeve about HN? The automatic assumption
  > that if you're not looking to start your own company,
  > you're a worthless idiot.

Move.

Really.

SFO, NYC, Boston, Atlanta, all need tons of work.

Do you have to stay in the area? Would you be willing to relocate?

I agree that any developer meetings (not just python) would be good for networking.

Wait, why are you mentioning FizzBuzz? It's like saying "I can walk in many ways".

Other than the suggestions to move, why don't you have any industry connections in your area? Go to networking events, meetups, conferences, etc.

If you can't find any get on meetup.com and create a Python meetup. Even if you get 1 person to come you can say you organized the local meetup group.

Try temp agencies and contract agencies. I'd be shocked if they don't pick you up. I've been told they are pretty desperate for warm bodies right now and know several people that have gone that route out of desperation. Sure it is not permanent or glamorous but it will pay the bills.

elance.com web design. you can get jobs filling out wordpress themes and probably make $1,000 a month at least

There are plenty of people in Seattle (and I'm sure most big cities) having a really tough time finding people to hire. In Seattle, I know of several companies looking for python devs.

As other people here are stating, you need to move.

Repeating the advice of others to move, if only in the hope that the repetition will alude to the validation of said advice.

I usually don't have a good word to say about recruiters but in cases like yours it might be worth contacting a few who work in one of the hubs you could move to, and have them look at your resume. They'll help you brush it up if needed but more importantly help you validate that there are employers looking for your skill set (because if they don't think they can place you, they won't spend any time with you).

Have them set up 3 or 4 interviews and scrape together the fare to come here and you might not need the return ticket. Just don't indicate to them that you are desperate but white-lie and tell them that you just want to relocate to SF/NY/etc.

BTW I moved to SF from a different country (UK) 5 years ago because it is where I needed to be for my career - it was hard but I did it and it is one of the best decisions I made. The winters are better here too! :)

"5 years C# experience,"

/\ Try bending the truth.

Firstly you'll need different CVs depending on the job you are going for. So take the one saying "Did python for 5 years at XYZ corp" and change it to "Did python and C# for 5 years at XYZ corp" - This should get you past the HR gatekeepers and in the meantime you just have to skill up on c#. When you reach the interview with technical people they will be more reasonable - providing you are actually comfortable with c#.

Have you tried looking through some of the more recent "Who's Hiring" threads here on HN?

Here's the most recent one from June, looking for freelancers (I'm not sure if a July one was posted):

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2607058

And here's a list of some more recent threads:

http://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=whoishiring

I imagine you're pretty stressed out, but hang in there, and good luck.

(Woops – looks like jcr beat me to it. His/her comment has even more recent information.)

I agree with some people that a move might be your best bet, though from your post its not obvious if there is anything (such as family) keeping you from moving. I think its a shame that oDesk did not work out for you - maybe try another service such as eLance where I personally feel (as someone who employs via these services) that a better quality of person is found on there. Yes there is the chance of competing against lower waged people in other countries, however I personally employ based on skills and communication and these days the costs are not as wide as they once were.

I am curious as to why you have not found something locally. Surely there are groups you can join, either on or offline, which would help you.

I hope that some of the comments on here will help you or spur you into some action

Maybe being blunt, but if you're seriously about to be out of house and home because you can't find a job, you need to lower your fence. Aspiring to be a programmer/hacker/startup guy is great, but even a job stacking shelves in a shop would give you enough money to survive on while you continue looking for a job you'd enjoy (Or working on your own projects). Put it this way, living on the street gives you hardly any chance of getting somewhere you want to be. Having a house and a crappy job for a few years while you get back on your feet is a much better choice.

Just moved from Grand Rapids, and can say there is a very small but growing startup scene in Grand Rapids.

Although I didn't get to check it out, there is a great Python User Group that meets regularly (I believe every other Monday) at various locations in GR, usually at Calvin College. Join the group and they'll send out regular updates. Ben Rousch is the contact there, he also runs the local Web Dev User group. I've exchanged emails with him before, he is a great guy and very helpful. It might not hurt to get in touch with him.

More importantly, just recently someone put up a job posting on the group looking for a python/django programmer. I suggest you check it out. http://www.fiveq.com/blog/employment/fiveq-employment-opport...

It might not hurt to drop into Atomic Object, they're growing and usually hiring as well: http://www.atomicobject.com/pages/Working+at+Atomic+Object

If I can be any help to you, perhaps putting you in contact with other people then let me know. My email is listed on my profile page.

Best of luck.

I feel like I was in a similar position. My advice is gonna suck, but you should really try to start working at a grocery store/shitty party time jobs/borrow or something to save up about $2000 and flat out move. That will be enough to get you to the bay area, find a job, and live for about a month, maybe even get a room.

If you come to SF, you'll be able to find a job doing something somewhere to get off the ground. I promise you this.

As someone born and raised in Michigan and whose partner was also born and raised in Michigan, my advice is that other than visiting grandparents and hiking and touring breweries, you will find your opportunities tremendously expanded by as quickly as possible getting the fuck out of Michigan.

A few ideas

1. Consider where it is going wrong. Are you getting interviews for things you are suitable for? Are you getting knocked back at the interview stage? i.e. it it you CV that needs sorting out, or the interview? Or is it that there is nothing that matches your skills? Regardless of anything I would get someone else to give you feedback on your CV.

2. Find companies using the technologies you use and ring them up to see if they have any work available, rather than waiting for adverts.

3. Consider being a tester. It is rare to find a good tech skilled tester / QA and they are valuable.

4. Get the skills for the jobs that are available. Frankly if you are desperate then put 5 years of C# on your CV and work night and day building something in C#.

There are a number of open source Python projects that have vendors associated with them (or large corporate users). OpenStack is one such example, but there's also various scientific libraries, e.g., NumPy/scipy that may better suited to your background. Typically open source-heavy companies are more open to remote/distributed work: I am not saying working remotely full-time, but something along the lines of working on site for the first six months (to prove yourself) and then working remotely most of the time/flying in on site for one week a month.

Consider this: identify several such projects along with the companies that are heavily involved in these projects open source communities, i.e., ones that are actually contributing and/or heavily modifying them.

First, send a patch, do something to "get your feet wet". Then pick a substantial sub-project (not something trivial), start contributing to it and at the mean time contact the engineer/managers working at associated companies (as not to be trapped in the HR resume black-hole). In the interview, at least mention the work you're doing.

Chances are they will be willing to fly you out to interview and help relocate. Be honest with them and say that (due to family reason) you'll need to at the very least travel.

In the worst case, you could do the reverse of working remotely/visiting the office frequently: rent a room in the remote area, work in the office most of the time, travel to Michigan for weekends/a week at a time: this will be difficult, but at the very least you'll be able to establish more "formal" experience and industry connections that you could translate into a more sustainable arrangement later (don't, however, start a position knowing that you won't be able to stick for at least a year and a half to two years: that would not very ethical, especially since you're looking for a company that will invest in your career). Of course, some family situations, e.g., elder care won't allow for that. In that case, still the advice applies: you're far more likely to find a remote-work scenario in an open-source related company than elsewhere.

My advice. Don't do contract freelance work. It is risky in that if you're not a good business person, you will string yourself along under the illusion of paying the bills. But you'll slowly be moving backward as projects take longer than you expect, you undercharge, etc..

You really may need to uproot your family. I know that the tech economy is booming in several major urban areas. I'm up in Toronto, and have headhunters calling me like crazy. There is a dearth of programming talent. I know several people in San Francisco and they say that the valley has the same problem.

The situation is so desperate that I know several companies that would entertain hiring somebody in Michigan to do work for them remotely. It might take a trip up to Toronto to meet with some folks, but that's just a several hour drive.

  > start attending some meet-ups

Don't underestimate the power of 'cold-calling.' While it's terrifying for people not used it to it, you'd be surprised how friendly people are when contacted out of the blue for a legitimate question. Find some developers on open source projects you like, see where they work (either location-wise or company-wise) and send them an e-mail saying "Hey, I wanted to thank you for writing/contributing to the X software package. I've noticed you live in / work at Y; I am currently seeking a development job in Python or C and would be interested in moving there/working there. Do you happen to know of any opportunities available? If not, again accept my thanks for X software." Don't attach a resume, if the person is responsive the first thing they will do is ask for one.

The key here is to actually want to move to that area, work with that company (whether it's 10 or 10,000), or work in that field. People detect insincerity relatively easily, don't contact people unless you actually want to work with them as opposed to anybody. On the flip side, never let yourself be discouraged by thinking "nah, I'm not good enough for them." The worse thing that happens is the person doesn't respond; this may feel bad but you end up with a thicker skin and learn how to do it better the next time.

Also: do not spam. Again with the insincerity thing above: this technique only works if you want to work with them instead of anybody, and I promise you they can pick up on that.

The power of advertising at work! At the Perl Lightning Talks on Thursday at OSCON there were dueling advertisements for Grant Street Group and Booking.com. Grant Street Group does remote work out of Pittsburgh and Booking.com is based out of Amsterdam (but they will pay for relocation).

Granted these are both Perl-oriented jobs, but if you really are 'at the end of your rope' then I would make an attempt.

[I say the power of advertising at work because they both successfully pimped their employers]