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Developer's Union

8 points by buzzzlight ↗ HN
After hearing dozens of horrors stories from the Mac App Store/Android/Amazon/Google developers lately, I got an idea for a union that would have real collective bargaining power, because it would provide a library with an encrypted kill switch.

If Apple or any other company refused to play ball on something, all of the apps under the union could vote to be shut down for a day, effectively going on strike.

Developers would enjoy the privileges of membership in the union, because their support calls would get answered and any individual threats of takedown or lawsuit would face the consequences of union attention.

Apps could even be certified as "Fair Made" so users could find "sustainable" apps.

Maybe there would be other functions, to provide independent news on the state of development and any shenanigans like attacks on net neutrality or abuse of the patent system.

All that is missing is support from companies that have achieved success, such as Rovio (of Angry Birds fame), PopCap and humblebundle.com.

An organization like this will be protected under the National Labor Relations Act:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Labor_Relations_Act

I did a quick search on developer unions here and all I found was this:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2278166

So my question is, where do we go from here?

9 comments

[ 1.5 ms ] story [ 32.4 ms ] thread
hcho
Let's say, my app is making me $1000 a day. Apple wrongs one of the members, and union decides to strike. That will mean $1000/day in lost revenues. No thanks. I assume anyone with a slightly successful app will say "no thanks" too.

Unions only work when the members are within a narrow bracket of income.

buzzzlight
For me personally, there is a moral code beyond money. I think that when asked "would you rather make more money if you knew you were participating in something unscrupulous?", we tend to be concerned about what it would do to other people. So are we aligned with management or labor in this case? Are we willing to stand up for what we believe in?
theunraveler
I really disagree with this.

1. Lost wages are one of the reason unions maintain a "strike fund" or start collection pools.

2. An injury to one is an injury to all. A company pulling some funny business that costs developer A $1000 could very well do the same thing to developer B. It is, then, worth developer B's temporary loss of income to defend his/her interests in the long term. ALL workers lose when SOME workers decide to trade temporary gain for long-term power.

hcho
You'll probably find out that many business owners would rather invest tjeir money in creating alternative revenue streams than paying into a strike fund.
theunraveler
That's why unions are for workers, not employers :-)
hcho
App developers are businesses, not workers.
theunraveler
That all depends on what illusions you have about how the market works. I would claim that a single app developer is still subject market concerns. Oftentimes developers are hired by bigger companies to do work, and in that case there is a typical "boss/worker" relationship, wherein they retain the right to fire you for any reason, or no reason whatsoever.

In short, what I would like to see is NOT a "professional association" (like Chamber of Commerce) that advances the interests of business, but rather a union that protects the rights of working people. The union would, ideally, ally itself with other organizations of working people to not just fight for our slice of the pie, but for every worker's slice.

theunraveler
I think this would be really useful. With those companies perpetually encroaching on our privacy and the freedom of the internet, such leverage would be really good to have.

Just a few quick notes on unions in general:

1. Even though union membership and participation is covered under the NLRA, companies break the law all the time. Organizers are fired and retaliated against for union activity all the time. The fact is that the labor board (the government body that arbitrates labor disputes) is too weak and the penalties for breaking labor laws for companies too lax that it is often work the small amount of hassle for a company to break a union illegally. This has been shown in many, many union recognition struggles. Because of this, a unions power is not through the laws that "protect" it, but in the ability of its member to take action and force the company to meet demands, financially and socially.

2. Assuming the first point, we must have a discussion to determine where exactly our power can be exerted. Your idea of the "kill switch" is right on; essentially, if a company stiffs a developer, the internet as we all know it could shut down temporarily.

3. There are really bad ass unions out there that are in to organizing groups of workers that other unions deem "unorganizable". Developers, I would think, are one such group, considering our geographic and occupational spread. One such union is the IWW (iww.org). I'm a member, and would really strongly encourage affiliating with them.

4. Actually, I think solidarity with the Foxconn workers in China might be a good first campaign.

So, yeah, I really love this idea and am willing to do the work to make it happen. IRC, anyone?

a3camero
One problem is that your prospective union members are actually competitors who make money by grabbing a slice of the customer market, not the 30% that Apple takes off the top of the whole market. There is no manager/employee relationship. I think you're thinking of a trade association or federation that lobbies for change rather than a union model.